What you will get with socialized health care

[Decker]

What's the tax burden in the UK? 

What's the aggregate cost of 49 million people seeking emergency and longterm healthcare b/c their little freckle turned into a malignancy?

What's the cost to the UK taxpayer?  I would have to look that up.  But consider this, the UHC cost of coverage is spread amongst the british people just as it is with any private insurer.  That's the essence of insurance:  a shared risk by many to reduce a catastrophic effect on the few.

[Dos Equis]

What's the aggregate cost of 49 million people seeking emergency and longterm healthcare b/c their little freckle turned into a malignancy?

What's the cost to the UK taxpayer?  I would have to look that up.  But consider this, the UHC cost of coverage is spread amongst the british people just as it is with any private insurer.  That's the essence of insurance:  a shared risk by many to reduce a catastrophic effect on the few.

I've debated this with Berserker, but I think the number of people who are uninsured is not synonymous with the number of people who have no access to healthcare.  In other words, I don't accept that 49 million number.  Sounds misleading to me.  The quality of care is definitely a legitimate issue, but I think most Americans (and even illegals) have access to healthcare. 

If the cost to the UK taxpayer is anything like Canada, then the system is too expensive IMO.  Giving half your income to the government (Canada)?  Sheesh. 

[Diesel1]

"What you will get with socialized health care"

MRSA 

Oh and the 'post code' lottery! I'll let my mate Norris explain that one...

[Nordic Superman]

"What you will get with socialized health care"

MRSA 

Oh and the 'post code' lottery! I'll let my mate Norris explain that one...

NHS is a mess no doubt, but I think universal healthcare is necessary.

Where've yah been laddy?

PS Manchester United 3-0 Dynamo Kiev

How are Leeds doing in the Champions League?

[Decker]

I've debated this with Berserker, but I think the number of people who are uninsured is not synonymous with the number of people who have no access to healthcare.  In other words, I don't accept that 49 million number.  Sounds misleading to me.  The quality of care is definitely a legitimate issue, but I think most Americans (and even illegals) have access to healthcare. 

If the cost to the UK taxpayer is anything like Canada, then the system is too expensive IMO.  Giving half your income to the government (Canada)?  Sheesh. 

The question is, do these people have access to preventive care before the small problem turns into a costly emergency?  That answer is no.  Emergency care?  Yes, they have access, but by that time it is too late and too costly to be remotely efficient.

[Dos Equis]

The question is, do these people have access to preventive care before the small problem turns into a costly emergency?  That answer is no.  Emergency care?  Yes, they have access, but by that time it is too late and too costly to be remotely efficient.

Sure they do.  There are clinics, state/county hospitals, Medicare, Medicaid, and state equivalents that provide preventive care.  And everyone can get emergency care because of anti-patient dumping laws.  Do some still fall through the cracks?  Yes.  Is the quality of care probably not all that great?  Yes.  But to say 49 million don't have access to healthcare just doesn't sound right to me.     

[Diesel1]

NHS is a mess no doubt, but I think universal healthcare is necessary.

Where've yah been laddy?

PS Manchester United 3-0 Dynamo Kiev

How are Leeds doing in the Champions League?

It's a mess because the government is so obsessed with targets. Yes waiting list have come down, but at what cost?

Leeds. We're doing great 

[Nordic Superman]

It's a mess because the government is so obsessed with targets. Yes waiting list have come down, but at what cost?

Leeds. We're doing great 

Haha yeah, really is impressive. Probable qualification after the initial point deficit is sick

Shame it's the third league tho

[Decker]

Sure they do.  There are clinics, state/county hospitals, Medicare, Medicaid, and state equivalents that provide preventive care.  And everyone can get emergency care because of anti-patient dumping laws.  Do some still fall through the cracks?  Yes.  Is the quality of care probably not all that great?  Yes.  But to say 49 million don't have access to healthcare just doesn't sound right to me.     

And how do the working poor and destitute afford visits to the clinic?  That's right, they get onto payment plans which they default on and the rest of us pick up the tab anyways.  Ever wonder why aspirin costs $20 at hospital?

Emergency care is a given. That's never been a question. 

[Dos Equis]

And how do the working poor and destitute afford visits to the clinic?  That's right, they get onto payment plans which they default on and the rest of us pick up the tab anyways.  Ever wonder why aspirin costs $20 at hospital?

Emergency care is a given. That's never been a question. 

I think one of the primary value of clinics is they can provide free and/or nominal cost immunizations.  That's prevention.  The working poor and destitute can qualify for Medicaid and their state equivalents. 

