A few questions for atheists

[Deicide]

In my father's last days before he died, he was in and out of consciousness.  On two different occasions, it appears that my dad was talking to individuals who could not be seen with the naked eye.  My uncle was sitting in the room with my dad, and my dad looked up at something (someone) and said, "I know who you are.  I'm not ready yet."  And the night my dad died, my mom and my oldest brother were thinking that my dad had passed on a couple of different times, and they shouted his name.  At one point, my dad said to another person not visible to anyone else in the room, "Lord, I want to come, but they keep calling me back." 

I know that's not enough for you, C-dude.  But it's enough for me, especially when I've heard similar instances from others and their loved-ones who have passed on.

Meh, none of that is evidence that the particular tenets, doctrines and claims of Christianity are true. That's not even evidence of a divine being. An extremely religious man makes statements about his deity whilst dying? Boy, that's extremely uncommon. Socalled near-death experiences are simply misfirings of the brain. They have been replicated many times over in experiments. If your father had addressed Odin or Zeus, would you believe in them?

[Deicide]

What film is that from T?


Of course Deeds



I would be interested in hearing more about this if you are inclined to share

Collateral.

Another line...

Most people, ten years from now, same job, same place, same routine. Everything the same. Just keeping it safe over and over and over. Ten years from now. Man, you don’t know where you’ll be ten minutes from now . . .

[Colossus_500]

Meh, none of that is evidence that the particular tenets, doctrines and claims of Christianity are true. That's not even evidence of a divine being. An extremely religious man makes statements about his deity whilst dying? Boy, that's extremely uncommon. Socalled near-death experiences are simply misfirings of the brain. They have been replicated many times over in experiments. If your father had addressed Odin or Zeus, would you believe in them?

Did you say something?

[Deicide]

Did you say something?

I did and that such a experience is evidence enough for you says much about your person.

[wavelength]

1.  Does human suffering play a big part in you considering yourself an atheist?

2.  Do you believe in free will?

3.  Do you believe in personal responsibility?

Interesting questions. I'm not an atheist, but I guess the intention of the questions was to find out if one believes in ethics. For me it is quite obvious that if you say no to question 2, you must also say no to question 3. How can I be responsible for anything if I can't decide anything?

[spotter]

1.  Does human suffering play a big part in you considering yourself an atheist?

2.  Do you believe in free will?

3.  Do you believe in personal responsibility?

   It really only matters what you believe, not what others believe.   I believe that there are not athiests in fox holes.   I believe that life is about choices, good , or bad ones.  Responsibilty, is something I struggle with frequently.    People are always compartmenatlizing each other into some form of religion.    Live & let Live......

 

[Deicide]

   It really only matters what you believe, not what others believe.   I believe that there are not athiests in fox holes.   I believe that life is about choices, good , or bad ones.  Responsibilty, is something I struggle with frequently.    People are always compartmenatlizing each other into some form of religion.    Live & let Live......

 

Gott war, ist und wird immer tot sein.

Es lebe der chronische Schlafentzug!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Arggggggggggggggggggg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dos Equis]

I know it's just the internet, which is why I save my real passion and fury for those irl. Your post is rather odd, Hedgie, since I did answer questions on a thread for atheists.  I would think that this, plus the other comments I've made on this board would indicate that I am an atheist.

So when did you convert from Christianity to atheism? 

I'm a Christian. I think it encourages people to excuse their bad behavior in the name of God when it's written on currency. Do   you think Jesus would have approved? Considering what he felt about the money lenders.

[Straw Man]

1.  Does human suffering play a big part in you considering yourself an atheist?

2.  Do you believe in free will?

3.  Do you believe in personal responsibility?

1. what is your definition of atheist?

2.  yes, but then if you didn't have free will and everything you did was pre-ordained by god would you be able to tell the difference?

3.  Yes

[Deedee]

So when did you convert from Christianity to atheism? 

Not sure exactly when I stopped believing in God, probably when I started to think for myself at around 15ish.

Like many people I'm a cultural Christian, in that certain values, ways of thinking, experiences, were engrained in me since childhood. I celebrate Christmas with joy, have no problems going to Church if asked for some reason, volunteer, that sort of thing. If I were brought up in the Jewish faith, my outlook on life would probably be ever so slightly different, (although I can host a mean seder if so inclined) and if I had been brought up Muslim, even more so.

[Dos Equis]

Not sure exactly when I stopped believing in God, probably when I started to think for myself at around 15ish.

