Arnold Jr., with regards to your defending Dave Palumbo's Diet Regimen..

[the Pure Majestic]

you are both correct. with high levels of insuling present it is impossible to burn any amount of fat. with moderate to low levels of insuling present you CAN burn fat, but the more insulin the tougher it is to burn the fat.

Insulin has only one effect on its receptor.  It is either bound to the receptor rendering it active, or the receptor is unbound. 

If insulin is present at the cell, that cell's mitochondria cannot utilize fatty acids to create energy. 


Tell you what, if you gave me a physiolgical scenario where you could present a bound insulin receptor that didn't prevent fatty acid oxidation by that cell's mitochondria I'll go to the shithole you call home and ride "dirtbikes" with you. 

[Van_Bilderass]

Insulin has only one effect on its receptor.  It is either bound to the receptor rendering it active, or the receptor is unbound. 

If insulin is present at the cell, that cell's mitochondria cannot utilize fatty acids to create energy.

Tell you what, if you gave me a physiolgical scenario where you could present a bound insulin receptor that didn't prevent fatty acid oxidation by that cell's mitochondria I'll go to the shithole you call home and ride "dirtbikes" with you. 

What this tells me is that in the scenario I mentioned earlier, eating small frequent meals that release insulin, not all receptors sitting on fat cells are activated by insulin (obviously). It must then be a matter of degree of inhibition of fatloss by insulin, like I said.

The mistake many make is thinking that all mobilization of fatty acids is stopped completely if you have released any insulin at all (by eating carbs for example).

Do you disagree?

[the Pure Majestic]

What this tells me is that in the scenario I mentioned earlier, eating small frequent meals that release insulin, not all receptors sitting on fat cells are activated by insulin (obviously). It must then be a matter of degree of inhibition of fatloss by insulin, like I said.

The mistake many make is thinking that all mobilization of fatty acids is stopped completely if you have released any insulin at all (by eating carbs for example).

Do you disagree?

Yes!
Insulin prevents the oxidation of fatty acids on a cell to cell level.  If insulin activates the receptor on a cell, that cell will send messages to the mitochondria. 
Any cell that isn't effected will not be sent that message. 
Each receptor essentially works in a vacuum.

For some reason people don't seem to understand this simple concept.  It is so confusing to me how the bodybuilding community can claim so many nutritional gurus that don't understand the basic fundamental physiology of the body.

[Arnold jr]

My scenario places these bodybuilders the point where their bodyfat levels are at their lowest (i.e. 2-3 days before a contest, where significant depletion of nutritional intake has also been reached & where maybe even their glycogen storage has been shot), so your entire idea of Ketones plays no argument in what I said, since you are probably considering their weight at the beginning of their diet, whereas I'm looking at it based on them being days out. 

OK, I'm a little confused here. Can you rephrase your question a little bit? I'm not exactly sure what it is your after.

Yes!
Insulin prevents the oxidation of fatty acids on a cell to cell level.  If insulin activates the receptor on a cell, that cell will send messages to the mitochondria. 
Any cell that isn't effected will not be sent that message. 
Each receptor essentially works in a vacuum.

Curious, and maybe I'm reading your post incorrectly.

Wouldn't any insulin released end up activating the receptors on all the cells? How is it that it can be "selective?"

I'm not at all implying that your statement here is wrong...not at all...just want to understand this a little more or clear up my confusion.

[Brutal_1]

I think you were somehow debating with Alex A about Dave's regimen, which somehow drastically cuts your body's intake of glucose and then you stated this:

I need to interject and disagree with your comments, feel free to speak to Dave about this and have him shoot a response my way.  I can be wrong, but just taking a shot in the dark here, let me know if you follow. 

The Brain feeds mainly off of Glucose.  The brain can not store both oxygen & glucose, hence why it needs a constant supply of it.  If you were to reduce your brain's supply of glucose, it would start to feel starved.  If your brain starts to feel starved, it will then search for other means of energy. 

Now, here is the clencher, if the brain's metabolism suffers from such a drastic disturbance (subjecting it to such low levels of glucose), it would then naturally convert to anaerobic metabolism.  The sodium pump will fail and sodium will enter the cell and pull water from the extracellular space.  This will lead to a serum sodium decrease and as a result an abnormal accumulation of fluid in the brain cells follows as well as a decrease in the extracellular fluid space.  All of this leads you to developing cytotoxic edema, which will cause an increase in Intracranial Pressure.

With an increase in Intracranial pressure, you can have symptoms like: decreased levels of consciousness, restlessness, irritability, confusion*, headache, nausea, vomiting, slurred speech*, change in sensorimotor status, ataxia, seizures etc...

Consequently, there is just no way that your statement can make logical sense, unless I'm missing something in the big picture.

Speak to Dave about it and get back to me,
"1"

P.S. This is not to prove you wrong so much, just to mainly clear my understanding of his practice.  Again, I can be wrong and maybe Dave is providing your diet with the smallest amount of glucose before sending your body/brain into hypoglycemic shock, but have him chime in and explain. 

P.P.S. * in my explanation denotes common symptoms that most "Pros" exhibit on a day to day basis when on their pre-contest diets..

You make valid points.

But I've gone on an extremely ketogenic diet for over a month before, and I don't agree that you get used to it, there's just no way. 

BUT.....I did find it odd that I was able to study better.  I had no energy, was always cranky and light headed, but I remember whenever I studied I understood it and retained it much easier than I did after the comp... go figure

[the Pure Majestic]

OK, I'm a little confused here. Can you rephrase your question a little bit? I'm not exactly sure what it is your after.Curious, and maybe I'm reading your post incorrectly.

Wouldn't any insulin released end up activating the receptors on all the cells? How is it that it can be "selective?"

I'm not at all implying that your statement here is wrong...not at all...just want to understand this a little more or clear up my confusion.

There are billions of cells in your body.  A tiny amount of insulin cannot bind to the insulin receptor on each and every one of those cells. 

Would be nice if that worked, sure would take a lot less drugs to kill you.  One dab of an opioid and every single opioid receptor in your body is saturated.

[rocket]

I've been on keto diets before, the transition seemed pretty smooth to me, I felt a lot better without carbs with respect to constant energy levels.

[Brutal_1]

Yes!
Insulin prevents the oxidation of fatty acids on a cell to cell level.  If insulin activates the receptor on a cell, that cell will send messages to the mitochondria. 
Any cell that isn't effected will not be sent that message. 
Each receptor essentially works in a vacuum.

For some reason people don't seem to understand this simple concept.  It is so confusing to me how the bodybuilding community can claim so many nutritional gurus that don't understand the basic fundamental physiology of the body.

LOL!!!!! 

Okay, it's been so hard to tell for a while but i've finally nailed it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Thanks to posts like this.......... 


"the pure majestic" is merely a pimple face college student with a few text books and access to pubmed and wikipedia    This post just clenches it.  He's got the facts right, no doubt about that, but when asked to make sense of them or put them together...he's a mess! 

Get a life kid, I'm sure you're smart enough to impress the girls at the local pub 

[The RedMeatKid]

Try this on for size: "Eat Big, Lift Big, Sleep Big".  Enough with the junk science.