Author Topic: Woman 'embraced' By Lion  (Read 4454 times)

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Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« on: May 30, 2008, 07:31:30 PM »
wow amazing


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Re: Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2008, 01:01:20 PM »
Cool  8)
.

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Re: Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2008, 10:38:47 PM »
She is taking a fat chance  >:(
Animals that big and strong are still wild at heart and can easily kill or seriously hurt some one with out trying.

Just out of interest last week here in SA a guy walked into a lion compound to give them water on a game farm.
All they found afterwards was a few fingers and his intestines.

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Re: Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2008, 11:22:43 AM »
She is taking a fat chance  >:(
Animals that big and strong are still wild at heart and can easily kill or seriously hurt some one with out trying.

Just out of interest last week here in SA a guy walked into a lion compound to give them water on a game farm.
All they found afterwards was a few fingers and his intestines.

LOL.  Ever watch a lion kill something?  They "hug it", then rake it, then deliver a neck bite while hugging it.  ;D


I agree, that woman is taking a huge chance. 

That said, I've had multiple clients with big cats---mainly mountian lions, servals, caracals, and tigers, but also african lions.  I have one client who keeps a leopard in her house with her.  Shes a wonderful person who really loves her cat.  I dont' think she should be keeping an animal like that as a pet or letting it loose in her house, but I'm not going to deny I think she does everything she possibly can to ensure that cat has as good a life as possible and she truely cares for him.   

I just get stuck on the leopard in the living room part for a few seconds.   ;)

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Re: Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2008, 12:29:24 PM »
LOL.  Ever watch a lion kill something?  They "hug it", then rake it, then deliver a neck bite while hugging it.  ;D


I agree, that woman is taking a huge chance. 

That said, I've had multiple clients with big cats---mainly mountian lions, servals, caracals, and tigers, but also african lions.  I have one client who keeps a leopard in her house with her.  Shes a wonderful person who really loves her cat. I dont' think she should be keeping an animal like that as a pet or letting it loose in her house, but I'm not going to deny I think she does everything she possibly can to ensure that cat has as good a life as possible and she truely cares for him.   

I just get stuck on the leopard in the living room part for a few seconds.   ;)

If she loved the cat, she should have left it in the wild or give it to a zoo. It's merely the attention and her own ego she loves. I saw one family that had a serval, they had it declawed because it was ripping into everybody. Now, this is a wild animal and how will it defend itself.

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Re: Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2008, 01:14:37 PM »
If she loved the cat, she should have left it in the wild or give it to a zoo. It's merely the attention and her own ego she loves. I saw one family that had a serval, they had it declawed because it was ripping into everybody. Now, this is a wild animal and how will it defend itself.

This particular owner got the leopard as part of a seizure out of an exotic animal auction.  Rescue is probably the best descriptive term. 

The didn't try to train the serval?


I guess I'm somewhat of a hypocrit because I will declaw a domestic cat if it becomes a matter of the cat needing to be declawed or the possibility of it being euthanized.  I've only owned cats that have had their front feet declawed. That said, I will not declaw an exotic cat unless there is an underlying medical need resulting in the declaw having to be done.  The complications with big cats are far greater than those with domestic cats becuase of differences in tendon insertion/paw structure.   I've worked with "broke down" big cats who walked on their wrists.  It wasn't pleasant for me and I'm certian is sure as hell wasn't pleasant for the cats.  Not only that, but I think declawing gives a false sense of security.  A tiger can still pop your head like a watermelon with one swipe with or without claws. 


As far as defending itself if its been declawed....if the serval was declawed in a manner that won't lead to breakdown and it has its hind feet claws, its quite capable of defending itself still without front claws. Its a misnomer that so many humans spread around about the cats not being able to defend themselves.  I've got scars from elbow to wrist from a "defenseless" declawed domestic cat.   Servals are by and large a quite capable species.  The bigger issue if its a 4 paw declaw is how will it affect the mental status of the cat. 

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Re: Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2008, 02:05:29 PM »
This particular owner got the leopard as part of a seizure out of an exotic animal auction.  Rescue is probably the best descriptive term. 

The didn't try to train the serval?


