Author Topic: Dow Crash Coming To Your 401K (2007 to 2022)  (Read 467525 times)

Benny B

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2200 on: November 09, 2009, 10:04:04 AM »
Stocks: Five Market Mistakes to Avoid
Despite a rally, these remain tricky times for investors. Pros tell how to sidestep potential pitfalls for your portfolio

By Ben Steverman

Markets may have rebounded in 2009, but individual investors are still edgy and shell-shocked.

Even as the broad Standard & Poor's 500-stock index remained up 56% since March, the U.S. unemployment rate crept above 10%, according to a Labor Dept. report released Nov. 6. "I don't think many people are feeling very relieved," says Milo Benningfield of Benningfield Financial Advisors in San Francisco. Many people believe the "[stock market rally] can't last," he says.

These remain risky times, and the last few years have demonstrated to investors the high cost of doing the wrong thing. Against that nervous backdrop, BusinessWeek asked financial advisers what common mistakes investors are making, and how to avoid them:

1. Don't Jump In All at Once
A little optimism can be a dangerous thing. Individual investors are notorious for selling stocks when markets have already dropped and buying after they have risen. And, says Susan Elser of Elser Financial Planning in Indianapolis, "Selling low and buying high is the worst thing you can do for your returns."

Among those who stayed away from stocks and other risky investments for the past year, many are irked to have missed out on the recent rally. But is now the right time to buy again?

Don't rush back into the market because you worry you've missed the rally. "The biggest mistake is [to try] to make everything up at once," says Micah Porter, president of the Minerva Planning Group in Atlanta.

At these levels, a 10%, 15%, or 20% correction in the stock market is entirely possible at almost any time. So, instead of buying all at once, Porter advises buying stocks gradually over the next year—or, if you have a lot to invest, an even longer time frame. That puts you in the market long-term, but minimizes the chances you'll buy at the market's exact peak.

2. Don't Fall for Fads or Hype
In investing, jumping on the bandwagon is often a bad idea.

For example, television ads have appeared touting gold as an investment after the precious metal's price has jumped higher, approaching $1,100 per ounce on Nov. 6.

Yet this could be the very time when gold prices are at or near their peak. "This is probably the worst time in my opinion to pile into gold," Benningfield says. He also warns against currency speculation, another recent fad. "It's really risky," he says.

Along with other commodities, gold can be a valuable part of investment portfolios. But advisers like Steve Medland of TABR Capital Management in Orange, Calif., suggest keeping gold to less than 5% of your holdings.

Lots of marketing dollars are also pushing equity-indexed annuities these days. "It is the hot product of the day," Elser says. But Elser, Medland, and others warn about the complexity and high fees of these annuities.

3. Don't Use Headlines or Politics as Investing Guides
"Making [an investing] decision based on who is in political office, whether you agree or disagree, is a huge mistake," says Elaine Scoggins, client experience director at Merriman, a Seattle-based investment advisory firm.

Since the election of Barack Obama as President, political temperatures on the right have risen (just as tempers rose among liberals during the last Administration). And that could be leading to bad investing decisions.

Based on their political beliefs, people are buying into disaster scenarios, from high inflation to a crash for the U.S. dollar to skyrocketing tax rates, Scoggins says. "There are a lot of scare tactics in the media and in politics."

Betting your portfolio on these unlikely outcomes can be a big mistake.


"There's incredible fear out there," says Paul Sutherland, chief investment officer at FIM Group in Traverse City, Mich. But not all the fear is warranted. For example, he notes, a weaker dollar actually can help U.S. manufacturing or U.S. firms with overseas profits.

Politics and current events tend to spark emotions, which are a poor guide for long-term investing, Medland says. "What's going on in the headlines doesn't predict what is happening in the markets," he says.

However, one political fact investors should be aware of is the likelihood of higher taxes for wealthier Americans. Though it's hard to know when and how much rates will increase, good financial advice can help taxpayers minimize their tax bills in some cases. For example, Americans might take investment gains now, while capital gains rates are still relatively low.

