"Chubby" Yates 1994

[CigaretteMan]

but its bad next to this:

  I thougt we were talking of balance issues...in the case of Ray: too small.

[Hulkster]

  I thougt we were talking of balance issues...in the case of Ray: too small.

too small is still better than too crappy:

[CigaretteMan]

too small is still better than too crappy:

  You see, this is what you just don't get. Size is very important in bodybuilding. After all, it's called bodybuilding. The Mr.Olympia is about size first. You can't be Mr.Olympia at 205 lbs if there are guys with 50 lbs of muscle more than you, unless all of them have severe muscle imbalances. Now, Yates is not aestehtics, but he is very symmetrical. There isn't a single imbalance in his body besides that his biceps is a little small for his size. But this small imbalance is not enough to make him lose to Shawn when you conside that Dorian carried 55 lbs of muscle more than him.

[Hulkster]

  You see, this is what you just don't get. Size is very important in bodybuilding. After all, it's called bodybuilding. The Mr.Olympia is about size first. You can't be Mr.Olympia at 205 lbs if there are guys with 50 lbs of muscle more than you, unless all of them have severe muscle imbalances. Now, Yates is not aestehtics, but he is very symmetrical. There isn't a single imbalance in his body besides that his biceps is a little small for his size. But this small imbalance is not enough to make him lose to Shawn when you conside that Dorian carried 55 lbs of muscle more than him.

I guess you missed his biceps tear in 1994...

[Hulkster]

and by the way, bodybuilding at the Mr. Olympia level is NOT only concerned with size:

quality counts too:

[CigaretteMan]

I guess you missed his biceps tear in 1994...

  Biceps tear or not, it's still not enough to compensate for Dorian's 55 lbs of muscle advantage. It's not like he tore his lat or any big muscle, but the biceps which is a small muscle, and his biceps were never big anyway, so it;s not like it made much of a difference.

[CigaretteMan]

and by the way, bodybuilding at the Mr. Olympia level is NOT only concerned with size:

quality counts too:

  I never said quality doesen't count. I said size and balance are equally important, but between a two guys, one with great balance and little size and one with great size and good balance, the latter wins.
Mr.Olympia is the guy with the biggest muscles who has the least imbalances. And define quality? Dorian was not aesthetic but he had incredible quality. His definition and hardness were superb at his best.

[Hulkster]

  I never said quality doesen't count. I said size and balance are equally important, but between a two guys, one with great balance and little size and one with great size and good balance, the latter wins.
Mr.Olympia is the guy with the biggest muscles who has the least imbalances. And define quality? Dorian was not aesthetic but he had incredible quality. His definition and hardness were superb at his best.

but 1994 was not his best.

look at him compared to shawn: Musclemag said it best in their review of the 94 contest:

"the mr. olympia should be as perfect as possible. and given such ground rules, it would be mighty hard to deny Shawn Ray"

[England_1]

damn, Shawn is getting owned here and Kevin hasn't even completed the pose yet. LOL.

Sorry, but Shawn is just too small to be impressive. It's so evident on the 1995 google prejudging video where Ray was called out first and was replaced by a much more impressive Nasser. You just didn't even notice Shawn standing next to Dorian.

[JohnnyVegas]

damn, Shawn is getting owned here and Kevin hasn't even completed the pose yet. LOL.

Sorry, but Shawn is just too small to be impressive. It's so evident on the 1995 google prejudging video where Ray was called out first and was replaced by a much more impressive Nasser. You just didn't even notice Shawn standing next to Dorian.

You are a very smart person, and observant.


Sean, at 5'2, is no match for The Shadow.

[Danimal77]

yup.

and this left arm is one hell of a severe imbalance:

With exception to the half bicep, he is looking fucking STELLAR in that pic. SICK conditioning and muscle mass.

Anyways, Gutler's right bicep is just as bad as Dorian's and NO ONE is bitching about it.

[Danimal77]

  You see, this is what you just don't get. Size is very important in bodybuilding. After all, it's called bodybuilding. The Mr.Olympia is about size first. You can't be Mr.Olympia at 205 lbs if there are guys with 50 lbs of muscle more than you, unless all of them have severe muscle imbalances. Now, Yates is not aestehtics, but he is very symmetrical. There isn't a single imbalance in his body besides that his biceps is a little small for his size. But this small imbalance is not enough to make him lose to Shawn when you conside that Dorian carried 55 lbs of muscle more than him.

You see, this is VERY flawed. Dexter Jackson beat Markus Rhul half a dozen times at Iron Men and various other shows in and around 2000 and they both were pretty much flawless back then, YET, the victory (with exception to ONCE), went to the little man, who was AS small as Shawn Ray was and guess what? Rhul outweighed him by 75 pounds and had at least 4" on him.

Anyways, Dorian with exception to his bicep in 1994 was still light years ahead of all others. Same goes for 1995. 1996/1997 were more complicated to judge.

[CigaretteMan]

You see, this is VERY flawed. Dexter Jackson beat Markus Rhul half a dozen times at Iron Men and various other shows in and around 2000

  I said that Mr.Olympia is the guy with the biggest muscles with the least flaws. I never said a thing about the Ironman or other lesser shows. Judges at the Arnold, Ironman and other lesser shows favor balance and lines, but the Mr.Olympia judges are notorious for favoring muscular development, and so Mr.Olympia has always been the mass monster with the least flaws. Lee Haney(250 lbs), Dorian(265 lbs) and Ronnie(250+ lbs) were all mass monsters. Even in the 1960s and 1970s, the Olympia judges already favored size, evident by the fact that the two biggest guys from the era, arnold(237 lbs) and Sergio(240 lbs) were both Mr.Olympia. Sure, there are exceptions like Frank Zane, but in general the Mr.Olympia will the big guy with the least flaws.

[CigaretteMan]

but 1994 was not his best.

look at him compared to shawn: Musclemag said it best in their review of the 94 contest:

"the mr. olympia should be as perfect as possible. and given such ground rules, it would be mighty hard to deny Shawn Ray"

  Dorian was not at his best, but his conditioning was still as good as Ray's, with the added bonus of 55 lbs of mass. Considering the enormous size advantage, Dorian would need to have come with a torn lat(major imbalance) or completely off conditoning for Shawn to beat him.

[Matt C]

Dorian looking healthy.