my cousin can bend spoons

[figgs]

The scientific method is our greatest tool! Without it, we would not have had so many great discoveries. Shamans? LOL...no such things. Psychics? No such things. Ghosts? no such things

I need empirical evidence, sorry!

It's our greatest tool, but we're talking about a tool developed by a species who can't even function in a technological society without raping the planet. People in an overpopulated world who still manage to be unhappy and lonely. Our species are cosmic teenagers. Shamanic cultures think we are lost souls. We place more value on our physical selves, not out spiritual selves (most aren't even aware of our spiritual selves). We place for value on materialism than to our beautiful planet that provides us all the essentials to live and asks nothing in return, not even when we destroy it.

www.dedroidify.com/vids/

Scroll down to shamanism and there's about 2 dozen videos on the subject. It will transform your culturally deceived perception of reality (no offense).

(sry for hijacking the thread  )

[SF1900]

It's our greatest tool, but we're talking about a tool developed by a species who can't even function in a technological society without raping the planet. People in an overpopulated world who still manage to be unhappy and lonely. Our species are cosmic teenagers. Shamanic cultures think we are lost souls. We place more value on our physical selves, not out spiritual selves (most aren't even aware of our spiritual selves). We place for value on materialism than to our beautiful planet that provides us all the essentials to live and asks nothing in return, not even when we destroy it.

www.dedroidify.com/vids/

Scroll down to shamanism and there's about 2 dozen videos on the subject. It will transform your culturally deceived perception of reality (no offense).

(sry for hijacking the thread  )

Well, you are steering off topic. I am talking about human beings in regard to science and the contributions that have been made over time through science. You are talking about spirituality.

I am not doubting that the human race is fucked up but without the scientific method, we would not have made such great discoveries in medicine, physics, atronomy, psychology, geology, etc. The human race has come a long way in those fields. All the medicine you get when you are sick, you can thank science for that. Without the scientific method Einsteins theory of special relativity perhaps would of never came to be or discarded.

[ironneck]

ja ich glaube auch dass es etwas mit physik zu tun hat

ok er hat es nun noch mal vor meinen augen gemacht aber musste auch 3 minuten lang reiben...
er hats aber vorher nicht verbogen!die moleküle schmelzen wohl förmlich dahin bei der erzeugten wärme

[figgs]

Well, you are steering off topic. I am talking about human beings in regard to science and the contributions that have been made over time through science. You are talking about spirituality.

I am not doubting that the human race is fucked up but without the scientific method, we would not have made such great discoveries in medicine, physics, atronomy, psychology, geology, etc. The human race has come a long way in those fields. All the medicine you get when you are sick, you can thank science for that. Without the scientific method Einsteins theory of special relativity perhaps would of never came to be or discarded.

sry got a phone call. You're right. I don't mean to bash scientific method for it's accomplishments, but for what it can't accomplish.

[dr.chimps]

sry got a phone call. You're right. I don't mean to bash scientific method for it's accomplishments, but for what it can't accomplish.

I think you're confused, Figgsy. 'Scientific method' (and I'll use this term loosely) is merely an accepted way of looking/observing something in a regimented way. Then one can ask questions like: can this object/process be observed acting like this all the time?; can these findings be replicated by other people?; what conclusions can we draw from these observations; do these conclusions indicate any applications? etc. Scientific method doesn't accomplish, or not accomplish, anything; it is not an entity. 

[SF1900]

I think you're confused, Figgsy. 'Scientific method' (and I'll use this term loosely) is merely an accepted way of looking/observing something in a regimented way. Then one can ask questions like: can this object/process be observed acting like this all the time?; can these findings be replicated by other people?; what conclusions can we draw from these observations; do these conclusions indicate any applications? etc. Scientific method doesn't accomplish, or not accomplish, anything; it is not an entity. 

you da man

[SF1900]

sry got a phone call. You're right. I don't mean to bash scientific method for it's accomplishments, but for what it can't accomplish.