4. Don't Disregard Quality
Since March, the lowest-quality companies have had the best-performing stocks. Punished in the depths of the financial crisis, they have rebounded on hopes of a recovery. For example, banks, industrial firms, or very small companies—i.e., risky firms highly influenced by the financial crisis and the recession—have seen their shares double or triple in price.

Meanwhile, companies with stable, consistent businesses have often languished in the stock market.

Don't expect that trend to continue. In fact, the trend may have already ended.

Consider the firms that have done best over the last 12 months in boosting revenue. According to Capital IQ, the top 100 revenue-raisers in the S&P 500 are up a median of 50.3% since the March low, while the firms with the 100 worst 12-month sales-growth records have rocketed higher by a median of 96.7%.

In the last month, though, the performance between the two groups began evening out, and in the past week the trend has reversed entirely. In the first week of November, the median quality firm is up 0.6%, while the median worst firm is actually down 0.2%.

John Merrill, chief investment officer at Tanglewood Wealth Management, says the shift may be the result of a new kind of investor entering the market. These stock managers have been cautious for months, but now they believe they need to start buying. Still wary of risk, "They're going to take the safest step into the market," Merrill says.

Firms with strong fundamentals also can be more resilient long-term bets and may be selling at cheaper prices after the recent rally, Sutherland says. "There are a lot of quality companies selling at great prices," he says.

The same may be true in the bond market. Porter warns against buying high-yielding junk bonds after an "incredible run" for the risky investments.

5. Don't Forget What You Learned
The sudden drop in stocks in 2008 and early 2009 taught every investor what can go wrong. Financial experts say these lessons shouldn't be forgotten, even amid a stock market rally.

"People should always be thinking about those worst-case scenarios," says Medland. The biggest mistake in a crisis, he says, is to not have a plan in advance.

The crisis also taught investors something about themselves, about their ability to invest for the long-term without selling low and buying high.

If you panicked in March and sold all your stock, you've lost out on big gains. If you're susceptible to such investing mistakes in times of crisis, maybe you should pursue a more conservative strategy, Elser says.

"People who jump in and out of the market probably shouldn't be in the market," Elser says. "You either have that tolerance for volatility or you don't."

For many investors, "one lesson is maybe they took on too much risk," Benningfield says.

Against the backdrop of a tough job market, investors are desperate for returns from their investments. They're still smarting from huge holes in their portfolio caused by the market meltdown. But it's important to remember: If you lost big on risky investments in 2008 and early 2009, the solution is not to take on even more risk in an attempt to win back your losses.
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Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2201 on: November 10, 2009, 05:50:59 AM »
in addition to keeping a close eye on GS/Banks, observe UUP (dollar) as it is trading inverse to market.

dollar down, market up 


if Fed takes action to strengthen the dollar, market will tank.


talk about a conundrum.





NT


Dollar Calls the Tune for Stocks, Bonds, Oil.

WSJ  
A joke making the rounds among stock investors is that they've all become currency traders. In recent weeks, the relationship between moves in the dollar and stocks has been incredibly tight; as the dollar rises, stocks fall and vice versa.
And it isn't just stocks. Links between the dollar, corporate bonds, energy prices and gold have grown closer. Traders and analysts point to one factor as the cause: the Federal Reserve's efforts to flood the financial markets with dollars.




NT

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2202 on: November 13, 2009, 07:18:56 AM »
market is temp. overbought on anemic volume. i'd expect to head lower going into the weekend.


just my opinion.




NT

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2203 on: November 13, 2009, 01:28:45 PM »
fed continues to punish the dollar. dow up 73 points.

complete unbridled insanity.




NT

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2204 on: November 13, 2009, 01:30:17 PM »


dollar down, market up.

if Fed takes action to strengthen the dollar, market will tank.



Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2205 on: November 13, 2009, 01:50:32 PM »
i'm beginning to wipe my ass w/ 100's. cheaper than toilet paper.




NT

Benny B

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2206 on: November 13, 2009, 04:43:39 PM »
market is temp. overbought on anemic volume. i'd expect to head lower going into the weekend.


just my opinion.




NT
Can't be right all the time, can we?  :P



Earnings reports push stocks higher; Dow gains 73
Stocks rebound as earnings reports boost confidence about the pace of economic recovery
By Tim Paradis, AP Business Writer
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Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2207 on: November 13, 2009, 04:56:59 PM »
Can't be right all the time, can we?  :P





 ::)

Benny B

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2208 on: November 13, 2009, 05:02:04 PM »
::)
Calm down "Ziggy", its not that serious.  ::) Your little feelings are hurt every time I post. LOL

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Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2209 on: November 13, 2009, 05:05:59 PM »

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2210 on: November 14, 2009, 03:46:05 AM »

Can't be right all the time, can we?  :P


                                        

no argument here.   ;)


NT

 
                                                  Market Top


bush has systematically destroyed this country financially.

our country is heading for a severe recession as a result of his failed policies.

in the coming months, the stock market will come crashing down. mark my words.



                                                Market Bottom



with the market extremely oversold, i anticipate a bear market rally in the very near future.

 

Benny B

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2211 on: November 14, 2009, 06:35:42 AM »
no argument here.   ;)


NT

 
                                                  Market Top

                                                Market Bottom

You, me and about 500,000 others made those predictions bro. Hell, you didn't even have to have been in the business. Just been a layman reading Krugman. That freight train was barreling down the tracks and everyone that deemed to listen could hear it coming. 

You've definitely shown to be very good at spotting potential short term (3 month)outcomes seemingly utilizing a primarily technical analysis approach(market trendline data,volume, mkt moving averages, etc.)

Its the predictions of the day-today market fluctuations that have the potential of venturing into silly season. Certainly it can be fun to make the attempt though.  :) However, you and I both know TA is not going to give you more than an educated guess on how the DOW is going to land at the end of a given day.
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Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2212 on: November 18, 2009, 09:02:09 AM »
continue to follow UUP for market direction.  

UUP up, market down.

UUP down, market up.



NT  

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2213 on: November 19, 2009, 04:12:21 AM »
market is extremely overbought on declining volume. please use caution.



NT

 

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2214 on: November 25, 2009, 03:49:17 AM »


with the market extremely oversold, i anticipate a bear market rally in the very near future.

 


the stock market rally that began in March is the largest in 71 years. as the market climbs higher volume continues to diminish and the dollar plunges lower. (ominous signs)


happy thanksgiving to all !  :D



NT




War-Horse

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2215 on: December 01, 2009, 08:42:19 PM »
Mostly i lurk around here.  But this thread is one to check frequently.      Good stuff.

loco

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2216 on: December 02, 2009, 03:48:38 AM »
Not to say anything negative about Neurotoxin and his posts.  Most people here seem to welcome him and his posts, but the title of this thread and Neurotoxin's original advice seems at this point inaccurate.

The Dow never did crash and neither did 401k.  Anyone who believes there was a crash doesn't know what a crash really is.

move your money out of stocks and into cd's, cash, money markets ect.

preservation of capital is key. if you do nothing, kiss your money goodbye.

Most middle and upper class Americans I know who aggressively invested their 401k and other portfolios in stocks did not touch their investments during this crisis.  Some of them even bought more stocks while they were low.  Though they saw their balance get very low at the beginning, now they see it slowly recovering and close to where it was before the crisis.  Warren Buffet converted almost his entire portfolio to stocks during this crisis.

Those who pulled their money out of stocks and moved it into CDs, Cash, Money Markets, etc., will have missed a great investment opportunity here.  But those who did not panic and left their money in stocks or even put more money into stocks will see great gains as the economy recovers.