Like many people I'm a cultural Christian, in that certain values, ways of thinking, experiences, were engrained in me since childhood. I celebrate Christmas with joy, have no problems going to Church if asked for some reason, volunteer, that sort of thing. If I were brought up in the Jewish faith, my outlook on life would probably be ever so slightly different, (although I can host a mean seder if so inclined) and if I had been brought up Muslim, even more so.

You think people who believe in God don't think for themselves? 

[Deicide]

You think people who believe in God don't think for themselves? 

Aren't you living evidence for that thesis?

Magic man and woman magiced into existence by a magic tribal deity, whom a magical talking snake appear to, whereupon the magic woman eats a magic apple....and...yup....Ge nesis is NOT literal...don't you get it?

The funny thing is, tell a fundamentalist like you that his wife is cheating on him, he's going to want hard evidence like a video, not that you saw it in a dream or an ancient text predicted it would happen...tell him the the book next to his bed is magic and contains the dictated word of the creator of the universe and he requires no evidence at all; this is called the dichotomy of the religious mind.

[Deedee]

You think people who believe in God don't think for themselves? 

Lol, no, not necessarily, simply that at some point, everyone makes the decision to believe or not, for themselves. At least, the educated have that option.

It is true though that uneducated, poor communities tend to be more unquestioningly and fervently religious. You have only to look around the world.

[Dos Equis]

Aren't you living evidence for that thesis?

Magic man and woman magiced into existence by a magic tribal deity, whom a magical talking snake appear to, whereupon the magic woman eats a magic apple....and...yup....Ge nesis is NOT literal...don't you get it?

The funny thing is, tell a fundamentalist like you that his wife is cheating on him, he's going to want hard evidence like a video, not that you saw it in a dream or an ancient text predicted it would happen...tell him the the book next to his bed is magic and contains the dictated word of the creator of the universe and he requires no evidence at all; this is called the dichotomy of the religious mind.

Whatever you say troll.  You're the same person who said I lived in a trailer park somewhere in the Southern United States.  lol . . .  I see you like building houses of cards.  

[Dos Equis]

Lol, no, not necessarily, simply that at some point, everyone makes the decision to believe or not, for themselves. At least, the educated have that option.

It is true though that uneducated, poor communities tend to be more unquestioningly and fervently religious. You have only to look around the world.

Oh I disagree.  Just look at the number of parochial schools in this country, secondary and post secondary.  There are churches all over the place in this country, regardless of how poor or well off the communities are.   Also, there really isn't much correlation between education and belief in God, based on the "statistics" I've seen.

Anecdotally, I have a number of highly educated friends and acquaintances who are "unquestioningly and fervently religious."

[Deicide]

Oh I disagree.  Just look at the number of parochial schools in this country, secondary and post secondary.  There are churches all over the place in this country, regardless of how poor or well off the communities are.   Also, there really isn't much correlation between education and belief in God, based on the "statistics" I've seen.

Anecdotally, I have a number of highly educated friends and acquaintances who are "unquestioningly and fervently religious."

Maybe they believe in 'belief in belief' and not the silly stories of the Bible?

I am not a troll.

Why do you believe that Genesis is literally true?

[Dos Equis]

Maybe they believe in 'belief in belief' and not the silly stories of the Bible?

I am not a troll.

Why do you believe that Genesis is literally true?

What is "belief in belief"? 

If you're not a troll, you're doing a fine job of imitating one. 

I believe the Bible is the word of God, because I'm a Christian and I've spent a lot of time developing a relationship with God, praying, testing his promises in the Bible, and seeing tangible results from those promises.  I have all the proof I need that His word is true based on my own experiences and those of others.  And no I can't give you scientific proof of my religious beliefs. 

[Hedgehog]

1.  Does human suffering play a big part in you considering yourself an atheist?

2.  Do you believe in free will?

3.  Do you believe in personal responsibility?

1. No. I just have no proof of a God. That is all.

2. Free will, if by that you mean there is no divine power deciding what we're going to do. And I definitely believe in responsibility for one's actions.

But I also believe that humans, social systems and gender et al have significant influence on the ability for persons to make choices.

Eg, I do not believe that women in Saudi Arabia have much choice but to become fundamentalist Muslims, even though that religion works against them.

Same thing with a young kid growing up in a bad neighborhood. The chances are much higher that he will become a criminal. Because that are where his opportunities lies.

3. See above.

[loco]

What is "belief in belief"? 

If you're not a troll, you're doing a fine job of imitating one. 

I believe the Bible is the word of God, because I'm a Christian and I've spent a lot of time developing a relationship with God, praying, testing his promises in the Bible, and seeing tangible results from those promises.  I have all the proof I need that His word is true based on my own experiences and those of others.  And no I can't give you scientific proof of my religious beliefs. 