I guess I'm somewhat of a hypocrit because I will declaw a domestic cat if it becomes a matter of the cat needing to be declawed or the possibility of it being euthanized.  I've only owned cats that have had their front feet declawed. That said, I will not declaw an exotic cat unless there is an underlying medical need resulting in the declaw having to be done.  The complications with big cats are far greater than those with domestic cats becuase of differences in tendon insertion/paw structure.   I've worked with "broke down" big cats who walked on their wrists.  It wasn't pleasant for me and I'm certian is sure as hell wasn't pleasant for the cats.  Not only that, but I think declawing gives a false sense of security.  A tiger can still pop your head like a watermelon with one swipe with or without claws. 


As far as defending itself if its been declawed....if the serval was declawed in a manner that won't lead to breakdown and it has its hind feet claws, its quite capable of defending itself still without front claws. Its a misnomer that so many humans spread around about the cats not being able to defend themselves.  I've got scars from elbow to wrist from a "defenseless" declawed domestic cat.   Servals are by and large a quite capable species.  The bigger issue if its a 4 paw declaw is how will it affect the mental status of the cat. 

As far as the lady with the leopard, Leopards are known to be more ferocious than Lions, pound for pound, for a reason. For me, it's a level of trust, and  you can't trust a cat, period...Especially one that may outweigh you.
I don't like the way we train  Big Cats (the ones that roar) and Little Cats (the one's that don't roar), it's effort to make them semi-domesticated. I have always respected the wildness, if we truly going to Domesticate these animals, then they need to start breeding programs to breed the "wildness" out of these animals. Kinda like the Russian experiment with foxes raised for their fur.

I had a neighbor that had their cat declawed ( all four paws I believe), it was a male, that soon became a "bitch", so the owner had to keep him inside. 

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Re: Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2008, 10:25:40 PM »
ya when i first saw this i thought just a matter of time before we hear about this lady being mauled to death by one of her animals

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Re: Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2008, 11:34:44 AM »
that cat in the video looks and acts exactly like mine only I don't keep mine in a cage, and its hair is shorter,and its not the same color,and my cats a lot smaller.

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Re: Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2008, 03:12:19 PM »
As far as the lady with the leopard, Leopards are known to be more ferocious than Lions, pound for pound, for a reason. For me, it's a level of trust, and  you can't trust a cat, period...Especially one that may outweigh you.
I don't like the way we train  Big Cats (the ones that roar) and Little Cats (the one's that don't roar), it's effort to make them semi-domesticated. I have always respected the wildness, if we truly going to Domesticate these animals, then they need to start breeding programs to breed the "wildness" out of these animals. Kinda like the Russian experiment with foxes raised for their fur.

I had a neighbor that had their cat declawed ( all four paws I believe), it was a male, that soon became a "bitch", so the owner had to keep him inside. 

There are multigeneration "big cats" in the pet trade.  They've literally been captive and selectively bred for generations--since the late 1940's or so.   Ever notice how just about every circus and every roadside show (and to a degree every zoo) has a white tiger (typically Bengals, but Siberians also have the white genes)?  Its not because of prevelance of the genetic mutation, its because of selective breeding for public pleasure. 

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Re: Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2008, 08:04:25 PM »
wow amazing




that video's already been exposed as a fraud....

that's not a real lion !

it's a detroit lions mascot that they rented !

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Re: Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2008, 06:49:41 AM »
LOL.  Ever watch a lion kill something?  They "hug it", then rake it, then deliver a neck bite while hugging it.  ;D


I agree, that woman is taking a huge chance. 



Yes for sure!  Looks to me that woman is a few iron bars away from being mauled.  The lion is trying to pull her in to get a neck grab, if those bars were not there and that cat was in that possition on that woman I bet 100% that she would be killed. 

Animals like that (alright all animals, even your dog) dont have an emotional heart that remembers who "saved" them.  Those are human emotions being projected on the animal.  Looks to me that cat would have her in a neck hold in about 3 seconds.

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Re: Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2008, 09:50:38 AM »
Yes for sure!  Looks to me that woman is a few iron bars away from being mauled.  The lion is trying to pull her in to get a neck grab, if those bars were not there and that cat was in that possition on that woman I bet 100% that she would be killed. 

Animals like that (alright all animals, even your dog) dont have an emotional heart that remembers who "saved" them.  Those are human emotions being projected on the animal.  Looks to me that cat would have her in a neck hold in about 3 seconds.

I disagree with the emotions idea.   I fully think animals have emotions---from the thoroughbred getting pouty when my wife disciplins him, to the bird cussing when the graham cracker she's eating breaks, to the chimps at work fighting over which male can breed the female, to the elephants asserting dominance with each other.  Allo of those behaviors are governed by an animals equivilant of emotions. 

