Father killed daughter for not wearing hijab, her friends say

[bigbobs]

Exactly right.

The claim by Muslims is that the Qu'ran is from Allah, reading it, you will obviously see it is not, it has factual flaws.

That should give the Muslims the courage to leave the BS behind and walk as free men and women.

Start treating women as equals, stop harassing homosexuals, stop the polygamy, et al.

Start living in the 21st century.

Regarding "factual flaws," please be specific if there are any and I can try to address them.

Regarding polygamy, the fact that something is allowed does not mean its encouraged or even a common practice.  Since, as you noted, Islam is applicable to all places and all times, certain rules must be broad enough to encompass an extremely wide case of scenerios and settings.  The rule of polygamy is intended for scenerios in which war-torn countries contain more women then men coupled with the fact that the economy is such that jobs are scarce and men are typically the bread-winners.  In many counties in the past and even today, if polygamy were not allowed women would simply starve to death.  As of right now I believe 52% of the world's population is female, compared to 48% male.  I have a more recent example in which about 7 years ago women in Nigeria were PROTESTING in the streets AGAINST men who could afford to have more than one wife but refused to!  They were actually holding up signs and protesting...because the economy there is not like it is North America where anyone can easily find work, so these women need men to support them financially, and when men don't marry them they remain in poverty.

So in conclusion, the rule is allowed for certain circumstances such as the above around the world.

[bigbobs]

Sam Harris layed the smackdown on Reza Aslan search youtube for these names.

No clue who Reza Aslan is or what his credentials are.  The fact that I haven't heard of him makes me think he is not very prominent.  Instead of referring me to one youtube clip with only several minutes of a less-known Muslim speaker losing to a debate against a Christian, why not try to match up by providing FULL hour or more length videos that contain the whole debate and those against prominent speakers Shabir Ally or Ahmed Deedat--which is what I provided. 

I know those videos are lengthy and would take a long time to get through them all, but they would offer you lots of insight and answer many of your questions.

[Deicide]

Regarding "factual flaws," please be specific if there are any and I can try to address them.

Regarding polygamy, the fact that something is allowed does not mean its encouraged or even a common practice.  Since, as you noted, Islam is applicable to all places and all times, certain rules must be broad enough to encompass an extremely wide case of scenerios and settings.  The rule of polygamy is intended for scenerios in which war-torn countries contain more women then men coupled with the fact that the economy is such that jobs are scarce and men are typically the bread-winners.  In many counties in the past and even today, if polygamy were not allowed women would simply starve to death.  As of right now I believe 52% of the world's population is female, compared to 48% male.  I have a more recent example in which about 7 years ago women in Nigeria were PROTESTING in the streets AGAINST men who could afford to have more than one wife but refused to!  They were actually holding up signs and protesting...because the economy there is not like it is North America where anyone can easily find work, so these women need men to support them financially, and when men don't marry them they remain in poverty.

So in conclusion, the rule is allowed for certain circumstances such as the above around the world.

Factual errors:

7:124 Surely I shall have your hands and feet cut off upon alternate sides. Then I shall crucify you every one.

20:71 (Pharaoh) said: Ye put faith in him before I give you leave. Lo! he is your chief who taught you magic. Now surely I shall cut off your hands and your feet alternately, and I shall crucify you on the trunks of palm trees, and ye shall know for certain which of us hath sterner and more lasting punishment.

Crucifixion is a Roman punishment, unknown in Egypt at the time this story supposedly occurred.

71:16 And hath made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a lamp ?

This verse implies that the moon produces its own light, rather than reflecting light from the sun.

86:5 So let man consider from what he is created.   
86:6 He is created from a gushing fluid 
86:7 That issued from between the loins and ribs. 

Humans are formed from "a gushing fluid" that issues "from between the loins and the ribs, i.e. the spine.

There are several others though these are rather infamous ones.

[Deicide]

Regarding "factual flaws," please be specific if there are any and I can try to address them.

