Typical Obama supporters.

[Hustle Man]

lol, most of those are called wedge issues

And your point is?

[The ChemistV2]

I agree.  Crime correlates with income, education, and home life.  You do not see many educated people of any race committing violent crimes. 

This violent crime is genetic argument is baseless.

There are literally millions of poor, uneducated whites, living in trailers all throughout the Mid-west, the south, etc. Yet you don't see thousands of them joining gangs, wanting to murder or rob someone just to impress their "Homies" and get street cred. This income/education excuse is not reality. Of course, there are many poor white violent offenders, but they are greatly outnumbered by their black counterparts. If it's not genetics, that leaves only the explanation of a cultural propensity towards crime. Look at Haiti, Africa and other so called third-world countries. Ever wonder why these places can never rise above poverty, violence, and dysfunction? Why were the white Europeans able to progress and have civilized establishments for centuries and these other countries live in squalor? Once in a while, I think one has to take off their politically correct blinders and see Reality.

[Hustle Man]

There are literally millions of poor, uneducated whites, living in trailers all throughout the Mid-west, the south, etc. Yet you don't see thousands of them joining gangs, wanting to murder or rob someone just to impress their "Homies" and get street cred. This income/education excuse is not reality. Of course, there are many poor white violent offenders, but they are greatly outnumbered by their black counterparts. If it's not genetics, that leaves only the explanation of a cultural propensity towards crime. Look at Haiti, Africa and other so called third-world countries. Ever wonder why these places can never rise above poverty, violence, and dysfunction? Why were the white Europeans able to progress and have civilized establishments for centuries and these other countries live in squalor? Once in a while, I think one has to take off their politically correct blinders and see Reality.

I have been on every continent and as far as I can tell; poverty, violence, and dysfunction does not discriminate. The Europeans don't publicize their cultural woes like the USA does.

All Europeans are not Caucasian! The UK is a dump, Italy is a dump and every post USSR country is a dump. Oh what about India? Oh yeah they have brown skin so they must be genetically deficient.

Stop flattering yourself!

[Dos Equis]

There are literally millions of poor, uneducated whites, living in trailers all throughout the Mid-west, the south, etc. Yet you don't see thousands of them joining gangs, wanting to murder or rob someone just to impress their "Homies" and get street cred. This income/education excuse is not reality. Of course, there are many poor white violent offenders, but they are greatly outnumbered by their black counterparts. If it's not genetics, that leaves only the explanation of a cultural propensity towards crime. Look at Haiti, Africa and other so called third-world countries. Ever wonder why these places can never rise above poverty, violence, and dysfunction? Why were the white Europeans able to progress and have civilized establishments for centuries and these other countries live in squalor? Once in a while, I think one has to take off their politically correct blinders and see Reality.

A few points:

1.  Crime is not genetic.

2.  This has nothing to do with political correctness, which is a nice buzz phrase some use to deflect attention away from arguments that have no factual basis.  I do believe political correctness is a problem, but not when there is a discussion about whether crime is genetic.

3.  It's interesting how some people latch on to distorted statistics to support what in reality are their own racist beliefs, but run like scalded dogs when those statistics make their own group look pretty bad.  For instance, how do you explain the disproportionate number of pedophiles, serial killers, and mass murderers who are white?  Is that genetic?  I don't think so, but it's the same illogical conclusion reached by those on this race/crime thing.  

4.  I think it's almost comical how people will say the prevalence of successful minorities is the result of affirmative action, the prevalence of minorities in sports is because they have a genetic advantage, the supposed disproportionate number of minorities involved in violent crime is because they are genetically intellectually inferior.  None of it makes any sense.        

[OzmO]

I have been on every continent and as far as I can tell; poverty, violence, and dysfunction does not discriminate. The Europeans don't publicize their cultural woes like the USA does.

All Europeans are not Caucasian! The UK is a dump, Italy is a dump and every post USSR country is a dump. Oh what about India? Oh yeah they have brown skin so they must be genetically deficient.

Stop flattering yourself!

A few points:

1.  Crime is not genetic.

2.  This has nothing to do with political correctness, which is a nice buzz phrase some use to deflect attention away from arguments that have no factual basis.  I do believe political correctness is a problem, but not when there is a discussion about whether crime is genetic.

3.  It's interesting how some people latch on to distorted statistics to support what in reality are their own racist beliefs, but run like scalded dogs when those statistics make their own group look pretty bad.  For instance, how do you explain the disproportionate number of pedophiles, serial killers, and mass murderers who are white?  Is that genetic?  I don't think so, but it's the same illogical conclusion reached by those on this race/crime thing. 