The problem is the human interpretation of what the animals are thinking.   Humans are so close minded they don't think outside of the box for themselves.  Its just like measuring intelligence.  Humans by and large try to measure animal intelligence using human guidelines.  Anything that falls out of that guideline is "dumb" no matter how the guidelines are compatable with that animals physiology. 

As far as the lion being guaranteed to eat her...well I don't know.  LIke I said before, I've seen people with big cats in their houses.   Hell, I've got two snapping turtles in my office---a juvenile common and a juvenile alligator snapper.   My technician can pick them up and walk around the office petting  them on the head and has never been bit.   They'll snap at someone else in a heartbeat, but not her....so far.   

I've got vinegar in my desk in case I have to extract her finger from one of their mouths some day.  I don't know if it'll happen or not. 

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Re: Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2008, 05:48:30 PM »
I disagree with the emotions idea.   I fully think animals have emotions---from the thoroughbred getting pouty when my wife disciplins him, to the bird cussing when the graham cracker she's eating breaks, to the chimps at work fighting over which male can breed the female, to the elephants asserting dominance with each other.  Allo of those behaviors are governed by an animals equivilant of emotions. 

The problem is the human interpretation of what the animals are thinking.   Humans are so close minded they don't think outside of the box for themselves.  Its just like measuring intelligence.  Humans by and large try to measure animal intelligence using human guidelines.  Anything that falls out of that guideline is "dumb" no matter how the guidelines are compatable with that animals physiology. 

As far as the lion being guaranteed to eat her...well I don't know.  LIke I said before, I've seen people with big cats in their houses.   Hell, I've got two snapping turtles in my office---a juvenile common and a juvenile alligator snapper.   My technician can pick them up and walk around the office petting  them on the head and has never been bit.   They'll snap at someone else in a heartbeat, but not her....so far.   

I've got vinegar in my desk in case I have to extract her finger from one of their mouths some day.  I don't know if it'll happen or not. 

I don't know vet.  Animals live in the present, they are not muddled down with all this "emotional baggage" that we humans hold on to. People project their own emotions on to animals.  Animals don't think of memories of their past or future.  They may display a conditioned response to situations that seems human emotion like to people, but nothing like human emotions.

You are describing behaviors they exhibit to a stimulus.

This is the beauty of them and one of the best leasons they can teach you.  Live for now.


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Re: Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2008, 11:18:30 PM »
I don't know vet.  Animals live in the present, they are not muddled down with all this "emotional baggage" that we humans hold on to. People project their own emotions on to animals.  Animals don't think of memories of their past or future.  They may display a conditioned response to situations that seems human emotion like to people, but nothing like human emotions.

You are describing behaviors they exhibit to a stimulus.

This is the beauty of them and one of the best leasons they can teach you.  Live for now.


I'll be honest with you, I grew up on a hog and cattle farm with over 5000 animals.  I work in a world of animals held in captivity.  This is one of those subjects I tend to mull over and over and over and over.   Basically I think I'm trying to understand, and prove to myself in my mind that we aren't doing something to unnecessarily stress species capable of way more intelligent thought than we give them credit for.   I don't know the correct answer and I'm not trying to claim I do.  I'm just trying to put my thoughts out there, feel free to chew on them.  I'm sure there are some big holes in my thoughts, I'm just not seeing them.   I also think that without a quantitative value you can actually measure (A number) there is no way to prove correct or false, the only thing you can do is relay experiences and try to deductively reason through them.   

I disagree with animals living for the present to a point.  Its real easy to simplify things and say animals "live in the present".  Personally, as I get older, I'm starting to think thats a human cop-out, although it does have some semblance of truth that cannot be denied.  In terms of domestic animals---which by and large are prey species except for dogs and cats---they do live for the moment, but when you consider wildlife, prior experiences can drammatically shape their behavior and their lives.   Domestic species can and do learn behavior and anticipate future stimuli---depending on the species.   Guide and other service dogs know how to anticipate what is going on around them to respond appropriately.   Horses are a prime example of learned behavior affecting their actions---for example a good cutting horse working a group of cattle will learn which steer is going to cut back on them and they will anticipate it, moving to intersect that steer.  Now the horse is under the guidance of the rider, so there is a point of contention, its not an absolute. 


