Author Topic: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?  (Read 15506 times)

youandme

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #75 on: September 30, 2007, 09:30:12 AM »
lol.  You should sit this one out.  It's a little over your head.  Go work on your cooking recipes.  http://www.amazon.com/Cooking-Basics-Dummies/dp/0764572067/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-2747542-9259361?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1191114537&sr=8-1

Or maybe you should continue to focus on the faked moon landing conspiracy.

 


You know it's easier to believe than it is to think....think about this for a minute.

Dos Equis

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #76 on: September 30, 2007, 09:04:23 PM »

You know it's easier to believe than it is to think....think about this for a minute.

It is easy to believe what I see.

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #77 on: September 30, 2007, 09:09:27 PM »
To pick on my comments about Iran hating us because we exist, that comment is based in part on a conversation I had with someone who has spent a lot of time in the Middle East.  He explained to me that much of Islam believes the West is evil.  They believe our lifestyle is immoral.  They hate our way of life.  The really hate our support of Israel.  There is really nothing we can do to change this.  They have been breeding their children to hate the U.S., including in places like Iran.  So, they do in fact hate us because we exist--based on the way we live our lives and who we support. 

No they don't care about places like Portugal.  They wouldn't care about us either if the U.S. was the size of Delaware.  There are undoubtedly other places in the world with systems and lifestyles just like ours, but they are not a target, because they have no influence and probably don't support Israel. 

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #78 on: September 30, 2007, 09:17:42 PM »
To pick on my comments about Iran hating us because we exist, that comment is based in part on a conversation I had with someone who has spent a lot of time in the Middle East.  He explained to me that much of Islam believes the West is evil.  They believe our lifestyle is immoral.  They hate our way of life.  The really hate our support of Israel.  There is really nothing we can do to change this.  They have been breeding their children to hate the U.S., including in places like Iran.  So, they do in fact hate us because we exist--based on the way we live our lives and who we support. 

No they don't care about places like Portugal.  They wouldn't care about us either if the U.S. was the size of Delaware.  There are undoubtedly other places in the world with systems and lifestyles just like ours, but they are not a target, because they have no influence and probably don't support Israel. 


IMO, sustained hate can only occur when the target of that hatred is present.  There is no way that hatred for an anonymous set of strangers lasts 60 years.  It's only because of our presence there, that they are able to actually conceptualize who they hate.

Why didn't we suffer terror attacks at home in the 50? 60s? 70s? 80s?  Thye might have textbook disliked us, but it's only when they are able to SEE sanctions killing their own kind.  When they are able to SEE US troops in their streets.  When they are able to look at the US flag flying over their oil pipeline.

I'm all for bombing iran and taking their oil, don't mistake me for a lib or whatever.

I just think that in order for an entire generation of a billion people to hate us - many of them willing to blow themselves up over it - well - you cannot blame islam, because islamic extremism at this level is new.  Why didn't they kill westerners for so many centuries?  Why the fevered pitch now?

bb- Do you honestly believe that 1) our managing so much oil there 2) our invasion of iraa 3) our threatening iran, has NOTHING to do with why they hate us?

Dos Equis

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #79 on: September 30, 2007, 10:00:20 PM »
IMO, sustained hate can only occur when the target of that hatred is present.  There is no way that hatred for an anonymous set of strangers lasts 60 years.  It's only because of our presence there, that they are able to actually conceptualize who they hate.

Why didn't we suffer terror attacks at home in the 50? 60s? 70s? 80s?  Thye might have textbook disliked us, but it's only when they are able to SEE sanctions killing their own kind.  When they are able to SEE US troops in their streets.  When they are able to look at the US flag flying over their oil pipeline.

I'm all for bombing iran and taking their oil, don't mistake me for a lib or whatever.

I just think that in order for an entire generation of a billion people to hate us - many of them willing to blow themselves up over it - well - you cannot blame islam, because islamic extremism at this level is new.  Why didn't they kill westerners for so many centuries?  Why the fevered pitch now?

bb- Do you honestly believe that 1) our managing so much oil there 2) our invasion of iraa 3) our threatening iran, has NOTHING to do with why they hate us?