Regarding polygamy, the fact that something is allowed does not mean its encouraged or even a common practice.  Since, as you noted, Islam is applicable to all places and all times, certain rules must be broad enough to encompass an extremely wide case of scenerios and settings.  The rule of polygamy is intended for scenerios in which war-torn countries contain more women then men coupled with the fact that the economy is such that jobs are scarce and men are typically the bread-winners.  In many counties in the past and even today, if polygamy were not allowed women would simply starve to death.  As of right now I believe 52% of the world's population is female, compared to 48% male.  I have a more recent example in which about 7 years ago women in Nigeria were PROTESTING in the streets AGAINST men who could afford to have more than one wife but refused to!  They were actually holding up signs and protesting...because the economy there is not like it is North America where anyone can easily find work, so these women need men to support them financially, and when men don't marry them they remain in poverty.

So in conclusion, the rule is allowed for certain circumstances such as the above around the world.

It is absolutely beyond me how anyone can thing any of these books (Bible, Koran) of pseudo-history and mythology could be the perfect in any way, shape or form.

[Nordic Superman]

See Youtube.

It's not my job to find the videos for you.

[bigbobs]

Factual errors:

7:124 Surely I shall have your hands and feet cut off upon alternate sides. Then I shall crucify you every one.

20:71 (Pharaoh) said: Ye put faith in him before I give you leave. Lo! he is your chief who taught you magic. Now surely I shall cut off your hands and your feet alternately, and I shall crucify you on the trunks of palm trees, and ye shall know for certain which of us hath sterner and more lasting punishment.

Crucifixion is a Roman punishment, unknown in Egypt at the time this story supposedly occurred.

71:16 And hath made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a lamp ?

This verse implies that the moon produces its own light, rather than reflecting light from the sun.

86:5 So let man consider from what he is created.   
86:6 He is created from a gushing fluid 
86:7 That issued from between the loins and ribs. 

Humans are formed from "a gushing fluid" that issues "from between the loins and the ribs, i.e. the spine.

There are several others though these are rather infamous ones.

Regarding crucifixion in Egypt, the "flaw" you found is extremely "weak," and that's being generous.  Man of all times and places knew of crucifixion as a punishment, not only Romans and not egyptians, lol.

Regarding 71:16, I dont interpret it the way you do.  There's nothing there that implies that the moon'slight is not a reflection of the Sun's.  Here's a page that contains a summary of many translations of the verse, which shows how interpretations can easily be different simply based on trying to translate the Arabic script:  http://islamawakened.com/Quran/71/16/

Regarding 85:5-7: (copy and pasted resonse)

"In embryonic stages, the reproductive organs of the male and female, i.e. the testicles and the ovaries, begin their development near the kidney between the spinal column and the eleventh and twelfth ribs. Later they descend; the female gonads(ovaries) stop in the pelvis while the male gonads(testicles) continue their descent before birth to reach the scrotum through the inguinal canal. Even in the adult after the descent of the reproductive organ, these organs receive their nerve supply and blood supply from the Abdominal Aorta, which is in the area between the back bone(spinal column) and the ribs. Even the lymphatic drainage and the venous return goes to the same area."

For more detailed info on embryology in the Quran see:  http://www.answering-christianity.com/embryology.htm

[bigbobs]

See Youtube.

It's not my job to find the videos for you.

I found more than enough videos for you on the contrary, if you were able to match mine you sure would 

Besides, taking a select youtube clip of a few minutes to imply one speaker "owned" another during a debate which lasts over an hour is ludicrous.

[Nordic Superman]

I found more than enough videos for you on the contrary, if you were able to match mine you sure would 

Besides, taking a select youtube clip of a few minutes to imply one speaker "owned" another during a debate which lasts over an hour is ludicrous.

I'll look into it then when I'm less busy

[Deicide]

Regarding crucifixion in Egypt, the "flaw" you found is extremely "weak," and that's being generous.  Man of all times and places knew of crucifixion as a punishment, not only Romans and not egyptians, lol.