Wildlife are a completely different world in my opinion, and the more I work with certian species, the more I'm convinced they absolutely do not "live in the present" as we tend to group domestic species.   One of the most stunning examples of this I've ever seen first hand is a juvenile (5-6 years old when it was first seen) chimpanzee who would take his own monkey biscuits (his food) hide it from the other chimps and then feed it to the water turtles that swam in the moat around their zoo exhibit.   This behavior was not taught by a human, but was taught by a teenage male chimpanzee and there is no idea where this chimp learned that behavior.   The thing is to do this, the juvenile had to preplan, set aside/hide food from the other chimps who would have eaten/hoarded it and then plan on how to feed the turtles without the other chimps taking the food from him.   This takes a considerable amount of preplanning.  Combine that with there not being a discernable reward---why would one animal feed another like that?  its a pretty complex behavior.   

Another example of something similar in a more domesticated species is my african grey dropping her food so that the dog will crawl under her cage attempting to eat it, then screaming the dogs name loudly to make him jump, bang his head, and run away, and then laughing like a maniac.  That bird has done this with different dogs now for years.   Again, whats the reward for the behavior?  Its pretty complex as far as I'm concerned. 



Just my thoughts at 1 AM.   Who knows, I may be blowing smoke out my ass. 

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Re: Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2008, 11:27:02 PM »
I don't know vet.  Animals live in the present, they are not muddled down with all this "emotional baggage" that we humans hold on to. People project their own emotions on to animals.  Animals don't think of memories of their past or future.  They may display a conditioned response to situations that seems human emotion like to people, but nothing like human emotions.

You are describing behaviors they exhibit to a stimulus.

This is the beauty of them and one of the best leasons they can teach you.  Live for now.



And I do agree completely and totally with you about humans projecting their emotions on animals.   People do that way too damned much in my opinion, and unfortunately it often isn't with the animals wellbeing in mind, although they claim it is.   

I'm just mulling over the animal having or not having emotions as we, as humans, have them.   

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Re: Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2008, 11:29:49 PM »
I'll be honest with you, I grew up on a hog and cattle farm with over 5000 animals.  I work in a world of animals held in captivity.  This is one of those subjects I tend to mull over and over and over and over.   Basically I think I'm trying to understand, and prove to myself in my mind that we aren't doing something to unnecessarily stress species capable of way more intelligent thought than we give them credit for.   I don't know the correct answer and I'm not trying to claim I do.  I'm just trying to put my thoughts out there, feel free to chew on them.  I'm sure there are some big holes in my thoughts, I'm just not seeing them.   I also think that without a quantitative value you can actually measure (A number) there is no way to prove correct or false, the only thing you can do is relay experiences and try to deductively reason through them.   

I disagree with animals living for the present to a point.  Its real easy to simplify things and say animals "live in the present".  Personally, as I get older, I'm starting to think thats a human cop-out, although it does have some semblance of truth that cannot be denied.  In terms of domestic animals---which by and large are prey species except for dogs and cats---they do live for the moment, but when you consider wildlife, prior experiences can drammatically shape their behavior and their lives.   Domestic species can and do learn behavior and anticipate future stimuli---depending on the species.   Guide and other service dogs know how to anticipate what is going on around them to respond appropriately.   Horses are a prime example of learned behavior affecting their actions---for example a good cutting horse working a group of cattle will learn which steer is going to cut back on them and they will anticipate it, moving to intersect that steer.  Now the horse is under the guidance of the rider, so there is a point of contention, its not an absolute. 


Wildlife are a completely different world in my opinion, and the more I work with certian species, the more I'm convinced they absolutely do not "live in the present" as we tend to group domestic species.   One of the most stunning examples of this I've ever seen first hand is a juvenile (5-6 years old when it was first seen) chimpanzee who would take his own monkey biscuits (his food) hide it from the other chimps and then feed it to the water turtles that swam in the moat around their zoo exhibit.   This behavior was not taught by a human, but was taught by a teenage male chimpanzee and there is no idea where this chimp learned that behavior.   The thing is to do this, the juvenile had to preplan, set aside/hide food from the other chimps who would have eaten/hoarded it and then plan on how to feed the turtles without the other chimps taking the food from him.   This takes a considerable amount of preplanning.  Combine that with there not being a discernable reward---why would one animal feed another like that?  its a pretty complex behavior.   