I think the only reasons we didn't have terrorist attacks 50 years ago are we are an ocean away and they simply were not sophisticated enough.  They have also changed.  Suicide terrorists were not nearly as common 50 years ago.  I believe that if we removed every single American service member from the Middle East, they would still hate us.  They have hated us regardless of who are president was and regardless of which party was in control. 

In response to your questions:

1.  The U.S. government is not managing oil in Iran, which is the subject of this thread.  I'm unaware of the U.S. government managing oil in Iraq either.   

2.  If you meant to say Iraq, no I don't believe they started hating us in 2002.  I recall seeing Iranian children burn American flags and chant "death to America" about 25 years ago. 

3.  As I said, their hatred predates our threats by many years. 

Now, does our presence there and threatened military action help fuel preexisting hatred?  Yes.   

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #80 on: October 01, 2007, 04:37:24 AM »
1.  The U.S. government is not managing oil in Iran, which is the subject of this thread.  I'm unaware of the U.S. government managing oil in Iraq either.  


I can't respond muich now - but - the Hunt Corp of texas just signed all iraqi oil exploration rights of the kurds.  no matter what govt is in place, the us-based firm now controls all oil and revenue, and pays the kurds a stipend for what they find once they recoup their costs for installing a pipeline. 

IMO, this was the goal all along, and I"m a-okay with it lol... but we can no longer say "it's not about the oil" - cause we sure didn't let the lowest bidder have that contract.  We told them which company would be doing it.

Decker

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #81 on: October 01, 2007, 06:41:16 AM »
The U.S. experts say that metal disks used in the bombs are precision-engineered and bear Iranian serial numbers. And, U.S. officials say, the EFPs are known to have been used only by Shiites — the majority religion in Iran.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7371750

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/iran-in-iraq/?resultpage=1%26


The last one is the Official DOD slideshow brief to media about Iranian involment in Iraq.
That may be so but there are also Russian weapons being used in Iraq. 

Are the Russians arming the insurgents too?

Or does the Black Market sell whatever items it may have?

The same goes for British weapons.

Decker

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #82 on: October 01, 2007, 06:46:25 AM »
Just a point, this is the same bullshit Bush pulled with Iraq. 

Remember the ironclad UN presentation Powell gave which sealed the deal for invasion of Iraq?

The obvious WMDs and ongoing working relationship with Al Qaeda was proven for many by a proponderance of the evidence.

Bush and his handpicked experts cannot be trusted.

They've proven that conclusively.

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #83 on: October 01, 2007, 06:53:17 AM »
I'm back now.

OKay, yes, we are now managing the top third of Iraqi oil.  And we're trying to split up Iraq into 3 states (against their wishes) so we can have more control over all 3 of the chunks when it comes to decision making - hence why al-maliki is going apeshit this morning, complaining about the congressional resolution to split iraq.

The claim that Iran's weapons are being used - being enough to go to war - well, we all know it's just a pretext.  We're going to bomb the shit out of them very soon.  THe goal, as smart people have been saying for the last 2 years, is oil.  We WILL be managing Iranian oil inside of 5 years.  If you don't believe me, go back 2 years to my posts saying we will be managing Iraqi oil.  Then realize that yes, it happened lol.  The WMD, the insurgents - those are small things that nations normally don't declare war for... unless of course, there is 50 tril in oil under the nation - then you attack them by all means.

So when you say:
1.  The U.S. government is not managing oil in Iran, which is the subject of this thread.  I'm unaware of the U.S. government managing oil in Iraq either.  
Realize that
1) we control oil-ruch kurdish iraq's oil now.
2) we are splitting the nation up to do the same to the rest of them - requirement as kurd oil is now NO LONGER controlled by central iraqi govt!
3) if/when we bomb iran, we'll be "helping" them rebuild their oil infrastructure, using US firms, just like we're doing in iraq.
4) We own all afghan oil pipelines to the caspian sea now, and have for years since invading.  We just took the bitch over.  Karzai, the man we installed as president, was an Bush I oil executive in Unocal.  Making sense yet? ;) LOL

Decker

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #84 on: October 01, 2007, 07:29:39 AM »
I'm back now.