I'm not saying that the Dow won't crash in the future or that people will not lose their 401k.  Nobody knows.  But the title of this thread, the predictions and the original advice all posted in 2007 seems inaccurate at this point.  It just did not come to pass.  And I feel sorry for anyone who panicked and pulled their money out of stocks.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2217 on: December 02, 2009, 06:21:09 AM »

Upper-income consumers gloomy on economy

Dec. 2, 2009   
(MarketWatch) -- High-net-worth individuals showed the biggest decline in economic confidence in November, according to a monthly survey released Wednesday by credit-card issuer Discover Financial Services. Overall, 59% of consumers graded the economy as poor, up from 56% in October, while 55% of upper-income consumers rated the economy as poor. November was the first month since July that a majority of that group rated the economy as poor, and the percentage jumped 8 points from October. "With spending among upper-income consumers as a key indicator in determining the success of a holiday shopping season, this may be a concern to retailers who were hoping this income group could improve their holiday sales from a year ago," Discover said.





expect additional retail store closings if holiday season receipts mirror last year. if so, commercial real estate could be next in line to collapse.

jmo.



NT







Neuro - I posted a clip by Howard davidowitz about this. 

Around NYC, there is tons of vacant commercial space. 


Soul Crusher

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pedro01

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2220 on: December 02, 2009, 07:40:37 AM »
33 - you can't compare Japan and US just on these financial issues alone.

Japan has some very unique social issues to deal with which prevented any real recovery.

I'm not saying the US isn't fucked. Just that Japan had much more to deal with than their banks being a bit frisky on the loan side...

Soul Crusher

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2221 on: December 02, 2009, 07:47:08 AM »
33 - you can't compare Japan and US just on these financial issues alone.

Japan has some very unique social issues to deal with which prevented any real recovery.

I'm not saying the US isn't fucked. Just that Japan had much more to deal with than their banks being a bit frisky on the loan side...

I wasnt, just that this guy is pretty entertaining.  His points about the fiscal situation are right on though. 

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2222 on: December 03, 2009, 04:21:01 AM »
Arming Goldman With Pistols Against Public


Dec. 1 (Bloomberg) -- “I just wrote my first reference for a gun permit,” said a friend, who told me of swearing to the good character of a Goldman Sachs Group Inc. banker who applied to the local police for a permit to buy a pistol. The banker had told this friend of mine that senior Goldman people have loaded up on firearms and are now equipped to defend themselves if there is a populist uprising against the bank.

I called Goldman Sachs spokesman Lucas van Praag to ask whether it’s true that Goldman partners feel they need handguns to protect themselves from the angry proletariat. He didn’t call me back.





very interesting...




NT




BWHAHahahahahaha...

Soul Crusher

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2223 on: December 03, 2009, 06:06:21 AM »
Arming Goldman With Pistols Against Public


Dec. 1 (Bloomberg) -- “I just wrote my first reference for a gun permit,” said a friend, who told me of swearing to the good character of a Goldman Sachs Group Inc. banker who applied to the local police for a permit to buy a pistol. The banker had told this friend of mine that senior Goldman people have loaded up on firearms and are now equipped to defend themselves if there is a populist uprising against the bank.

I called Goldman Sachs spokesman Lucas van Praag to ask whether it’s true that Goldman partners feel they need handguns to protect themselves from the angry proletariat. He didn’t call me back.





very interesting...




NT





My cousin works on Wall Street and this weekend he for the first time was asking me about where to get rifles, guns, etc.  He said everyone knows that this whole mess is going to get very ugly.

Whats also funny is that he said that he no longer thinks I'm crazy.  I simply said "Welcome to the VRWC Cuz."

Soul Crusher

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2224 on: December 03, 2009, 08:41:37 AM »
Dec. 3 (Bloomberg) -- Service industries in the U.S. unexpectedly contracted in November as companies lost confidence the recovery will gather strength.

________________________ ____________

I hate that word "unexpectedly".  I 100% percent expect this to continue.