Regarding 71:16, I dont interpret it the way you do.  There's nothing there that implies that the moon'slight is not a reflection of the Sun's.  Here's a page that contains a summary of many translations of the verse, which shows how interpretations can easily be different simply based on trying to translate the Arabic script:  http://islamawakened.com/Quran/71/16/

Regarding 85:5-7: (copy and pasted resonse)

"In embryonic stages, the reproductive organs of the male and female, i.e. the testicles and the ovaries, begin their development near the kidney between the spinal column and the eleventh and twelfth ribs. Later they descend; the female gonads(ovaries) stop in the pelvis while the male gonads(testicles) continue their descent before birth to reach the scrotum through the inguinal canal. Even in the adult after the descent of the reproductive organ, these organs receive their nerve supply and blood supply from the Abdominal Aorta, which is in the area between the back bone(spinal column) and the ribs. Even the lymphatic drainage and the venous return goes to the same area."

For more detailed info on embryology in the Quran see:  http://www.answering-christianity.com/embryology.htm

I take it you are a Muslim who believes the Quran is the perfect word of allah? Right?

[Nordic Superman]

Regarding crucifixion in Egypt, the "flaw" you found is extremely "weak," and that's being generous.  Man of all times and places knew of crucifixion as a punishment, not only Romans and not egyptians, lol.

Regarding 71:16, I dont interpret it the way you do.  There's nothing there that implies that the moon'slight is not a reflection of the Sun's.  Here's a page that contains a summary of many translations of the verse, which shows how interpretations can easily be different simply based on trying to translate the Arabic script:  http://islamawakened.com/Quran/71/16/

Regarding 85:5-7: (copy and pasted resonse)

"In embryonic stages, the reproductive organs of the male and female, i.e. the testicles and the ovaries, begin their development near the kidney between the spinal column and the eleventh and twelfth ribs. Later they descend; the female gonads(ovaries) stop in the pelvis while the male gonads(testicles) continue their descent before birth to reach the scrotum through the inguinal canal. Even in the adult after the descent of the reproductive organ, these organs receive their nerve supply and blood supply from the Abdominal Aorta, which is in the area between the back bone(spinal column) and the ribs. Even the lymphatic drainage and the venous return goes to the same area."

For more detailed info on embryology in the Quran see:  http://www.answering-christianity.com/embryology.htm

Can you explain hermaphrodites?

[24KT]

Incredible to see you defend a religion and a culture that systematically holds women down with an iron fist.

You repeatedly makes excuses for the abuse that women are target for in the name of Islam.

Let me make this absolutely crystal clear: There is never a situation where abuse can be legitimized.

Never a social situation where tyranny of one gender can be accepted.

Real fcuking funny.

Are you on drugs? Put down the crackpipe, and pull out whatever the fvck is stuck up your ass and get a clue!

If she was killed because she refused to live according to medieval traditions of this family, I'd say that is conclusive evidence that the primitive religion/culture of this family was not only a factor, but the primary cause of this tragic death.

HELLO?!!!  If being the operative word. None of us know. Nobody knows, right now everyone is jumping to conclusions based on rumours the press put out in circulation because they have been barred from his arraignment.

What you've done, is to refuse to accept facts, to realise that those who opposes your nemesis Bush can actually be assholes too.

Now I know you're certifiable. There are no fucking facts other than a girl is dead, and her father has been charged with her murder. Those are the only facts out there. As for the guy's politics, how the fuck would I know what his politics are? Seriiously? And for you to even suggest that you do, makes you sound even stupider than I previously thought you were. What do you base your assumption of his politics on? Something concrete, ...or more of the ignorance you wallow in and expect. I don't know. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say the guy was probably a conservative based on the neighbourhood they lived in and the fact that Indian & Pakistani upper middle class Canadians are bringing about an upsurge in the growing number of conservative party supporters in this country. That, and the fact that he was a fucking idiot who killed his daughter.