OKay, yes, we are now managing the top third of Iraqi oil.  And we're trying to split up Iraq into 3 states (against their wishes) so we can have more control over all 3 of the chunks when it comes to decision making - hence why al-maliki is going apeshit this morning, complaining about the congressional resolution to split iraq.

The claim that Iran's weapons are being used - being enough to go to war - well, we all know it's just a pretext.  We're going to bomb the shit out of them very soon.  THe goal, as smart people have been saying for the last 2 years, is oil.  We WILL be managing Iranian oil inside of 5 years.  If you don't believe me, go back 2 years to my posts saying we will be managing Iraqi oil.  Then realize that yes, it happened lol.  The WMD, the insurgents - those are small things that nations normally don't declare war for... unless of course, there is 50 tril in oil under the nation - then you attack them by all means.

So when you say:Realize that
1) we control oil-ruch kurdish iraq's oil now.
2) we are splitting the nation up to do the same to the rest of them - requirement as kurd oil is now NO LONGER controlled by central iraqi govt!
3) if/when we bomb iran, we'll be "helping" them rebuild their oil infrastructure, using US firms, just like we're doing in iraq.
4) We own all afghan oil pipelines to the caspian sea now, and have for years since invading.  We just took the bitch over.  Karzai, the man we installed as president, was an Bush I oil executive in Unocal.  Making sense yet? ;) LOL
You are a well-read guy.  And I respect that.  However, I find your acceptance of the invasion of Iraq/Iran for oil repulsive.  I still believe in fighting the good fight where people count for something in this world.

Maybe someday I will become as cynical as you.  But not today.

The apparatus of the law, in the UN's case, comprehends a type of morality that still has respect for human life.  It's a weak organization and in America we have a political faction (Bush republicans) that would love to see it disappear b/c it is a hindrance to their plans to kill more people for oil.  It can be shown under International law that the Bush Administration has engaged in war crimes.  That's a messy sticking point for this true blue administration.

As for the political reality of plunder for oil, do you think that the Russians (Iran's ally) already cut a deal with the US to divide up Iranian oil or do you think that this could become contentious btn the two superpowers?

headhuntersix

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #85 on: October 01, 2007, 07:35:10 AM »
That was a Michael Moore propaganda story...over.  Karzai, the man we installed as president, was an Bush I oil executive in Unocal.....When did he have time for that? International Law...when every other country follows it, then get back to me. Those that follow it, hide behind it because they can't do anything else. They have seen the rise of the US and their own power diminish.
L

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #86 on: October 01, 2007, 08:33:59 AM »
That was a Michael Moore propaganda story...over.  Karzai, the man we installed as president, was an Bush I oil executive in Unocal.....When did he have time for that? International Law...when every other country follows it, then get back to me. Those that follow it, hide behind it because they can't do anything else. They have seen the rise of the US and their own power diminish.

LOL!  Karzai developed the pipeline plan at Unocal thru 98.  The taleban pulled the plug in july 2001 and chose an argentian firm, keeping out 43 million deposit.  Fuckers.  Remember the 'choose a carpet of gold, or carpet of bombs' thing?  LOL... The pipeline plans stayed active thru the invasion and his installation.  Then in 2002 he selected Unocal as the firm to build the pipeline, and used afghan reconstruction funds to do it. 

Colossal ownage that we later saw quite similarly with cheney/haliburton. 

what part of that is facually incorrect, hh6?

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #87 on: October 01, 2007, 08:37:26 AM »
You are a well-read guy.  And I respect that.  However, I find your acceptance of the invasion of Iraq/Iran for oil repulsive.  I still believe in fighting the good fight where people count for something in this world.

Maybe someday I will become as cynical as you.  But not today.

