The divide: Pro-life/ anti-universal healthcare...

[garebear]

I dont' understand how Christians, on one hand, could be against abortion, but, on the other hand, be against universal healthcare.

Universal healthcare will save thousands of lives per year, usually poor people. How can you be against anything that helps to save the lives of poor people?

I don't understand.

Thanks.

[The Scott]

I dont' understand how Christians, on one hand, could be against abortion, but, on the other hand, be against universal healthcare.

Universal healthcare will save thousands of lives per year, usually poor people. How can you be against anything that helps to save the lives of poor people?

I don't understand.

Thanks.

I pay for my family.  I do not subscribe to the "give until it hurts" theme. 

There is an Aesop's Fable the tells of a man whose cart became stuck in the mud.

Without ever trying to get the cart out himself, the man immediately knelt in prayer to Hercules, crying out to the god that he needed his help.  Miraculously Hercules appeared before the man and told him thus. 

"Put your shoulder to the wheel and push!"

The moral?  "The gods help those that help themselves."

And neither should a productive society (which includes all of us) help those that refuse to accept personal responsibility for their actions be they criminal or reproductive.  If a liberal (read: steal from the productive to fund the lazy) society wishes to take from the productive to give to the lazy, why not take away the reproductive rights of those incapable or to damn lazy to care for their own issue? 

The answer is votes.  Both now (the "parents") and later (the children of same).

So you see my friend, there is wisdom that comes from places other than the Bible.  One need not know God to have wisdom, just the courage to state the truth even in the face of the ignorance of liberalism. 

So I ask you now.  Why must those who work pay for those who won't.  Why must you or I take care of those who refuse to put their shoulder to the wheel?    God has nothing to do with laziness and I suspect you know this to be true.

As for being against abortion?  I do not abort my own.  What others do with what they so obviously regard as "mistakes" (and so often fail to learn from, as they keep getting pregnant) concerns me not.  They should pay for their "mistakes".  Not you.  Not me.  Society is already paying for the mistakes of many people of all colors but one race:  Human. 

Johnson termed it "The Great Society", aka "Welfare".  It has proven to be anything but "great".

And to be honest I don't believe you.  You really do understand.

Thanks!

[garebear]

No, I really don't understand.

If you are against aborting a child, when it is known that child will have expensive medical issues, then how could you be against a program that would guarantee the child would be able to get health insurance?

Without it, an insurance company could simply deny the child insurance in order to make more profit.

That is a key provision of the ACA.

It would seem that someone claiming to place such great value on life would not ignore the child having the requisite healthcare after said child is born.

It is inconsistent thinking.

[The Scott]

No, I really don't understand.

If you are against aborting a child, when it is known that child will have expensive medical issues, then how could you be against a program that would guarantee the child would be able to get health insurance?

Without it, an insurance company could simply deny the child insurance in order to make more profit.

That is a key provision of the ACA.

It would seem that someone claiming to place such great value on life would not ignore the child having the requisite healthcare after said child is born.

It is inconsistent thinking.

Not really.  Let those who screw up, pay for their mistakes.  Do you really wish to pay for everyone's mistakes in life?  I do not.  If these people place little to  no value on their own life or that of their issue (i.e., children) by contributing to the betterment of society by actually working for a living and contributing more than just another infant to be cared for by the rest of the world, well, I don't want to pay for their stupidity. Neither should you.  If they choose to abort their "mistake", so be it. 

I should not have to pay for that either.   And neither should you. 

I realized some time ago that I cannot change the world.  I cannot make anyone behave.  I cannot bend them to my will. 

I will not pay them to be lazy baby makers.  I will not take care of their issue.  I should not be forced to either.  Let them abort away.  I could care less.  It is not my (nor your) responsibility nor the state.

Happy 4th! 

[Butterbean]

garebear, thank you for your genuine approach to this thread! 

Not to put words in The Scott's mouth, but I think he and I are on the same page saying....some of the people will be the ones that produce the funds to pay for healthcare. 

