Author Topic: Bob says: Drugs have less to do with the b/building look than people think?  (Read 11420 times)

Chick

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How come ive read information saying you should train lagging bodyparts twice a week, i even heard Ruhl in one of his videos saying he tried to train his triceps twice a week at one point to bring them up... why would people do this if once a week is known to be so much better.

When someone can show me how breaking down a muscle twice as much will lead to building it up twice as fast....I'll listen.

Until then, I'll stick with what I know....

Meltdown

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Banned and Illegal Substances is what you know.

Jerryme7

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In my opinion, drugs play a very important part.

Example... take the drugs away from a 280 pound pro bodybuilder, what do you get?  A bodybuilder who wouldnt be under 8 percent bodyfat and wouldnt be over 200-210 pounds....not only that...they wouldnt be as strong as they were when they were on....

What does the word "anabolic" mean? Hence why they are known as anabolic steriods.... steriods "enhance" what you have.... if you already have great genetics....they make you even bigger and better...

Ive seen Jumbo Palumbo one year at the Olympia expo smaller than what he once was...so I knew he was pretty much almost off...the following year when I saw him...he was freakin huge!

What I think why some pros say that drugs dont really play an important part like people think they do is because if someone has shitty genetics (ugly structure ie Palumbo) that person will never be a pro regardless how huge that person is or how much muscles that person has....  it has to take someone with great genetics, a great work ethic, a passion  for the sport and a never give up attitude...

There have been many ametuers competing that never make pro status..some have taken years upon years to do that....

knny187

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When someone can show me how breaking down a muscle twice as much will lead to building it up twice as fast....I'll listen.

Until then, I'll stick with what I know....

Arnold didn't seem to have much problem with training twice....& even sometimes 3 times a bodypart a week

Chick

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Arnold didn't seem to have much problem with training twice....& even sometimes 3 times a bodypart a week

Yeah....and he was 228 lbs. at the height of his career....hence the point of guys being 40-50 lbs heavier now.

natural al

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drugs=big factor in a guy being a pro bb.

not the only factor but a big factor, if you don't believe it then you're an idiot.

the best "real" natty guys today are about 35 years behind pro BB in terms of development.

you still have to know your shit and diet hard and train hard but drugs are a big factor.
nasser=piece of shit

MCWAY

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Yeah....and he was 228 lbs. at the height of his career....hence the point of guys being 40-50 lbs heavier now.

I thought that Arnold, at his peak in 1974, competed at 240 lbs.

From what I've read, Arnold dropped to 210 to film a movie (Stay Hungry, I think). When he decided to compete in the 1975 Olympia (to be in Pumping Iron), he only regained 20 of his 30 lost lbs. back, putting him at 230, which was still good enough to win.


peroni

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Modern bodybuilding is ALL DRUGS.


Now don't get me wrong... yes, you need superior genetics, and yes you need to lift weights, no one is disputing that.  BUT, don't kid yourselves:  the difference between a Steve Reeves and a Jay Cutler (both of whom had superior genetics and both of whom lifted weights) is 100% drugs.


Hope this helps.



You can't compare the 2. These days we know much more about training and nutrition as well as legal supps. Of course there's still a huge drug induced difference, but you can't compare guys from a bygone era to todays people. You'd have to look at the seventies, eighties etc etc. Even then you can still make the point that we know more these days.

knny187

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Yeah....and he was 228 lbs. at the height of his career....hence the point of guys being 40-50 lbs heavier now.

Well, there's alot of reasons for that.

Hell, back then leg training wasn't overly emphasized for one

2...the drugs today are leagues above what they were using back then

then you add to the fact Arnold still trained 2-3 times a week per body part.  

BEAST 8692

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Modern bodybuilding is ALL DRUGS.


Now don't get me wrong... yes, you need superior genetics, and yes you need to lift weights, no one is disputing that.  BUT, don't kid yourselves:  the difference between a Steve Reeves and a Jay Cutler (both of whom had superior genetics and both of whom lifted weights) is 100% drugs.


Hope this helps.



that would work if steve reeves hadn't taken testosterone through the 1940s.

quick histrory lesson for the naive

1920s - athletes were already using a crude form of testosterone from monkey testicles.

1930s - steroids were invented and immediately used by athletes and soldiers along with underweight males and as a health tonic for sexual prowess among other things. in fact, hitler ordered them to be administered to himself and his troops.

1940s - you can bet your ass that elite athletes and bbers were using them. they weren't even considered a risk back then. they were a health tonic that WORKED.