The apparatus of the law, in the UN's case, comprehends a type of morality that still has respect for human life.  It's a weak organization and in America we have a political faction (Bush republicans) that would love to see it disappear b/c it is a hindrance to their plans to kill more people for oil.  It can be shown under International law that the Bush Administration has engaged in war crimes.  That's a messy sticking point for this true blue administration.

As for the political reality of plunder for oil, do you think that the Russians (Iran's ally) already cut a deal with the US to divide up Iranian oil or do you think that this could become contentious btn the two superpowers?

decker, it was only last week that you discovered that stock trading before 9/11 shows that some people knew it was going to happen.  I'd encourage you to read more.  The more I read, the more it made me sick.  I don't believe there is a good fight to fight anymore.  There is no respect for life.  There is no right/wrong - there is only a set of states vying for resources following utilitarian belief systems, using war and fear as a tool in this war.  Russia knows it - and you've heard them leak all sorts of stuff about us invading Iran.  They don't like it.  But what can they do?  They can buddy up with china and make the alliance with Iran as they did.  They're a dangerous timebomb.  But how can they stop us from hitting iran after the next 'shady' incident?  We have forces and boats there.  We'll have half their army pinkmisted before anyone knows what happened.  It's life, and it's unstoppable.  All we can do it watch.

headhuntersix

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #88 on: October 01, 2007, 09:00:20 AM »
LOL!  Karzai developed the pipeline plan at Unocal thru 98.  The taleban pulled the plug in july 2001 and chose an argentian firm, keeping out 43 million deposit.  Fuckers.  Remember the 'choose a carpet of gold, or carpet of bombs' thing?  LOL... The pipeline plans stayed active thru the invasion and his installation.  Then in 2002 he selected Unocal as the firm to build the pipeline, and used afghan reconstruction funds to do it. 

Colossal ownage that we later saw quite similarly with cheney/haliburton. 

what part of that is facually incorrect, hh6?





Look...based on his Bio and alot of other facts..I would need to see where he worked at UNOCAL. He had close ties with the CIA and his point of contact with the CIA was a guy who had contacts with the current administration.


Some stuff.....
According to Fahrenheit, Afghanistan's new President, Hamid Karzai, was a Unocal consultant. This is false. Sumana Chatterjee and David Goldstein, "A lowdown on the facts behind the allegations in 'Fahrenheit 9/11'," Knight-Ridder newspapers, July 2, 2004. The origin of the claim appears to be a December 6, 2001 story in the center-left French newspaper Le Monde. The story does not cite any source for its claim. (The story is available on-line from Le Monde's website; registration and payment are required.) Unocal has denied that Karzai was ever a consultant.


Hamed Karzai, 44, comes from a respectable family, which has influence in the ranks of Pashtuns, who make up the majority in Afghanistan. His grandfather was speaker of the parliament in the monarchical era. On the other hand, his father was a deputy and assumed several high-level posts during the rule of King Mohammad Zaher Shah. Hamed Karzai's relationship with the Americans started in the mid-1980s, when he was living in Pakistan during the years of Afghan jihad against the Soviets. At the time, he acted as an intermediary and link between the groups of Afghan mojahedin [fighters] and the Americans. As a result, he helped secure the delivery of various kinds of weapons and aid to those mojahedin. Karzai's relationship with the CIA started at that time, since the CIA was a major party that was assigned to follow up the Afghan file.

