Author Topic: Matt C will appreciate this...  (Read 12077 times)

G o a t b o y

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Re: Matt C will appreciate this...
« Reply #100 on: April 25, 2008, 05:10:49 PM »
You just awnsered yourself, Jimmy is a private citizen that want to go meet SELF PROCLAIMED TERROR leaders, he ISNT an ambassador talking to a leader of a nation in a formal and approved manor.

He's a recognized international mediator.  He's not representing anybody, he's simply using his skills as a mediator and a respected figure whom both sides will talk to to try to broker peace.

Quote
And YES he needs permission to associate with terror group leaders since he is a private citizen, or do you think anyone should be allowed to deal and associate with terrorists?

People are not "owned" by the governments of the countries in which they reside.  Jimmy Carter, (or you or I for that matter) can talk to whoever the fuck he wants to.  Since when does a free person require permission from anybody?  In fact, you have it exactly backwards...  if he worked for the government, then he WOULD require permission... as a private citizen he doesn't.

You act as though he's planning a bombing of a cafe in Tel Aviv with Hamas or something.  He's trying to talk them out of doing such things.  ::)
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Van_Bilderass

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Re: Matt C will appreciate this...
« Reply #101 on: April 25, 2008, 11:13:09 PM »


They are a racist organization that like to hide behind the land claims

But Jews aren't a race though, right?

Mars

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Re: Matt C will appreciate this...
« Reply #102 on: April 26, 2008, 12:04:24 AM »
Joos constantly decry the behavior of Nazis to this very day.....however, their behavior towards Palestinians is absolutely no different. Zionists need to be put in check and we (US) need to stop acting as their puppet

bump for truth.

Mars

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Re: Matt C will appreciate this...
« Reply #103 on: April 26, 2008, 12:11:16 AM »
Forget about your ideas about the land stealing, you are filled with hype and like I said I'm not touching it now as its too big for this thread.

Hamas hates Jews not only Israeli's, have you missed that?

You just awnsered yourself, Jimmy is a private citizen that want to go meet SELF PROCLAIMED TERROR leaders, he ISNT an ambassador talking to a leader of a nation in a formal and approved manor.

And YES he needs permission to associate with terror group leaders since he is a private citizen, or do you think anyone should be allowed to deal and associate with terrorists?

one mans terrorist is another mans freedomfighter, in their eyes Israel is a terrorist state, some Israeli leaders even admitted that if they were on palestinian side they would also join a terrorist organisation to fight for their rights.
btw Hamas is chosen by the palestinian people, they are their voice, banning out talks with them will only get the conflict more heaten up than it already is.

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Re: Matt C will appreciate this...
« Reply #104 on: April 26, 2008, 01:27:55 AM »
one mans terrorist is another mans freedomfighter, in their eyes Israel is a terrorist state, some Israeli leaders even admitted that if they were on palestinian side they would also join a terrorist organisation to fight for their rights.
btw Hamas is chosen by the palestinian people, they are their voice, banning out talks with them will only get the conflict more heaten up than it already is.

Did you bothered to follow what happend after they got elected? Hamas and Fatach went into a massive war in Gaza killing innocents DAILY and killing one another all day long.

In case you don't know all those "freedom figthers" treat their own the worse and you can find plenty of interviews of people from the Gaza strip saying they want to move to Israel or have Israel controlling Gaza again.
They also STEAL all the support aid money, you know that Arafat's wife have something like 5Bil$ and she is wanted in some Arab countries.

A freedom figther doest treat his own like that, not to mention that you should see how the other Arab nations treat Palestinians , you do know that Jordan have like a 20/80 ratio of Jordanians and Palestinians and the Palestinians majority are treated as 10th grade citizens and off course http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan .

Its like that all over the Arab world, Israel have been to gentle with them....I ask again...which country will sit ideally by when its being attacked DAILY with rockets on CIVILIAN populations for YEARS? McCain even been in Israel last month and he said he was shocked and that he is shocked Israel can doesn't retaliate with much more.

He's a recognized international mediator.  He's not representing anybody, he's simply using his skills as a mediator and a respected figure whom both sides will talk to to try to broker peace.

People are not "owned" by the governments of the countries in which they reside.  Jimmy Carter, (or you or I for that matter) can talk to whoever the fuck he wants to.  Since when does a free person require permission from anybody?  In fact, you have it exactly backwards...  if he worked for the government, then he WOULD require permission... as a private citizen he doesn't.

You act as though he's planning a bombing of a cafe in Tel Aviv with Hamas or something.  He's trying to talk them out of doing such things.  ::)

He is a citizen that is going to meet terrorists (and racists) leaders  thus Israel choose to call him a bigot, I cant see why are you so surprised. You can keep trying to make it look as if both sides are saints but those are the simple facts and I see no reason not to call him that or to be surprised. Everyone got their intrests in mind, do you really want me to find quotes of Hamas calling leaders in names? I don't think Ron have enough storage space for that huge list.

And I'm sorry but you are very mistaken, meeting with wanted terrorists isn't something that a private citizen can do.
I'm guessing we can all pop a visit to Osama, nothing wrong with associating with him too ahh? I'm sure the CIA/FBI and police will have something else to say about it after you get back.