1950s - oral dianabol was created and kaboom, every man and his dog was popping dbols...

from there it's pretty obvious what happened.

reeves is somehow painted as the patron saint of bbing (now there's an oxymoron) but in reality, he was a self obsessed thespian and champion bber. why the hell wouldn't he take a health tonic that will keep him at the top of his game and physical peak? simple common dog fuck really.

people like to say, 'where's your proof that reeves used testosterone?' my simple answer is, 'where's your proof that cutler or coleman do?

Heywood

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that would work if steve reeves hadn't taken testosterone through the 1940s.

quick histrory lesson for the naive

1920s - athletes were already using a crude form of testosterone from monkey testicles.

1930s - steroids were invented and immediately used by athletes and soldiers along with underweight males and as a health tonic for sexual prowess among other things. in fact, hitler ordered them to be administered to himself and his troops.

1940s - you can bet your ass that elite athletes and bbers were using them. they weren't even considered a risk back then. they were a health tonic that WORKED.

1950s - oral dianabol was created and kaboom, every man and his dog was popping dbols...

from there it's pretty obvious what happened.

reeves is somehow painted as the patron saint of bbing (now there's an oxymoron) but in reality, he was a self obsessed thespian and champion bber. why the hell wouldn't he take a health tonic that will keep him at the top of his game and physical peak? simple common dog fuck really.

people like to say, 'where's your proof that reeves used testosterone?' my simple answer is, 'where's your proof that cutler or coleman do?


You are quite the historian.....

Heywood

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The premise of this thread is BS, with all due respect.

How important is food?
How important is water?
How important is training?
How important is sleep?
How important is drugs?

The answer is all are necessary.  The point is, Arnold's contention was that drugs were 15% of the deal.

No, there is no % you can put on it.  Without the drugs, you don't even place in the top 10.  So we can put a % of importance on sleep, eating, etc.  It don't mean nothing!


bebop396

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that would work if steve reeves hadn't taken testosterone through the 1940s.

quick histrory lesson for the naive

1920s - athletes were already using a crude form of testosterone from monkey testicles.

1930s - steroids were invented and immediately used by athletes and soldiers along with underweight males and as a health tonic for sexual prowess among other things. in fact, hitler ordered them to be administered to himself and his troops.

1940s - you can bet your ass that elite athletes and bbers were using them. they weren't even considered a risk back then. they were a health tonic that WORKED.

1950s - oral dianabol was created and kaboom, every man and his dog was popping dbols...

from there it's pretty obvious what happened.

reeves is somehow painted as the patron saint of bbing (now there's an oxymoron) but in reality, he was a self obsessed thespian and champion bber. why the hell wouldn't he take a health tonic that will keep him at the top of his game and physical peak? simple common dog fuck really.

people like to say, 'where's your proof that reeves used testosterone?' my simple answer is, 'where's your proof that cutler or coleman do?

Got documented proof? this will be graded

Van_Bilderass

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When someone can show me how breaking down a muscle twice as much will lead to building it up twice as fast....I'll listen.

Until then, I'll stick with what I know....
Most of the growth from training comes in the first few hours after the session. Mentzer thought that you recovered first, which he thought took many days, followed by growth. That's not correct. Protein synthesis is highest immediately after. Protein synthesis is back to baseline after 48 hours in a steroid free athlete = after 48 hours you are not growing anymore. When using steroids you will have an artificially heightened protein synthesis for longer but it still makes sense that you'd want to stimulate growth as frequently as possible.

Soreness doesn't mean "muscle breakdown" either in case you think that. It's simply a sign of adaptation according to the latest research. It has something to do with the connective tissue surrounding the muscle, not damage to the muscle fibers.

Pros are bigger today due to the drugs, period. Not because they rest more.

candidizzle

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Most of the growth from training comes in the first few hours after the session. Mentzer thought that you recovered first, which he thought took many days, followed by growth. That's not correct. Protein synthesis is highest immediately after. Protein synthesis is back to baseline after 48 hours in a steroid free athlete = after 48 hours you are not growing anymore. When using steroids you will have an artificially heightened protein synthesis for longer but it still makes sense that you'd want to stimulate growth as frequently as possible.

Soreness doesn't mean "muscle breakdown" either in case you think that. It's simply a sign of adaptation according to the latest research. It has something to do with the connective tissue surrounding the muscle, not damage to the muscle fibers.

Pros are bigger today due to the drugs, period. Not because they rest more.
YOU THINK ITS BEST TO TRAIN EVERY 48 HOURS THEN ?

