Author Topic: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization  (Read 3774 times)

OzmO

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2008, 08:42:04 PM »
I'll concede everything you said above because i love this point you made:

PNAC document, (written by cheney, jeb, rummy and wolfy and bolton) talked about a new pearl harbor justifying series of wars to justify setting up permanent bases and control oil flow.

Is it jsut a coincidence that is exactly what is happening? 

And, are you saying that Bush/Cheney admin is working "actively" to prevent their very own clearly defined goals from completion?

A PNAC doc written before 9/11?  Not surprising.  Contingently planning is a past time for those in the military.  Heck, if Fiji launch an invasion of California i wouldn't be surprised if there was a plan for that.  And then you'd be here saying it really was a BUSH scam becuase of a contingency plan. 

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2008, 08:42:19 PM »
We are occupying Iraq.  And we are actively trying not to.

PNAC document, (written by cheney, jeb, rummy and wolfy and bolton) talked about a new pearl harbor justifying series of wars to justify setting up permanent bases and control oil flow.

Is it jsut a coincidence that is exactly what is happening?  

And, are you saying that Bush/Cheney admin is working "actively" to prevent their very own clearly defined goals from completion?

Are you saying this, seriously?  I mean to me, it looks like everything is working exactly as they said they'd to it.  What possible evidence do you have that "And we are actively trying not to (occupy Iraq)"?

I have evidence, called the pnac document, that we worked very hard according to a very detailed plan, to occupy them.  What evidence do you have that we're "actively trying not to"?

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2008, 08:42:57 PM »
BD and 240:

Is Japan a colony of the USA?

Because they meet the similar requirements you are apply to Iraq.

Because if they are,  i want a dam discount the next time a buy a Sony flat screen!

I'll have to post the whole article or provide a link, which I forgot to do intially. I took out what I found interesting in the article  so it may not fit the context of the actual thread title. If I can find it, I'll get it on here.


OzmO

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2008, 08:43:14 PM »

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2008, 08:45:15 PM »
Plus were reeally talking about laying a foundation for colonization.

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2008, 08:45:29 PM »
A PNAC doc written before 9/11?  Not surprising.  Contingently planning is a past time for those in the military.  Heck, if Fiji launch an invasion of California i wouldn't be surprised if there was a plan for that.  And then you'd be here saying it really was a BUSH scam becuase of a contingency plan. 

no - this wasn't a contingency plan - it was written 6 months before the 2000 election by a private thinktank of all these smart people.

now, these smart people run the country, and the war has been 6 years that exactly followed their blueprint.

I'm really surprised here.  maybe you're jsut being adversarial for the fun of it.  They're doing exactly what they said we should do, and now this contract shows that 1/2 of the goals of the PNAC document has been met (dozens of bases for unlimited timeframe).

OzmO

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2008, 08:48:05 PM »
PNAC document, (written by cheney, jeb, rummy and wolfy and bolton) talked about a new pearl harbor justifying series of wars to justify setting up permanent bases and control oil flow.

Is it jsut a coincidence that is exactly what is happening? 

And, are you saying that Bush/Cheney admin is working "actively" to prevent their very own clearly defined goals from completion?

Are you saying this, seriously?  I mean to me, it looks like everything is working exactly as they said they'd to it.  What possible evidence do you have that "And we are actively trying not to (occupy Iraq)"?

I have evidence, called the pnac document, that we worked very hard according to a very detailed plan, to occupy them.  What evidence do you have that we're "actively trying not to"?

Sorry man,  I'll answer fully  later tomorrow.  I'm tired.  Got to get up a 5:00am.  Cardio, back and bi's  ;D

Like i said i'm sure they have all sorts of plans, but the fact is, they are working to stabilize the country.  Maybe on a CT level you might think it's not true.  But what real evidence is there to the contrary?

Other than it took them 4 years to come up with the "surge plan"   hmmmmmm    (looks left, looks right...........turns out the lights)

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2008, 08:48:51 PM »
Plus were reeally talking about laying a foundation for colonization.

Good point.  I've booked passage on the Mayflower all ready.   ;D

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2008, 08:50:44 PM »
i think we want stability there, yes.

but i think we also want to guarantee a need for our presence, hence our "arming both sunni and shiite" as GAO reveals we have been.

that would prove we're not actively trying THAT hard.

later!

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2008, 08:51:52 PM »
no - this wasn't a contingency plan - it was written 6 months before the 2000 election by a private thinktank of all these smart people.

now, these smart people run the country, and the war has been 6 years that exactly followed their blueprint.

I'm really surprised here.  maybe you're jsut being adversarial for the fun of it.  They're doing exactly what they said we should do, and now this contract shows that 1/2 of the goals of the PNAC document has been met (dozens of bases for unlimited timeframe).


No, all I'm saying is that there hundreds of thousands of plans for all kinds of things.  just becuase there was a plan for something like this doesn't mean the whole thing was pre-meditated.