Since then, Karzai's ties with the Americans have not been interrupted. At the same time, he established ties with the British and other European and international sides, especially after he became deputy foreign minister in 1992 in the wake of the Afghan mojahedin's assumption of power and the overthrow of the pro-Moscow Najibollah regime. Karzai found no contradiction between his ties with the Americans and his support for the Taleban movement as of 1994, when the Americans had - secretly and through the Pakistanis - supported the Taleban's assumption of power to put an end to the civil war and the actual partition of Afghanistan due to the failure of Borhanoddin Rabbani's experience in ruling the country. At the time, Karzai worked as a consultant for the huge US oil group Unocal, which had supported the Taleban movement and sought to construct a pipeline to transport oil and gas from the Islamic republics of Central Asia to Pakistan via Afghanistan. However, Karzai's relationship with the Taleban did not last long, since he moved away from the movement immediately after it assumed power in 1996 and turned down the movement's offer to appoint him as its ambassador to the United Nations. The same sources disclosed to Al-Watan that Karzai began to work against the Taleban regime in 1997, and it was then, in his talks with US officials and diplomats, that he began to stress that "Usamah Bin-Ladin and the Arabs have occupied Afghanistan and become the decision-makers in this country". He also began to strongly suggest that the Americans provide real support to an armed Afghan movement, which would work from the inside to overthrow the Taleban regime and get rid of Bin-Ladin and his men "before a big disaster happens". Since 1999, Karzai has expressed his willingness to enter Afghanistan secretly and to work, in secret coordination and cooperation with the Americans, to ignite a popular uprising, especially within the ranks of the Pashtuns, against the Taleban regime. The Americans, however, rejected his request. Despite this US rejection, Karzai started making contacts with the Pashtun tribal chiefs and leaders from his place of residence in Pakistan to incite them against the Taleban regime. As a result of Karzai's secret activity, armed men of the Taleban assassinated his father, Abdol Ahad, in 1999.
L

headhuntersix

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #89 on: October 01, 2007, 09:04:52 AM »
Regardless...my definition of "worked for Unocal" and yours or that idiot Moore's maybe completely different.  I don't buy into the fact that we invaded for the pipeline either. Iraq...sure but Afghanistan...everything is harder there...much harder. If they get the pipline up...great....but having been there etc....scratching ur ass is tougher there.
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Decker

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #90 on: October 01, 2007, 09:07:09 AM »
decker, it was only last week that you discovered that stock trading before 9/11 shows that some people knew it was going to happen.  I'd encourage you to read more.  The more I read, the more it made me sick.  I don't believe there is a good fight to fight anymore.  There is no respect for life.  There is no right/wrong - there is only a set of states vying for resources following utilitarian belief systems, using war and fear as a tool in this war.  Russia knows it - and you've heard them leak all sorts of stuff about us invading Iran.  They don't like it.  But what can they do?  They can buddy up with china and make the alliance with Iran as they did.  They're a dangerous timebomb.  But how can they stop us from hitting iran after the next 'shady' incident?  We have forces and boats there.  We'll have half their army pinkmisted before anyone knows what happened.  It's life, and it's unstoppable.  All we can do it watch.
I've known about the trading for some time.  Knowing about it and studying it in depth are two different things.  The 9/11 Commission concluded that the trading was not suspicious. 

Russia should concern the US.  The entire "we won the cold war" bravado is crapola.  The Russians still have enough ICBMs pointed at the US to destroy us 20 times over.

Russia stood much to gain with the Iraqi venture.  But that's not the case with Iran.  The Russians have invested money and resources in developing the domestic nuclear capability of the Iranians.  They have billions on the line.  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4301889.stm

Based on that, I'm not sure Russia will roll over for an Iranian invasion.


On a side note, where are all the "bomb Iran" people considering these remarks by Putin:

"Vladimir Putin accused the United States of igniting a global arms race and blasted those "who want to dictate their will to all others regardless of international norms and law" -- a comment clearly aimed at the United States. That comes on top of Putin's remarks earlier this spring, in which he appeared to liken the United States to Germany's Third Reich."

Sound like Putin means business.  There are Russian weapons in Iraq.  Maybe we should bomb Russia too?

headhuntersix

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #91 on: October 01, 2007, 09:34:07 AM »
There are Russian weapons everywhere...hell I carried the airborne version of the AK , with the folding stock for about a week after we got in contact. The shit is everywhere.