4.  I think it's almost comical how people will say the prevalence of successful minorities is the result of affirmative action, the prevalence of minorities in sports is because they have a genetic advantage, the supposed disproportionate number of minorities involved in violent crime is because they are genetically intellectually inferior.  None of it makes any sense.         

All good stuff.

[JBGRAY]

I believe we can generally agree that crime and skin color are not directly correlated to each other in terms of genetics, but in hard facts, it is, if one were to look at the various FBI crime statistics.  US blacks commit by far a disproportionate amount of a large category of various crimes in comparison to other ethnic groups.  It is obvious that socioeconomic and poverty factors do not alone or overwhelmingly contribute to how and why crimes are committed. 

Like Chemist said, there are a plethora of communities made up of various ethnicities throughout the US that are further below the poverty line than comparable to other black groups that have much lower crime rates(the poorer white communities in West Virginia, border/shanty-towns along the SW border, divisions of "Chinatown", etc.).  However, there is ONE comparison that no one has yet looked at.

Which group contains the most groups and "Leaders" representing the ethnic group?  Which group calls for Reparations?  Which group takes a larger percentage of social handouts?  Which group wields more power in terms of political correctness and social sensitivities?  It's people such as Sharpton, Jackson, Wright, the King children, the NAACP, the Urban League, and other various "civil rights" organizations that work fervently to keep racial tensions high and blacks on the bottom rung of the ladder.  These folks make MILLIONS AND MILLIONS by keeping blacks in the dirt....making public education laughable in terms of challenge, stupidly high incarceration rates(something outside of the black community and in the hands of politicians), looking to whites for money and social services.  The true racists are these unelected leaders and co-conspirators in the Democrat and Republican parties who continue to support destructive policies such as affirmative action, race-based quotas, racial politics, and heightened sensitivities.  Thanks!  And thank you to all the lawyers who await in the back with predatory eyes and sharp teeth looking to pounce and make millions off anything insensitive.

[Option D]

Bump for big mal or tre to answer this, we answered your question.

My bad. hadnt been on much. But i think the reason starts with education. I would say education and money but money leads back to education. So with that as a basis. It is an inacurate and irresponsible to compare poor blacks with rich whites. Compare people of the same SEC (socio econamic status)  and you will get most of the same trends no matter what race. Because along the same lines you theorize blacks are born predisposed to breaking laws. All you have to do is find a black that hasnt broken the law and that theory is out of the window. You can take a black kid and at birth placed him with a rich successful educated family more than likley he will take on those values and become educated and successful. As well as if you take a poor white kid and place him in Robert Johnsons house he will mold into a rich successful educated man.

I say all that to say you have to look deeper than skin to rationalize some of the social trends that on the surface seem affect a certian race.

[Tre]

There are literally millions of poor, uneducated whites, living in trailers all throughout the Mid-west, the south, etc. Yet you don't see thousands of them joining gangs, wanting to murder or rob someone just to impress their "Homies" and get street cred. This income/education excuse is not reality.

Next you're going to tell us that White Aryan Resistance membership comes largely from America's more affluent suburbs. 

[The ChemistV2]

Next you're going to tell us that White Aryan Resistance membership comes largely from America's more affluent suburbs. 

Probably not, but when's the last time you heard of someone getting car-jacked by one of these guys?

[Option D]

I believe we can generally agree that crime and skin color are not directly correlated to each other in terms of genetics, but in hard facts, it is, if one were to look at the various FBI crime statistics.  US blacks commit by far a disproportionate amount of a large category of various crimes in comparison to other ethnic groups.  It is obvious that socioeconomic and poverty factors do not alone or overwhelmingly contribute to how and why crimes are committed. 

Like Chemist said, there are a plethora of communities made up of various ethnicities throughout the US that are further below the poverty line than comparable to other black groups that have much lower crime rates(the poorer white communities in West Virginia, border/shanty-towns along the SW border, divisions of "Chinatown", etc.).  However, there is ONE comparison that no one has yet looked at.