From Wikipedia:

Scientific method refers to the body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. It is based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning.[1] A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.[2]

[PANDAEMONIUM]

Man nehme einen beliebigen Löffel, greife ihn an beiden Händen und biege ihn hin und her. Das ist leichter, als man zunächst vermuten mag. Wenn sich an der Biegestelle ein feiner Riss zeigt, biegt mal den Löffel nur noch in seine Normalform zurück. Man kann den Löffel jetzt sehr leicht an dieser Stelle abbrechen. Bevor man dies tut, verdecke man den Riss aber mit seinen Fingern und bewege die noch lose verbundenen Löffelteile nur etwas hin und her, damit es so aussieht, als beginne der Löffel jetzt langsam zu schmelzen bis er schließlich zerbricht. Wenn man sich dann zusätzlich noch eine Gabel aus einer so genannten "Formgedächtnis-Legierung" herstellen lässt, kann man sich, wie auch Geller in der Show, jegliche eigene Arbeit sparen: Man warte einfach, bis sich die Gabel durch die Anpassung an die Raumtemperatur von selbst verbiegt.

Warum diverse Zuschauer per Telefon selbst Erfolge vermelden konnten, ist daher auch ganz einfach zu erklären. Die wenigsten hatten zuvor jemals versucht, einen Löffel zu verbiegen und schreiben die Tatsache, dass dies so einfach sein kann, Gellers Fähigkeiten zu. Einen anderen Grund lieferte Geller selbst in einem Interview mit der "Magischen Welt", einem deutschen Fachmagazin für Zauberkünstler: "25 Prozent der Anrufer spinnen nur Geschichten."

ok

[dr.chimps]

From Wikipedia:

Scientific method refers to the body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. It is based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning.[1] A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.[2]

Yeah. What that says. I don't understand half of what Figgsy's on about these days. He was fine one day and then the next went all Daddywaddy on us. 

[SF1900]

Yeah. What that says. I don't understand half of what Figgsy's on about these days. He was fine one day and then the next went all Daddywaddy on us. 

LOLZ. He has to stop using what daddywaddy is using I was just trying to explain how using the scientific method you can gather data and thus come up with new theories on a variety of subjects. He then starts to talk about spirituality 

[figgs]

I was talking about shamanism. Just trying to teach you a little about it since you said you don't believe in it, which I found strange since shamans have been part of human life since its beginning and they have an essential role to society.

[Marty Champions]

I was talking about shamanism. Just trying to teach you a little about it since you said you don't believe in it, which I found strange since shamans have been part of human life since its beginning and they have an essential role to society.

id rather trust ancient wisdom and native america ways then diseased throw away wasteful self destructive englishmen habits of old

[figgs]

id rather trust ancient wisdom and native america ways then diseased throw away wasteful self destructive englishmen habits of old

Yeah, me to. Much of ancient wisdom was due to the fact that they were in touch with nature. Our society is consumed by a wasteful, inefficient, and disinformed culture that must be thrown away before it destroys us. And the best way to clear your system of your cultural codes is through the shamanic technique: psychedelic gateways into the unknown.

[HTexan]

if someone had any real power, I bet the last thing did whould be telling anyone about it.

[Big Worm]

i always thought uri is fake but how the fuck is it pssible that my cousin was able to bend the spoon with just touching?he didn't prepare anything!

Big deal.. Babu(bobs) and Cock Jockey ,bend d!cks.

[AllDrugs]

i always thought uri is fake but how the fuck is it pssible that my cousin was able to bend the spoon with just touching?he didn't prepare anything!

........there is no spoon........

[dr.chimps]

........there is no spoon........

........Whoa.......

[DK II]

........there is no spoon........

deep!!

[kyomu]

........there is no spoon........

Thats always i say to my self when i do heavy squat.(No kidding)

[DK II]

That's nothing.  I make 300 grain chunks of lead accelerate from 0 to 3150 feet/sec with a twitch of my finger.  Now this is magic.

i can make the air stink.