Decker..why is America the badguy no matter what. Putin is on the road to becoming a dictator. Chavez is a dictator. Iran is rulled by religious nutjobs who'd like to nuke us...and we're the bad guy? Bush will be out of office and we'll have a new government. And guess what..nothing will change because the Dems will realize that u can't deal rationally with some of these people. We'll deal with Russia. They are too interested in become closer with the West, no matter what the rhetoric.
L

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #92 on: October 01, 2007, 10:01:43 AM »
There are Russian weapons everywhere...hell I carried the airborne version of the AK , with the folding stock for about a week after we got in contact. The shit is everywhere.

Decker..why is America the badguy no matter what. Putin is on the road to becoming a dictator. Chavez is a dictator. Iran is rulled by religious nutjobs who'd like to nuke us...and we're the bad guy? Bush will be out of office and we'll have a new government. And guess what..nothing will change because the Dems will realize that u can't deal rationally with some of these people. We'll deal with Russia. They are too interested in become closer with the West, no matter what the rhetoric.
America is the bad guy as long as the Bush Administration keeps manufacturing wars.  I'm all for self defense, defense of another, defense of our property and interests.  But Bush uses the american military like it's his personal security/military staff.

Bush takes advantage of military soldiers by exploiting what it means to be a soldier.  He uses the military's reputation (particularly that which was won in WWII) and increased signing bonuses to rope in more people for his illegal wars.  That makes me sick.

Putin, Ahmadinejad, Hussein, and Khamene'i are our political opponents but they are/were not irrational men...especially where it comes to self-preservation.

This constant effort by you and Bush supporters to paint these people as gibbering murderous animals incapable of reason or negotiation is unfortunate not to mention plain wrong.

I think you are dead on with your estimation of Russia and it's inclination to do business with us.

That's why I can't get a good read on Russia's position on an Iranian invasion.

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #93 on: October 01, 2007, 11:10:37 AM »
I'm back now.

OKay, yes, we are now managing the top third of Iraqi oil.  And we're trying to split up Iraq into 3 states (against their wishes) so we can have more control over all 3 of the chunks when it comes to decision making - hence why al-maliki is going apeshit this morning, complaining about the congressional resolution to split iraq.

The claim that Iran's weapons are being used - being enough to go to war - well, we all know it's just a pretext.  We're going to bomb the shit out of them very soon.  THe goal, as smart people have been saying for the last 2 years, is oil.  We WILL be managing Iranian oil inside of 5 years.  If you don't believe me, go back 2 years to my posts saying we will be managing Iraqi oil.  Then realize that yes, it happened lol.  The WMD, the insurgents - those are small things that nations normally don't declare war for... unless of course, there is 50 tril in oil under the nation - then you attack them by all means.

So when you say:Realize that
1) we control oil-ruch kurdish iraq's oil now.
2) we are splitting the nation up to do the same to the rest of them - requirement as kurd oil is now NO LONGER controlled by central iraqi govt!
3) if/when we bomb iran, we'll be "helping" them rebuild their oil infrastructure, using US firms, just like we're doing in iraq.
4) We own all afghan oil pipelines to the caspian sea now, and have for years since invading.  We just took the bitch over.  Karzai, the man we installed as president, was an Bush I oil executive in Unocal.  Making sense yet? ;) LOL

If you are defining "we" as the U.S. government, then I disagree.  "We" don't control anything.  Private companies are not the U.S. government. 

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #94 on: October 01, 2007, 11:16:23 AM »
If you are defining "we" as the U.S. government, then I disagree.  "We" don't control anything.  Private companies are not the U.S. government. 
That's a great point.  Private Multi-national corps have no allegiance to any country.  The only "we" are the corps with subsidiaries. 

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #95 on: October 01, 2007, 04:36:50 PM »
If you are defining "we" as the U.S. government, then I disagree.  "We" don't control anything.  Private companies are not the U.S. government. 

Since the pvt companies 1) are controlled by US laws 2) pay tax dollars into the US economy and 3) dump the oil into US controlled reserves, not Chinese reserves, 4) are str8 outta texas...

I'll consider their presence there over a Chinese firm a victory.