I am being a bit adversarial becuase the idea we are colonizing Iraq is silly.  We are occupying it.  Please feel free to apply some of what you measured Iraq with to Japan.  Japan is not our colony yet much of what you said applies.

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2008, 08:52:47 PM »
i think we want stability there, yes.

but i think we also want to guarantee a need for our presence, hence our "arming both sunni and shiite" as GAO reveals we have been.

that would prove we're not actively trying THAT hard.

later!

gn   ;D

i really don't think we needed to help them.  There is too  much to gain for those that oppose us.

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2008, 08:53:34 PM »
I am being a bit adversarial becuase the idea we are colonizing Iraq is silly.  We are occupying it. 


fair enough.

we're staying long enough to get the oil.

oh, and we're keeping bases there to cook any country in the region.

both good ideas.  I'll concede it's not colonialism by dictionary sense, rather, it's straight jacking them.

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2008, 09:55:38 PM »
lebensraum

sweet

OzmO

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2008, 06:43:03 AM »

fair enough.

we're staying long enough to get the oil.

oh, and we're keeping bases there to cook any country in the region.

both good ideas.  I'll concede it's not colonialism by dictionary sense, rather, it's straight jacking them.

You should know we are jacking them for their own good   ;D

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2008, 06:47:41 AM »
You should know we are jacking them for their own good   ;D


haha feisty.  cardio, back, biceps and sleep in that short of time?  I'm impressed.  I watched Dora the Explorer then went to the playground.


ToxicAvenger

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #40 on: May 13, 2008, 06:56:09 AM »
So how is it we are colonizing the place?

Looks like a set up to give a free hand to act militarily.  Not a bad idea considering the instability of the region and the people's inability to govern themselves.

tomorrow i'm gonna visit your house...set fire to half of it and then offer to help build it..

o..while helping i'll set up perm residence


you seem to be ok with such so why not!
carpe` vaginum!

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2008, 07:01:23 AM »
tomorrow i'm gonna visit your house...set fire to half of it and then offer to help build it..

o..while helping i'll set up perm residence


you seem to be ok with such so why not!


hahahaha kill the landlord (saddam), burn down half the house (shock n awe), offer to rebuild it, but require one room rent-free for life (bases) and free access to all the food in fridge (oil)

OzmO

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2008, 07:01:51 AM »

haha feisty.  cardio, back, biceps and sleep in that short of time?  I'm impressed.  I watched Dora the Explorer then went to the playground.



hehehe,  not that much of a work out.  

OzmO

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2008, 07:04:32 AM »
tomorrow i'm gonna visit your house...set fire to half of it and then offer to help build it..

o..while helping i'll set up perm residence


you seem to be ok with such so why not!

I feel great about it.   

What you did was burn half my house down to find and kill a evil termite. 

But we will call that fighting for freedom.

ToxicAvenger

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2008, 07:16:57 AM »
I feel great about it.   

What you did was burn half my house down to find and kill a evil termite. 

But we will call that fighting for freedom.

you'r not gonna be mad if some of your family also died along the way r ya?
carpe` vaginum!

a_joker10

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #45 on: May 13, 2008, 07:52:29 AM »
Project for a new American Century is an organization not a document.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/
This is the 2000 document you keep referring to,
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
from section V CREATING TOMORROW’S DOMINANT FORCE

"Any serious effort at transformation must occur within the larger framework of U.S. national security strategy, military missions and defense budgets. The United States cannot simply declare a “strategic pause"
while experimenting with new technologies and operational concepts. Nor can it choose to pursue a transformation strategy that would decouple
American and allied interests.
A transformation strategy that solely pursued capabilities for projecting force from the United States, for example, and sacrificed forward basing and presence, would be at odds with larger American policy goals and would trouble American allies.
Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor. Domestic politics and  industrial policy will shape the pace and content of transformation as much as the requirements of current missions. A decision to suspend or terminate aircraft carrier production, as recommended by this report and as justified by the clear direction of military technology, will cause great upheaval. Likewise, systems entering production today – the F-22 fighter, for example – will be in service inventories for decades to come. Wise management of this process will consist in large measure of figuring out the right moments to halt production of current-paradigm weapons and shift to radically new designs. The expense associated with some programs can make them roadblocks to the larger process of transformation – the Joint Strike Fighter program, at a total of approximately $200 billion, seems an unwise investment. Thus, this report advocates a two-stage process of change – transition and transformation – over the coming decades."

PROJECT PARTICIPANTS
Roger Barnett
U.S. Naval War College

Alvin Bernstein
National Defense University

Stephen Cambone
National Defense University

Eliot Cohen
Nitze School of Advanced International
Studies, Johns Hopkins University

Devon Gaffney Cross
Donors' Forum for International Affairs

Thomas Donnelly
Project for the New American Century

David Epstein
Office of Secretary of Defense,
Net Assessment

David Fautua
Lt. Col., U.S. Army

Dan Goure
Center for Strategic and International Studies

Donald Kagan
Yale University

Fred Kagan
U. S. Military Academy at West Point

Robert Kagan
Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

Robert Killebrew
Col., USA (Ret.)