But seriously, this has nothing whatsoever to do with Bush or politics. The fact that you even bring bush's name into it, makes you look like an even bigger buffoon than Nordic. At least we all know he's got shit for brains and nothing but bigotry in his veins, ...but what's your excuse? Give your head a shake. If and when you're able to use some common sense, then get back to me, but right now it appears commonsense & intelligent reasoning, is something you and quite a few others are incapable of mustering if it involves anyone the least bit "swarthy looking".

[24KT]

Can you explain hermaphrodites?

Nordic, if you were a hermaphrodite, ...I'd tell you to go fuck yourself!

[Deicide]

Nordic, if you were a hermaphrodite, ...I'd tell you to go fuck yourself!

Jaguar, your leftism borders on lunacy.

There is a middle ground you know.

[Nordic Superman]

Nordic, if you were a hermaphrodite, ...I'd tell you to go fuck yourself!

ha ha, congrats, moderately amusing

[24KT]

Jaguar, your leftism borders on lunacy.

There is a middle ground you know.

I fail to see how politics enters into this Trapeze. Perhaps you could explain it to me?

I know the mantra of some bigots is hate everything & everyone dark & muslim.
Assume they're all religious fanatics etc., etc., All I'm saying is there is no evidence here, only speculation.
nobody knows. I'm not saying he was above all that, I don't know, I don't know the guy, all I'm saying is I won't bother rushing to judgement because it was a slow news day.

[gtbro1]

  I agree with Jag.

[tu_holmes]

  I agree with Jag.

Nooooo!

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=175811.0

[Deicide]

I fail to see how politics enters into this Trapeze. Perhaps you could explain it to me?

I know the mantra of some bigots is hate everything & everyone dark & muslim.
Assume they're all religious fanatics etc., etc., All I'm saying is there is no evidence here, only speculation.
nobody knows. I'm not saying he was above all that, I don't know, I don't know the guy, all I'm saying is I won't bother rushing to judgement because it was a slow news day.

It is a standard leftist reaction to blame anything but the dogmaticism and tenets of Islam for the actions of its adherents. That's what I meant.

[gtbro1]

Nooooo!

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=175811.50

I must have missed her talking about a dead mother.

  If so that aint cool

[24KT]

It is a standard leftist reaction to blame anything but the dogmaticism and tenets of Islam for the actions of its adherents. That's what I meant.

OK, ...definition understood. But at the same time you could say it is neo-con influenced brain washing to using any crime committed by anyone who may be muslim was a direct influence of islam.

All I'm saying is a girl is gead, her father has been arrested, reporters are barred from the arraignment, and everyone is saying he killed her over a hijab. What I'm saying is 'we don't know why, ...and to assume, is merely that, ...an assumption, not fact.'

There was a guy out west who killed his daughter, ...did people run off and make assumptions about why he did it without having any evidence? Did they pass the rumour and innuendo off as fact, or were they at least cognizant of the fact that they were only dealing in rumour, gossip, speculation and innuendo.

[24KT]

I must have missed her talking about a dead mother.

  If so that aint cool

gtbro1,

Some people like bike boy can't handle anything that even remotely hints at speaking ill about a DEAD parent, ...but have no problem with a guy like Alec Baldwin heaping vicious verbal abuse at a LIVE child.

[G o a t b o y]

I have thus far not seen any evidence that islam was the cause of this tragedy. It is all speculation and rumors.

It doesn't matter.  Islam sucks ass, period.

[G o a t b o y]

Look at Jag...  ripping on a guy for riding a bike, while at the same time sporting a "be a responsible steward of the earth" tag line.


G o a t b o y  smells hypocrisy! 

[tu_holmes]

Look at Jag...  ripping on a guy for riding a bike, while at the same time sporting a "be a responsible steward of the earth" tag line.


G o a t b o y  smells hypocrisy! 

Remember... it's only being environmentally friendly if you buy those fuel craps... so she can make some money.

[G o a t b o y]

Hi,Judi!