CigaretteMan

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  Fro those of you who don't believe steroids are a big part of pro bodybuilding, I present you the 1990 Mr.Olympia, which was drug tested. "The Awesome One" was 20 lbs lighter than the previous year, and to make it even worse, softer.

Van_Bilderass

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YOU THINK ITS BEST TO TRAIN EVERY 48 HOURS THEN ?
You still have to consider overlapping stress to some bodyparts and just general stress to the whole system. But if I wanted to bring up a particular bodypart I think training it twice a week or even say mon/wed/fri would be superior to just once a week. Training everything as hard as possible every 48 hours would be too much I think.

candidizzle

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You still have to consider overlapping stress to some bodyparts and just general stress to the whole system. But if I wanted to bring up a particular bodypart I think training it twice a week or even say mon/wed/fri would be superior to just once a week. Training everything as hard as possible every 48 hours would be too much I think.
WITH 600+ GRAMS OF PROTEIN, SUFFICIENT CARBS, TONS OF HORMONES ?

Van_Bilderass

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WITH 600+ GRAMS OF PROTEIN, SUFFICIENT CARBS, TONS OF HORMONES ?
Yeah still too much. Try doing all-out deadlifts and squats 3 times a week. Actually that might work in blocks of a few weeks but not year round IMO.

candidizzle

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MENTALLY OR PHYSIOLOGICALLY?

YOU THINK THAAT THE CNS REALLY HAS TO "RECOVER" ..   ?? ALA H.I.T. MIKE MENTZER...  ??   CUZ FOR THE FIRST COUPL YEARS I WAS TRAINING I NEVER STOPPED GAINING AND I TRAINED 7 DAYS PER WEEK..NEVER MISSED A DAY...     

MCWAY

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 Fro those of you who don't believe steroids are a big part of pro bodybuilding, I present you the 1990 Mr.Olympia, which was drug tested. "The Awesome One" was 20 lbs lighter than the previous year, and to make it even worse, softer.

Haney didn't look that bad. Now, if you really want to make your point, use the 1992 WBF Championship.

No Patience

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Bob you are correct that the drugs can't make you ripped without a rigid diet or give you the ideal pro shape and overall tie-ins for the muscle groups, etc..The drugs can't lift the wts for you , do your cardio or eat your meals.But, as you pointed out the best pros TODAY are a LOT bigger than Arnold in his prime.

1.What the extreme modern drug use did do, was take the genetic freaks and expand what they can build above/beyond "normal means". The best guys would still look great, just smaller and less freaky.
I bet without drugs, Dexter would still be ripped, Jay would be wide and Bob Chic would have that freaky thigh sweep, etc.

2. Since the expected norm in pro bodybuilding has been established with drugs, it would be hard to accept a drop in mass and freaky cuts by many fans and judges. However, as the pros get bigger and more freaky looking , the number who prefer the "golden era" look of Arnold , Sergio , and Zane ,is growing.

3. In my humble opinion, the most practical solution is a combination of the following:
a) Tighter adherence by the IFBB judges of the Jim Manion "belly ban" edict. Judge the OVERALL asspects of based on an EQUAL  combination of mass, cuts, shape and balance.

(b)High quality show production complete with a digital surrond sound and modern stage lighting.

(c) The pros need to concentate on doing a professional looking routine and act with some level of sportsmanship when getting awards.

hahahahaha.....Bob has to have some of the worst legs in the biz while juiced to the gills, without the "help", his legs would be comical

njflex

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Haney didn't look that bad. Now, if you really want to make your point, use the 1992 WBF Championship.
he didn't,but everybody raved about the smaller bbers that yr,like it was due to being drug free.labrada,benfatto,hillebrand,all got in shape and looked good,but it wasn't like a miracle due to 1 yr drug free olympia.these guys know what and when to do,and most were well prepared to adjust accordingly.

CigaretteMan

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Haney didn't look that bad. Now, if you really want to make your point, use the 1992 WBF Championship.

  He didn't look that bad compared to the average gym rat, but he was a shell of his former self. He had 30 lbs of muscle less and 10 lbs more fat compared to the previous year. This probably explains why he was 20 lbs lighter and yet at the same time softer.

MCWAY

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  He didn't look that bad compared to the average gym rat, but he was a shell of his former self. He had 30 lbs of muscle less and 10 lbs more fat compared to the previous year. This probably explains why he was 20 lbs lighter and yet at the same time softer.

Haney didn't lose that much weight.

Again, if you REALLY want to see a drastic difference, check out some of the guys at the 1992 WBF Championship, especially one "Iron Warrior", Mike Christian.

Keep in mind that, at the time of the competition, the WBF had only applied its drug-testing protocols for three months.