William Kristol
The Weekly Standard

Mark Lagon
Senate Foreign Relations Committee

James Lasswell
GAMA Corporation

I. Lewis Libby
Dechert Price & Rhoads

Robert Martinage
Center for Strategic and Budgetary
Assessment

Phil Meilinger
U.S. Naval War College

Mackubin Owens
U.S. Naval War College

Steve Rosen
Harvard University

Gary Schmitt
Project for the New American Century

Abram Shulsky
The RAND Corporation

Michael Vickers
Center for Strategic and Budgetary
Assessment

Barry Watts
Northrop Grumman Corporation

Paul Wolfowitz
Nitze School of Advanced International
Studies, Johns Hopkins University

Dov Zakheim
System Planning Corporation

Statement of Principles for their organization.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm
June 3, 1997

American foreign and defense policy is adrift. Conservatives have criticized the incoherent policies of the Clinton Administration. They have also resisted isolationist impulses from within their own ranks. But conservatives have not confidently advanced a strategic vision of America's role in the world. They have not set forth guiding principles for American foreign policy. They have allowed differences over tactics to obscure potential agreement on strategic objectives. And they have not fought for a defense budget that would maintain American security and advance American interests in the new century.

We aim to change this. We aim to make the case and rally support for American global leadership.

As the 20th century draws to a close, the United States stands as the world's preeminent power. Having led the West to victory in the Cold War, America faces an opportunity and a challenge: Does the United States have the vision to build upon the achievements of past decades? Does the United States have the resolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests?

We are in danger of squandering the opportunity and failing the challenge. We are living off the capital -- both the military investments and the foreign policy achievements -- built up by past administrations. Cuts in foreign affairs and defense spending, inattention to the tools of statecraft, and inconstant leadership are making it increasingly difficult to sustain American influence around the world. And the promise of short-term commercial benefits threatens to override strategic considerations. As a consequence, we are jeopardizing the nation's ability to meet present threats and to deal with potentially greater challenges that lie ahead.

We seem to have forgotten the essential elements of the Reagan Administration's success: a military that is strong and ready to meet both present and future challenges; a foreign policy that boldly and purposefully promotes American principles abroad; and national leadership that accepts the United States' global responsibilities.

Of course, the United States must be prudent in how it exercises its power. But we cannot safely avoid the responsibilities of global leadership or the costs that are associated with its exercise. America has a vital role in maintaining peace and security in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. If we shirk our responsibilities, we invite challenges to our fundamental interests. The history of the 20th century should have taught us that it is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge, and to meet threats before they become dire. The history of this century should have taught us to embrace the cause of American leadership.

Our aim is to remind Americans of these lessons and to draw their consequences for today. Here are four consequences:

    • we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global
    responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;

    • we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;

    • we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;

    • we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.

Such a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity may not be fashionable today. But it is necessary if the United States is to build on the successes of this past century and to ensure our security and our greatness in the next.

Elliott Abrams     Gary Bauer     William J. Bennett     Jeb Bush

Dick Cheney    Eliot A. Cohen    Midge Decter    Paula Dobriansky    Steve Forbes

Aaron Friedberg    Francis Fukuyama    Frank Gaffney    Fred C. Ikle

Donald Kagan    Zalmay Khalilzad    I. Lewis Libby    Norman Podhoretz

Dan Quayle    Peter W. Rodman    Stephen P. Rosen    Henry S. Rowen

Donald Rumsfeld    Vin Weber    George Weigel    Paul Wolfowitz
Z

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #46 on: May 13, 2008, 07:53:07 AM »
yeah it's one-sided.
yeah it's what things were about all along.


But...

yeah, it makes us stronger in the world.  can't deny that.  so it's a good thing.
Unless you are a transnational corporation, I think anything inuring to your (or the USA's) benefit from this war is a fantasy.

Corporations have no allegiance to any country.  Reincorporating in a foreign land is easy.  Ask Halliburton about that.

Those corporations will sell its Iraqi oil to whomever will buy it.  The Grand Ol' US military is used as mafia muscle to make sure those corporations prosper b/c our political leaders want it so.

OzmO

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #47 on: May 13, 2008, 07:59:44 AM »
you'r not gonna be mad if some of your family also died along the way r ya?

We all must sacrifice for the greater good.   8)

ToxicAvenger

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #48 on: May 13, 2008, 08:32:17 AM »
We all must sacrifice for the greater good.   8)

so i figure you r gonna joint the army tomorrow!  8)
carpe` vaginum!

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Re: US laying foundation for Iraq colonization
« Reply #49 on: May 13, 2008, 08:35:11 AM »
so i figure you r gonna joint the army tomorrow!  8)

He does his part by facilitating discussion on this very awesome war.