Truegrit,I understand what you are saying about naturals, pumping iron era, but guess what, the "Pummping Iron era" guys where BIG!!! My point is ANY " competitive " bodybuilder, his goal was to be as big he couldv'e possibly be , natural or not. How you end up is based on your structure or genetics, Whether your on hormones or not. Not 1 "competitive bodybuilder goes through all that pain that it takes to be in contest shape with the mindset, " hey I wanna stay small".