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #96 on: October 01, 2007, 07:57:41 PM »
Since the pvt companies 1) are controlled by US laws 2) pay tax dollars into the US economy and 3) dump the oil into US controlled reserves, not Chinese reserves, 4) are str8 outta texas...

I'll consider their presence there over a Chinese firm a victory.

None of this changes the fact that private companies are not the U.S. government, which completely undercuts your claim that the U.S. government controls Iraq's oil or will control Iran's oil. 

What exactly are these "tax dollars" being paid on?  Oil that private companies purchase from foreign countries, at a significant profit to foreign countries? 

On what basis do you claim that oil purchased by private U.S. companies are dumped into the "U.S. controlled reserves."  Proof?   

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #97 on: October 01, 2007, 09:00:49 PM »
None of this changes the fact that private companies are not the U.S. government, which completely undercuts your claim that the U.S. government controls Iraq's oil or will control Iran's oil. 
They have all exploration rights, independent of the iraqi govt.  In other word, no future iraqi govt can kick us out.  They are building complete nat'l infrastructure, and the kurds were not allowed to take bids from any firms not from the USA. 


What exactly are these "tax dollars" being paid on?  Oil that private companies purchase from foreign countries, at a significant profit to foreign countries? 

Us firms that make profits worldwide pay taxes to Uncle Sam.  When exxon mobil made $10B in one quarter, the US govt received a nice piece of that in tax dollars.  Just like the rest of us.  They pay their taxes.

On what basis do you claim that oil purchased by private U.S. companies are dumped into the "U.S. controlled reserves."  Proof?   

BB, we can spend hours doing that, but it's pointless.  Just quote me, call me crazy, and in 6 months when more info comes out, I can say I told you so.  If you believe that a TX oil company is going ot put the oil into Russian, chinese, or venezuela reserves, well, you can believe that.  THe rest of us know it's coming to the US, as they're a US firm.

Remember, guys.  We had this argument 18 months ago, and many of you argued til you were blid in the face that "we're not there for the oil".  I admire people like I-one, who now admits that getting their oil was part of it.   BB, if you still believe that "it's about giving them freedom", then god bless ya.  I'm sure you sleep better supporting it.  But the facts are facts.  We invaded, then we took oil rights from the kurds.  Just like you said we wouldn't do.

Decker

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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #98 on: October 02, 2007, 06:56:12 AM »
...

Us firms that make profits worldwide pay taxes to Uncle Sam.  When exxon mobil made $10B in one quarter, the US govt received a nice piece of that in tax dollars.  Just like the rest of us.  They pay their taxes.

...
That's not necessarily true.
U.S.-based oil and gas companies have nearly 900 subsidiaries located in tax haven countries, such as the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.

Why do they do that?  The weather?  No.  They do it to hide profits.

"Bob McIntyre, the director of Citizens for Tax Justice, a government watchdog that has studied the issue, said that big companies with tax haven subsidiaries are able to conduct complex transactions that shelter their profits. Since the transactions are kept within the company, he said they are next to impossible to detect."


“The more these companies can bounce things around offshore, the more profit that can be kept offshore and tax free,” McIntyre said. “They shouldn’t get away with it, but it is really hard to police.”http://www.budgetcorporaterenewals.com/How_Big_Oil_Doesnt_Pay_Taxes.htm


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Re: Congress gave Bush authority to bomb Iran today?
« Reply #99 on: October 02, 2007, 07:15:11 AM »
Yes Decker...but the alot of these issues arose long before Bush was in power...he may have pissed some folks off..ripped off some scabs etc but these folks have had problems with us for along time. As for Russia..they are caught as they have always been...gate way to the East and all that.  I think they want to have access to the EU and become more euro centric....but at the same time they have lost an empire and prominance. I think we underestimate the pride factor in all of this..much like I think ur doing in regards Iran and ur line about rational behavior. I don't find Iran's remarks about Israel very rational based on the fact that the Israeli's love to bomb arabs...really love to bomb arabs and love first strikes etc. Maybe its my Western view, but with all that money they're siting on, I'd be very content if I were Iran. No Saddam, no other regional threats.
L