There are those that are unable, due to mental or physical incapabilities...and those we do not have an issue helping.  Yes, we should help such.

What we are saying is that the people that are ABLE to contribute to their healthcare etc., should.  And in that is a focus upon personal responsibility for choices made.

The more people don't have to accept responsibility.....the more we rely upon others.....the more lazy we become....the more entitled we become....the more that thinking spreads.....the more individuals join that group.....eventually who will pay?

[Man of Steel]

GGGRRRRR!!!!   ME CHRISTIAN!!  ME HATE HEALTHCARE!!  ME GRAB PITCHFORK AND TORCH!!

[Man of Steel]

Well, yeah, this is pretty clear.

Your You're welcome.

You're welcome syntaxmachine.

[garebear]

Well, yeah, this is pretty clear.

Your welcome.

Petty insults aside, it is inconsistent thinking.

[The Scott]

Petty insults aside, it is inconsistent thinking.

No it is not.  That you choose to ignore the truth of my words is no fault of anyone save yourself.

I have told you the truth.  You have ignored it.  Nothing to be done about that.

[garebear]

No it is not.  That you choose to ignore the truth of my words is no fault of anyone save yourself.

I have told you the truth.  You have ignored it.  Nothing to be done about that.

If you'll read my original post (I can only conclude that YOU chose to ignore it) I said it is inconsistent with a Christian philosophy to care about life prenatally and then quit caring.

I understand if you don't care, that's your business, but it is NOT a Christian perspective.

Unless, of course, you can take and leave parts of the Bible as you choose. But if that's the case, you're not really a Christan.

[syntaxmachine]

Petty insults aside, it is inconsistent thinking.

You need to define some terms before anyone can evaluate what you've said. What do you mean by being "against" abortion? What is a "Christian" (a person who says they're Christian to pollsters, or something else)? What do you mean by "universal healthcare"?

If by "universal healthcare" you mean the ACA, then I am confident that a majority of Christians oppose the legislation not because it embodies universal healthcare, but because they perceive serious flaws with the legislation independent of its universality. As an example, one such perceived flaw is that the legislation amounts to the national government compelling the nation to purchase a specific product, an action with no legal precedent. It is still possible that these people think universal healthcare is a good idea, albeit realized through some other means than the ACA.

Think of it another way. Let's say a bill came along that granted the country universal healthcare, but forced everyone to get a thumb stuck up their bum. A majority of people opposed the bill. It would be completely unfair to subsequently criticize these people for opposing universal healthcare, since what they actually oppose is, well, having a thumb stuck up their bum.

[DKlent]

Not really.  Let those who screw up, pay for their mistakes.  Do you really wish to pay for everyone's mistakes in life?  I do not.  If these people place little to  no value on their own life or that of their issue (i.e., children) by contributing to the betterment of society by actually working for a living and contributing more than just another infant to be cared for by the rest of the world, well, I don't want to pay for their stupidity. Neither should you.  If they choose to abort their "mistake", so be it. 

I should not have to pay for that either.   And neither should you. 

I realized some time ago that I cannot change the world.  I cannot make anyone behave.  I cannot bend them to my will. 

I will not pay them to be lazy baby makers.  I will not take care of their issue.  I should not be forced to either.  Let them abort away.  I could care less.  It is not my (nor your) responsibility nor the state.

Happy 4th! 

You aren't "Pro life" then if you support impoverished women abortion babies that they can't afford.


This thread SPECIFICALLY asked about pro-life people who oppose healthcare.

[DKlent]

Butterbean and "The Scott". Have either of you ever been on welfare? Has your parents ever been on welfare of any kind while raising you?

Govt. medical insurance? FoodStamps? Anything?


How about public education? Are you both from private schools? Because public education is paid for by the govt. as well and by taxes. Why should I have to pay for public schools if I have no kids? Maybe ALL schools should be private and only kids whose parents who can afford to send their kids to school get educated. Hmm.