Which group contains the most groups and "Leaders" representing the ethnic group?  Which group calls for Reparations?  Which group takes a larger percentage of social handouts?  Which group wields more power in terms of political correctness and social sensitivities?  It's people such as Sharpton, Jackson, Wright, the King children, the NAACP, the Urban League, and other various "civil rights" organizations that work fervently to keep racial tensions high and blacks on the bottom rung of the ladder.  These folks make MILLIONS AND MILLIONS by keeping blacks in the dirt....making public education laughable in terms of challenge, stupidly high incarceration rates(something outside of the black community and in the hands of politicians), looking to whites for money and social services.  The true racists are these unelected leaders and co-conspirators in the Democrat and Republican parties who continue to support destructive policies such as affirmative action, race-based quotas, racial politics, and heightened sensitivities.  Thanks!  And thank you to all the lawyers who await in the back with predatory eyes and sharp teeth looking to pounce and make millions off anything insensitive.

spoken for truth but. Racial tensions are high because of "the boy who cried wolf" syndrome. when the don imus thing gets front page but the uneven distabution of funds between public schools in the same county that happen to differ in race, dosent get a whisper in the news or from mr sharpton (whom i have written numerous letters to bringing attention to the situation)...we will never be taken serious in this nation.

[Option D]

Probably not, but when's the last time you heard of someone getting car-jacked by one of these guys?

na they just tie them to the back of their trucks and drag people

[Dos Equis]

You obviously have never read FBI crime statistics which illustrate the truth quite clearly. I am not a racist as anyone who knows me could tell you. I have several good friends who are Black, and even they aren't happy with the tremendouss amount of criminals in their community. In fact they look down on all the gang-banging, underwear out their pants types. But I am right about huge cultural differences when it comes to crime. When the OJ Simpson verdict was announced, millions of blacks across the country cheered. That's when I saw, not only are they not upset the man killed someone, they cheered him on! Obviously, Murder doesn't have the same meaning in that community. Yeah, I know..he was found innocent, by a predominately Black jury. If one of my white quarterback idols had the exact set of same circumstances, you can bet I and the rest of white America wouldn't cheer him on. Definitely a cultural difference.

Yes I have looked at FBI crime statistics.  There are at least two problems with those statistics:

1.  They don't segregate statistics based on income and education.  

2.  They don't explain how they determine race.  Is there a blood quantum?  Do they use visual IDs?  Do you realize how many mixed race people there are in this country?  I would be willing to wager that the people responsible for compiling these statistics use the "looks black, must be black" method.  If there is any significant number of mixed race people in these so-called statistics (as I’m sure there must be), then they are unreliable.

I don't know you,  so I'm not about to call you a racist, but I will say your arguments are used by racists all the time to try and justify their bigotry.

And let me point out that I'm not in any way trying to justify or excuse anyone who commits a crime.  If someone breaks the law, they need to suffer the consequences, whether they are black, white, green, purple, rich, poor, educated, uneducated, etc.      

[The ChemistV2]

na they just tie them to the back of their trucks and drag people

Ok, you won that round!

[The ChemistV2]

Yes I have looked at FBI crime statistics.  There are at least two problems with those statistics:

1.  They don't segregate statistics based on income and education.  

2.  They don't explain how they determine race.  Is there a blood quantum?  Do they use visual IDs?  Do you realize how many mixed race people there are in this country?  I would be willing to wager that the people responsible for compiling these statistics use the "looks black, must be black" method.  If there is any significant number of mixed race people in these so-called statistics (as I’m sure there must be), then they are unreliable.

I don't know you,  so I'm not about to call you a racist, but I will say your arguments are used by racists all the time to try and justify their bigotry.

And let me point out that I'm not in any way trying to justify or excuse anyone who commits a crime.  If someone breaks the law, they need to suffer the consequences, whether they are black, white, green, purple, rich, poor, educated, uneducated, etc.      

Thank you. And it's true I'm not a racist. In fact, I'm just trying to open a dialogue and hear opinions. On the internet, you can usually hear what people really think. The questions I raise probably go through the minds of millions of people, but they can not ask them in Public Forums without being branded a racist. As a film maker, I have considered making a documentary where numerous people white and black are asked to honestly express their views on each other. I think it would be a great film and the dialogue could eventually foster more understanding and acceptance between the races. Get things out in the open..and then listen to the other guy. I want to apologize if I've come across as a racist since I am not.

[240 is Back]

I have been on every continent

you have been to antarctica?

[Dos Equis]

Thank you. And it's true I'm not a racist. In fact, I'm just trying to open a dialogue and hear opinions. On the internet, you can usually hear what people really think. The questions I raise probably go through the minds of millions of people, but they can not ask them in Public Forums without being branded a racist. As a film maker, I have considered making a documentary where numerous people white and black are asked to honestly express their views on each other. I think it would be a great film and the dialogue could eventually foster more understanding and acceptance between the races. Get things out in the open..and then listen to the other guy. I want to apologize if I've come across as a racist since I am not.