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Re: Matt C will appreciate this...
« Reply #105 on: April 26, 2008, 07:55:36 AM »
He is a citizen that is going to meet terrorists (and racists) leaders  thus Israel choose to call him a bigot, I cant see why are you so surprised. You can keep trying to make it look as if both sides are saints but those are the simple facts and I see no reason not to call him that or to be surprised. Everyone got their intrests in mind, do you really want me to find quotes of Hamas calling leaders in names? I don't think Ron have enough storage space for that huge list.

And I'm sorry but you are very mistaken, meeting with wanted terrorists isn't something that a private citizen can do.
I'm guessing we can all pop a visit to Osama, nothing wrong with associating with him too ahh? I'm sure the CIA/FBI and police will have something else to say about it after you get back.


You and I are never going to agree on this, because it's clear our viewpoints on individual rights and freedoms are fundamentally different. 
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Re: Matt C will appreciate this...
« Reply #106 on: April 26, 2008, 12:29:49 PM »
I don't give a shit about Palestine or Israel.

What I don't like is the US giving billions of tax payer dollars so Israel can build huge fences, have one of the most advanced armies in the world, and give an incentive to arabs to hate this country. I fucking hate their control of media, which is responsible for dumbing down the american people. I hate their control of this country.

Anyone speaking out on this issues is automatically antisemetic.  ::)

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Re: Matt C will appreciate this...
« Reply #107 on: April 26, 2008, 01:23:31 PM »
I don't give a shit about Palestine or Israel.

What I don't like is the US giving billions of tax payer dollars so Israel can build huge fences, have one of the most advanced armies in the world, and give an incentive to arabs to hate this country. I fucking hate their control of media, which is responsible for dumbing down the american people. I hate their control of this country.

Anyone speaking out on this issues is automatically antisemetic.  ::)

Most of those billions that you talk of are given as "coppuns" and are actually a method of generating more income for the military industry and an artificial way for the government to put money into that industry.
The US government intrest is to keep its military industry alive and prospering and giving out foreign countries "coppuns" to order from them is a way to bypass the congress because its not included in the defense program funds but in support aid.

Further more, the military alliance with Israel is very benefiting to the US since Israeli technology is top notch. You should know that most systems that are bought and brought to Israel are emptied out and only the basic hardware is left and everything else is replaced with Israeli upgraded versions.

You do know that Israel is one of the biggest high tech producing countries in the world...although having only 7mil people.

Regarding your media control theory...come on..are you 5 year old? They are so many people with money that hate Israel and Jewish people that is simply idiotic to think they will let that actually happen, its not even worth a debate.


Camel Jockey

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Re: Matt C will appreciate this...
« Reply #108 on: April 26, 2008, 01:46:30 PM »
You've got some good points. Jewish people collectively have contributed a lot in terms of science, technology, to the social sciences, and many other fields. No one's claiming otherwise.

But one thing you can't deny is that the US' relationship with Israel gives arabs an excuse to hate America. Maybe this wasn't an important factor 8 years ago, as there was enough admiration for America by others to offset the hate. But since the invasion of Iraq the US has lost most of its credibility and the relation with Israel only adds to the growing dislike that people have for the US around the globe. This growing dislike isn't just in arab world any longer, but has now spread to even other western nations.

Israel also influences US foreign policy. Face it, one of the reasons the US is hot on Iran's tail is because of Israel. Bet you Israel loved the US going into Iraq to take out Saddam.. But do you honestly think they give a damn now that we're in that mess? I think not. What about the Israeli spy that was caught spying?

And a powerful defense industry who's interests is America waging war is a good thing? Arming countries like Saudia Arabia is a good thing?  :-\

I am not like MattC, who I honestly think dislikes Jewish people. Living in NYC, I've met many Jewish people and am fond of them. But this doesn't mean I'm going to turn a blind eye to whats going on.

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Re: Matt C will appreciate this...
« Reply #109 on: April 26, 2008, 03:23:06 PM »
You've got some good points. Jewish people collectively have contributed a lot in terms of science, technology, to the social sciences, and many other fields. No one's claiming otherwise.

But one thing you can't deny is that the US' relationship with Israel gives arabs an excuse to hate America. Maybe this wasn't an important factor 8 years ago, as there was enough admiration for America by others to offset the hate. But since the invasion of Iraq the US has lost most of its credibility and the relation with Israel only adds to the growing dislike that people have for the US around the globe. This growing dislike isn't just in arab world any longer, but has now spread to even other western nations.

Israel also influences US foreign policy. Face it, one of the reasons the US is hot on Iran's tail is because of Israel. Bet you Israel loved the US going into Iraq to take out Saddam.. But do you honestly think they give a damn now that we're in that mess? I think not. What about the Israeli spy that was caught spying?

And a powerful defense industry who's interests is America waging war is a good thing? Arming countries like Saudia Arabia is a good thing?  :-\

I am not like MattC, who I honestly think dislikes Jewish people. Living in NYC, I've met many Jewish people and am fond of them. But this doesn't mean I'm going to turn a blind eye to whats going on.