Good post, Beach Bum!

[Deicide]

Good post, Beach Bum!

The Bible Thumper's union....

A Christian posts something, anything and then...

Good post...

[loco]

The Bible Thumper's union....

A Christian posts something, anything and then...

Good post...

Nah, that wasn't just any post.  It was a good post.   

[ToxicAvenger]

1.  Does human suffering play a big part in you considering yourself an atheist?

2.  Do you believe in free will?

3.  Do you believe in personal responsibility?

1) yes
2) yes
3) yes

see us athiests do good cause we think its the right thing to do...we dont need a reward at the end like the religious folks..reward being heaven.


hense we r morally superior 

[loco]

see us athiests do good cause we think its the right thing to do...we dont need a reward at the end like the religious folks..reward being heaven.

hense we r morally superior

You should learn a little humility from your fellow atheist, Roy Hattersley.

"We atheists have to accept that most believers are better human beings"

Roy Hattersley
Monday September 12, 2005

Guardian

Hurricane Katrina did not stay on the front pages for long. Yesterday's Red Cross appeal for an extra 40,000 volunteer workers was virtually ignored.

The disaster will return to the headlines when one sort of newspaper reports a particularly gruesome discovery or another finds additional evidence of President Bush's negligence. But month after month of unremitting suffering is not news. Nor is the monotonous performance of the unpleasant tasks that relieve the pain and anguish of the old, the sick and the homeless - the tasks in which the Salvation Army specialise.

The Salvation Army has been given a special status as provider-in-chief of American disaster relief. But its work is being augmented by all sorts of other groups. Almost all of them have a religious origin and character.

Notable by their absence are teams from rationalist societies, free thinkers' clubs and atheists' associations - the sort of people who not only scoff at religion's intellectual absurdity but also regard it as a positive force for evil.

The arguments against religion are well known and persuasive. Faith schools, as they are now called, have left sectarian scars on Northern Ireland. Stem-cell research is forbidden because an imaginary God - who is not enough of a philosopher to realise that the ingenuity of a scientist is just as natural as the instinct of Rousseau's noble savage - condemns what he does not understand and the churches that follow his teaching forbid their members to pursue cures for lethal diseases.

Yet men and women who believe that the Pope is the devil incarnate, or (conversely) regard his ex cathedra pronouncements as holy writ, are the people most likely to take the risks and make the sacrifices involved in helping others. Last week a middle-ranking officer of the Salvation Army, who gave up a well-paid job to devote his life to the poor, attempted to convince me that homosexuality is a mortal sin.

Late at night, on the streets of one of our great cities, that man offers friendship as well as help to the most degraded and (to those of a censorious turn of mind) degenerate human beings who exist just outside the boundaries of our society. And he does what he believes to be his Christian duty without the slightest suggestion of disapproval. Yet, for much of his time, he is meeting needs that result from conduct he regards as intrinsically wicked.

Civilised people do not believe that drug addiction and male prostitution offend against divine ordinance. But those who do are the men and women most willing to change the fetid bandages, replace the sodden sleeping bags and - probably most difficult of all - argue, without a trace of impatience, that the time has come for some serious medical treatment. Good works, John Wesley insisted, are no guarantee of a place in heaven. But they are most likely to be performed by people who believe that heaven exists.

The correlation is so clear that it is impossible to doubt that faith and charity go hand in hand. The close relationship may have something to do with the belief that we are all God's children, or it may be the result of a primitive conviction that, although helping others is no guarantee of salvation, it is prudent to be recorded in a book of gold, like James Leigh Hunt's Abu Ben Adam, as "one who loves his fellow men". Whatever the reason, believers answer the call, and not just the Salvation Army. When I was a local councillor, the Little Sisters of the Poor - right at the other end of the theological spectrum - did the weekly washing for women in back-to-back houses who were too ill to scrub for themselves.

It ought to be possible to live a Christian life without being a Christian or, better still, to take Christianity à la carte. The Bible is so full of contradictions that we can accept or reject its moral advice according to taste. Yet men and women who, like me, cannot accept the mysteries and the miracles do not go out with the Salvation Army at night.

The only possible conclusion is that faith comes with a packet of moral imperatives that, while they do not condition the attitude of all believers, influence enough of them to make them morally superior to atheists like me. The truth may make us free. But it has not made us as admirable as the average captain in the Salvation Army.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5283079-103390,00.html

[ToxicAvenger]

You should learn a little humility from your fellow atheist, Roy Hattersley.

i'm not really a very humulous person!

i'm honest though!

[Dos Equis]

Good post, Beach Bum!

Thanks loco.