[Decker]

I think one of the primary value of clinics is they can provide free and/or nominal cost immunizations.  That's prevention.  The working poor and destitute can qualify for Medicaid and their state equivalents. 

Well that covers immunization.  What about every other malady under the sun?  The working poor and destitute may not qualify for Medicaid.

You also do not address the underinsured.

UHC costs less, has better results and is for the good of the vast majority of our population.  The privatized system you support is an anachronism held afloat by vested interests in the insurance field.

Let's watch our insurance dollars spent on advertising, golf tournament sponsorships, executive comp., lavish corporate headquarters, company jets, Footbal Stadiums...and all the rest that goes along with privatized insurance.

Privatized healthcare is inefficient and even wasteful compared to UHC.

[Livewire]

Average wait times in Canada and England as reported by the Fraser Institute (Canada) and the House of Commons Natilnal Stastics (England)

(Fraser Institute, Focuses on the role competitive markets play in providing for the economic and social well-being of Canadians. www.fraserinstitute.org)

Canada:

Cardio= 5 weeks
Neuro= 10.7 weeks
Ortho= 24.2 weeks
General=5.7 weeks
Opthhamology= 11.8 weeks
Gynecology= 6.6 weeks (and you wonder why Jag's puss stinks)
Urology= 5.1 weeks

England

Cardio= 6.4 weeks
Neuro= 6.6 weeks
Ortho=  10.2 weeks
General= 7.4 weeks
Opthhamology=  6.8 weeks
Gynecology= 8.1 weeks
Urology=  6.2 weeks

Can you please post USA wait times?

I'm comparing apples to black holes here lol... I wanna see our edge

[Dos Equis]

Well that covers immunization.  What about every other malady under the sun?  The working poor and destitute may not qualify for Medicaid.

You also do not address the underinsured.

UHC costs less, has better results and is for the good of the vast majority of our population.  The privatized system you support is an anachronism held afloat by vested interests in the insurance field.

Let's watch our insurance dollars spent on advertising, golf tournament sponsorships, executive comp., lavish corporate headquarters, company jets, Footbal Stadiums...and all the rest that goes along with privatized insurance.

Privatized healthcare is inefficient and even wasteful compared to UHC.

I think many, if not most, of the working poor and destitute qualify for Medicaid, Medicare, and their state equivalents.  Yes there are probably some that fall through the cracks and have no access to healthcare at all.   

We were talking about the purported 49 million uninsured.  IMO, that number is inflated and/or misleading. 

Privatized healthcare isn't perfect.  I have no love for insurance companies.  We had HMSA here raising rates while earning huge profits and sitting on a half billion dollar reserve.     Still, I'd rather let the marketplace handle this, warts and all, then create another government monstrosity that will cost everyone more money.  We have made great strides without federalizing the entire healthcare system (for example, every employer in Hawaii must provide healthcare insurance to all employees who work more than 20 hours a week).  We don't need the government taking this thing over.     

[Tesla]

Socialized health care won't benefit anyone that can afford their own healthcare at this moment.

It's even worse than that...  Everyone who has health insurance at this moment is going to pay more money to finance the insurance for those who don't 

[Decker]

hey jackass, medicare is "socialized medicine" and people choose their own doctor (unlike the military) and never wait months for care. your argument sucks just like military healthcare.

That's a good point about Medicare.

The problem with privatized care can be broken down this way:  it does not offer preventive care to 1/6 of our population and that translates into expensive emergency treatments b/c the disease/malady was not treated early.  Also, the profit motive of big insurance is driving our cost of coverage through the roof.  Small businesses cannot afford to insure workers anymore.

Then we have the cost/benefit anaylysis: privatized medicine costs 40% more per person than universal HC and less people benefit under PM. 

So there is no viable economic or medical criteria for denying UHC in the US.

[militarymuscle69]

sorry but this thread is bullshit. medicare in the u.s is "socialized" medicine. print how long a medicare patient in THIS country waits to see a doctor. otherwise your stats mean nothing.

so we should go straight socialized?

[militarymuscle69]

excuse me but your point was that socialized medicine in america would create long wait periods to see doctors, surgeons etc. that is simply bullshit. the elderly in this country ALL have socialized medicine (medicare) and long lines don't exist.

your point was factless.

My point isn't factless and I even backed it up with the socialized health care I am a part of. Socialized health care will lower the quality across the board. It has in every country that has tried it. Right now we have the best health care in the world for 80%. Why lower it for that 80%?