Another example of something similar in a more domesticated species is my african grey dropping her food so that the dog will crawl under her cage attempting to eat it, then screaming the dogs name loudly to make him jump, bang his head, and run away, and then laughing like a maniac.  That bird has done this with different dogs now for years.   Again, whats the reward for the behavior?  Its pretty complex as far as I'm concerned. 



Just my thoughts at 1 AM.   Who knows, I may be blowing smoke out my ass. 

Pretty cool. When I was a kid I used to read these books by Gerald Durrell, who was a zoo guy. your post reminded me of his writing.

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Re: Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2008, 08:32:12 AM »
Another example of something similar in a more domesticated species is my african grey dropping her food so that the dog will crawl under her cage attempting to eat it, then screaming the dogs name loudly to make him jump, bang his head, and run away, and then laughing like a maniac.  That bird has done this with different dogs now for years.   Again, whats the reward for the behavior?  Its pretty complex as far as I'm concerned. 


hilarious, you should post a vid of this...
i

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Re: Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2008, 11:40:25 AM »
The place I used to go to when I came to LA was a place where they train animals for the movies and TV.  My two friends ran it.  So a lot of times when I was in town I would go play with the lions, tigers and bears.  They had several big cats.  So one day my friend has me do exactly what that girl was doing.  I was scared as shit and it was bigger than that cat (it was a male lion too).  So the cat hugs me and they purr really cool.  and I was blowing in his nose and you could feel the strength was just incredible.  Anyway so we did that for about 10 or 15 seconds and the cat got down.  I kept petting it and everything was awesome.  Then my friend said now Keith back up and turn your back to him.  I said "why" and he said just turn around but get away from the cage.  So I backed up and then turned around.  OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The lion immediately jumped at the cage and growl so fucking loud I swear I almost passed out.  I turned around almost immediately and the lion got down and walked away.  I asked my friend what the hell was that and he said that was a signal for him to attack along with a hand gesture he did (that I didn't even notice).  I swear if you have ever seen up close (inches) how big, powerful and scary these lions (big cats) are in person it is an entirely different experience than seeing them on TV or youtube.  I remember feeding 6 or 8 big cats at once.  The fear you feel when they are yelling at you and grab a whole chicken from you like they have n't eaten in a week is just bone jarring.  I don't care who you think you are.  you are nothing compared to these cats.

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Re: Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2008, 09:46:14 PM »
The place I used to go to when I came to LA was a place where they train animals for the movies and TV.  My two friends ran it.  So a lot of times when I was in town I would go play with the lions, tigers and bears.  They had several big cats.  So one day my friend has me do exactly what that girl was doing.  I was scared as shit and it was bigger than that cat (it was a male lion too).  So the cat hugs me and they purr really cool.  and I was blowing in his nose and you could feel the strength was just incredible.  Anyway so we did that for about 10 or 15 seconds and the cat got down.  I kept petting it and everything was awesome.  Then my friend said now Keith back up and turn your back to him.  I said "why" and he said just turn around but get away from the cage.  So I backed up and then turned around.  OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The lion immediately jumped at the cage and growl so fucking loud I swear I almost passed out.  I turned around almost immediately and the lion got down and walked away.  I asked my friend what the hell was that and he said that was a signal for him to attack along with a hand gesture he did (that I didn't even notice).  I swear if you have ever seen up close (inches) how big, powerful and scary these lions (big cats) are in person it is an entirely different experience than seeing them on TV or youtube.  I remember feeding 6 or 8 big cats at once.  The fear you feel when they are yelling at you and grab a whole chicken from you like they have n't eaten in a week is just bone jarring.  I don't care who you think you are.  you are nothing compared to these cats.

LOL.  I think its an adrenalin rush, but thats me. 



My first "close" encounter with an African Lion was with a wild-caught female.   I was walking through the lion building at a zoo when this female suddenly launched herself off the platform on the side of the wall (it was a "sleeping platform" about 5 feet off the ground about 12 feet from the wire).  She hit the wire cage wall with full force about 2 1/2 feet infront of my head.  I just stood there. 


The vet and veterinary technician I was with gave me a really hard time because I just stood there.... apparently this female had done this before with other students and scared the living crap out of them... To this day I will say the same thing I said then... Had it not been for the wire of the cage, I would have been dead.  There was nothing anyone could have done about it, she would have killed me.   

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Re: Woman 'embraced' By Lion
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2008, 09:40:00 AM »