[Jussup]

@SF1900: While I totally agree with you on the Uri Geller spoon horseshit, you know as well as I do that there are some serious studies out there that report significant effects in highly controlled "Ganzfeld" experiments (e.g. Robert Jahn). Of course there are also studies that couldn't replicate the effects. But considering these circumstances dismissing any biophysical anomalies appears to be a little bit simplicistic.
We could have the same discussion on the scientifically validated effectiveness of psycho-analytic therapy on anxiety disorders etc.

Also "science" tends to change its view on what is "metaphysical" and thus not accessible to the scientific method. A perfect science-historical example is the phenomenon of lucid dreaming.

[DK II]

@SF1900: While I totally agree with you on the Uri Geller spoon horseshit, you know as well as I do that there are some serious studies out there that report significant effects in highly controlled "Ganzfeld" experiments (e.g. Robert Jahn). Of course there are also studies that couldn't replicate the effects. But considering these circumstances dismissing any biophysical anomalies appears to be a little bit simplicistic.
We could have the same discussion on the scientifically validated effectiveness of psycho-analytic therapy on anxiety disorders etc.

Also "science" tends to change its view on what is "metaphysical" and thus not accessible to the scientific method. A perfect science-historical example is the phenomenon of lucid dreaming.

Hi Uri!

[SF1900]

@SF1900: While I totally agree with you on the Uri Geller spoon horseshit, you know as well as I do that there are some serious studies out there that report significant effects in highly controlled "Ganzfeld" experiments (e.g. Robert Jahn). Of course there are also studies that couldn't replicate the effects. But considering these circumstances dismissing any biophysical anomalies appears to be a little bit simplicistic.
We could have the same discussion on the scientifically validated effectiveness of psycho-analytic therapy on anxiety disorders etc.

Also "science" tends to change its view on what is "metaphysical" and thus not accessible to the scientific method. A perfect science-historical example is the phenomenon of lucid dreaming.

Please read:

"However, there were enough problems with the original ganzfeld studies that Honorton and Hyman issued a joint communiqué in 1986 in which they detailed the kinds of safeguards that future experiments should take. Hyman writes: “In our joint paper, both Honorton and I agreed that there were sufficient problems with this original database that nothing could be concluded until further replications, conducted according to specified criteria, appeared.” In the joint paper, they wrote: “We agree that there is an overall significant effect in this data base that cannot reasonably be explained by selective reporting or multiple analysis. We continue to differ over the degree to which the effect constitutes evidence for psi, but we agree that the final verdict awaits the outcome of future experiments conducted by a broader range of investigators and according to more stringent standards (Hyman & Honorton, 1986, p. 351)."



And yes, I agree that pscyhoanalytic theory has had its fair share of ups and downs in reagrd to whether or not it can treat a number of disorders. BUT, I am somewhat steering away from the psychoanalytic movement. I consider myself more of a CBT (cognitive-behavioral) type person. The fact of that matter is that multiple studies have been shown that CBT does help anxiety disorders. The more studies that prove this, the more we can ascertain with a certain amount of certainty that CBT does help anxiety disorders. Does CBT help EVERYONE that suffers from an axiety disorder. Of course not! There is always exceptions to the rule. But, the point of reserch is to be able to generalize your results externally across places, situations, people, etc, which CBT has been shown to do. Unfortunately, any sort of psychic ability has not come up with sufficient data to warrant it as "true." I am sure the "ganzfled study" holds some truth, but I am also sure there were problems with the study and some sort of biases (which every experiement has). I will believe that psychic abilities exist when more research can prove this phenomenon.

I consider myself a skeptic, not pesimisstic or close-minded. I do entertain the possibility that some things possibly exist that cannot be explained yet by science. Do I believe them to be true? NOPE! A good quote "the true mark of intelligence is entertaining an idea without accepting it."-Aristotle ...Certain phenomenon can exist, but as a skeptic, I need to see some verifiable proof.

[littleguns]

That's nothing. Nasser is a millionaire,Hundredaire yet he still sells used clothes, begs for free air plane tickets and drives an old toyota. Now, that my friend, is magic! 

Fixed