I like your idea and I'm glad you started this discussion.  It's always good to discuss these issues, particularly when someone is being sincere like you are.  

There are some tough questions that need to be asked.  There are some cold hard facts facing some segments of our society.  Where I get hung up is when people try and use the broad brush approach to label people based in innate characteristics.  

[Hugo Chavez]

This country is f**ked.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=25f_1210495294

You think those are typical supporters

[Hustle Man]

you have been to antarctica?

Yes

[tonymctones]

My bad. hadnt been on much. But i think the reason starts with education. I would say education and money but money leads back to education. So with that as a basis. It is an inacurate and irresponsible to compare poor blacks with rich whites. Compare people of the same SEC (socio econamic status)  and you will get most of the same trends no matter what race. Because along the same lines you theorize blacks are born predisposed to breaking laws. All you have to do is find a black that hasnt broken the law and that theory is out of the window. You can take a black kid and at birth placed him with a rich successful educated family more than likley he will take on those values and become educated and successful. As well as if you take a poor white kid and place him in Robert Johnsons house he will mold into a rich successful educated man.

I say all that to say you have to look deeper than skin to rationalize some of the social trends that on the surface seem affect a certian race.

No Problem
I agree to a certain extent, it seems like your leaning towards the enviroment as the main cause which I totally agree with. Which leads to another question, why expose yourself to that enviroment?, I went to a pretty good public high school in Houston although I lived in probably one of the lowest income neighborhoods to attend that high school. If your children are forced to attend a crappy school b/c of where you live then move. Here in Houston we have probably 2 or 3 government assisted apartments that attend either my high school or one in the same district. What it all boils down to is personal choice, whether to do the school work or skip school and get in trouble, whether to get a legit job or to slang shit on the street etc..., it is your choice and sooner or later you have to take responsibility for your actions no matter what your circumstances.

[240 is Back]

Yes

holy crap.  you rock.

[Hustle Man]

holy crap.  you rock.

Not really just serving my country. 

[Option D]

No Problem
I agree to a certain extent, it seems like your leaning towards the enviroment as the main cause which I totally agree with. Which leads to another question, why expose yourself to that enviroment?, I went to a pretty good public high school in Houston although I lived in probably one of the lowest income neighborhoods to attend that high school. If your children are forced to attend a crappy school b/c of where you live then move. Here in Houston we have probably 2 or 3 government assisted apartments that attend either my high school or one in the same district. What it all boils down to is personal choice, whether to do the school work or skip school and get in trouble, whether to get a legit job or to slang shit on the street etc..., it is your choice and sooner or later you have to take responsibility for your actions no matter what your circumstances.

SPOKEN FOR TRUTH AND ACCURACY.

[JBGRAY]

spoken for truth but. Racial tensions are high because of "the boy who cried wolf" syndrome. when the don imus thing gets front page but the uneven distabution of funds between public schools in the same county that happen to differ in race, dosent get a whisper in the news or from mr sharpton (whom i have written numerous letters to bringing attention to the situation)...we will never be taken serious in this nation.

I agree that the media simply makes non-issues into issues and issues that should be issues to not even be mentioned.  However, I must differ with you on your assumption that school and public education performance is based upon funding.  Even the lesser funded schools in the US are still heads and shoulders, financially anyways, above the majority of the rest of the world.  I must ask..................... ......


-How is it that immigrant children from much, much poorer regions overseas come here and outperform America's kids on very consistent levels?  Whether these kids are from the rural Philippines, old communist block of Eastern Europe, or the badlands of Pakistan, they make our kids look absolutely stupid, whether those kids are from a public school in the inner city or a private school sitting on the hillside.

-Why is it, that despite being a nation of 300+ million, that we are at a lack for skilled engineers and other technicians?  Why are companies recruiting overseas?

-Why do our institutions pace the curriculum at the pace of the dumbest kid in the class?  Why are failures and funding directly correlated to each other? 

-Why are students woefully prepared for college beyond high school(or anything, for that matter).

I can tell you one reason why none of this is, and it isn't due to lack of funding.  This is cultural and also deliberate.

[shootfighter1]

Its a mix of cultural, environmental influences and $.  At the rate we are going, its hard to see how things are going to improve.  I am particularly angry at people like Sharpton & Jackson who make things worse for what they consider "their own people".  F them.  Your "own people" are friends and people who really care about you!

[youandme]

And your point is?

those are the exact issues used to divide people...in the end they really don't matter.