You can say the exact opposite, the US have a huge chock hold on Israel politics and no Israeli prime minister isn't doing any serious action without the US giving him its approval.
Its in the US intrest to have a hold in the middle east and Iraq ( mass destruction weapons aside) is a part of it.

Let me point out several things that I want you to comment on:

1.The Iraq war took the life of about 4K soldiers, about the same amount that died at 9/11. Lets assume that Osama and Sadam are totally unrelated (which isn't true) but Sadam was still a large supporter of terror, so you can either live in fear and in a defensive manner losing the same amount of CIVILIANS in one day or take the war to them and after doing allot of changes losing the same amount of SOLDIERS.

What do you prefer to do?

2.Although its really shitty to say, when you hear that another soldier died its not nice, but when you hear the gas prices are up 10% in one day it make your pocket burn and it will probably bother you more.
Now lets take a possible extreme situation of Arab countries completely cutting off the oil supply, that might pose a COMPLETE change and can DESTROY the US economy, think of having NO gas for cars,houses and power plants.

Do you want to have them holding you by the balls like that? Do you really think it will benefit the US if the middle east went into an all out war? If Israel will go into war alone it will fight for its life and if attacked by chem/bio/nuke like Iran want to do it will react with the same and that will result in major shit storm world wide, no one wants that.

3.Sadam committed mass murder and used bio and chemical weapons in the past thus giving a good reason to be put as a target.

4.Taking over Iraq was probably the plan and Iran was the true target but since Iraq was a much softer target that can be used as a base of operation it was chosen to be the first.

5.Israel if capable of dealing with any Arab military force out there, Iran is actually the only one that isn't falling apart. But Iran can also never launch a surprise attack due to being too far. It can only use missiles and Israel have a multi layer defense system against that.

I got more stuff to say but enough of my rambling :D

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Re: Matt C will appreciate this...
« Reply #110 on: April 27, 2008, 05:22:00 AM »
I am not like MattC, who I honestly think dislikes Jewish people. Living in NYC, I've met many Jewish people and am fond of them. But this doesn't mean I'm going to turn a blind eye to whats going on.

You have to seriously question the intelligence of a person who makes blanket statements about "Jews" the way Matt C does.

He seems unable to separate Jewish culture with "Jewish" ethnicity as well.

I've always opposed the occupation of Palestine. I thought it was wrong.

I also believe that a lot of the politics run by Israel towards the Palestines today is pure racism, and a disgrace.

But I also believe it is not possible to force the Israelis out of Israel/Palestine today. A split nation is the best possible solution.

I doubt that many Israelis and American-living Jews fully understand how bad the Palestines really are treated.

Currently, they are locked in behind a wall. They have very limited access to gas, to food, to anything.

This isn't a prison either.

This is done to 6 month old babies. To 80-year olds.

To handicapped persons.

But I still don't think there is anything wrong with "Jews". How the fcuk could there be something wrong with a person due to his ethnicity?

That is something Matt C could answer perhaps.
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Re: Matt C will appreciate this...
« Reply #111 on: April 27, 2008, 05:41:37 PM »
Jewish people are very sucessful and have contributed a lot to mankind. Naturally, this has put them on top. Simply hating them for this reason alone is stupid.

However, questioning the media influence, the treatment of palestinians(I don't think they're innocent), and the huge influence they exert on world's most powerful country to advance their own selfish needs = real issues.

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Re: Matt C will appreciate this...
« Reply #112 on: April 28, 2008, 01:09:15 AM »

I've always opposed the occupation of Palestine. I thought it was wrong.

I also believe that a lot of the politics run by Israel towards the Palestines today is pure racism, and a disgrace.

I doubt that many Israelis and American-living Jews fully understand how bad the Palestines really are treated.

Currently, they are locked in behind a wall. They have very limited access to gas, to food, to anything.

This isn't a prison either.


1.The UN + the fact that many Jewish people BOUGHT tons of land here + the historic rights to Israel caused the "Israeli occupation".

2.The areas that the Arabs keep bitching about are areas that they lost in UNPROVOKED wars started BY THEM.
Those areas are used as buffer zones to prevent things like the missile attacks from Gaza that happens now.

3.The wall was initiated mostly due to Palestinians sitting on hills and shooting at passing veichles and to prevent terrorists coming into Israel.
Its a wall to keep out not to keep in you fail to see that, its also the base of the Palestinians getting full control of their areas. All countries have borders, if its a hostile one than the border gets beefier.
Don't forget that like in every border in the world MANY Palestinians can pass (into Israel) and they do through the controlled border passages. Besides, diffrent countries don't have to allow anyone to come and enter now do they?

BTW in case you missed it Egypt is building a wall to now because Hamas destroyed the old border with them and they don't want terrorists entering and getting shot with missiles too.


However, questioning the media influence, the treatment of Palestinians(I don't think they're innocent), and the huge influence they exert on world's most powerful country to advance their own selfish needs = real issues.

Everyone got a media influence saying that Christians,Muslims,Arabs or whatever don't have media control is stupid. They all have plenty of money and means and they use them.