Author Topic: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May  (Read 5691 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2008, 12:32:41 PM »
It all comes down to this:


Are we better off now than 8 years ago?   The answer is obvious.



Yes, the answer is obvious for me and a lot of others.  Including my best friend's son.  Ten years ago he was just finishing high school and impregnated his girlfriend.  They got married and had a baby.  Since then, his wife has graduated from college, pushed out another baby, and just got accepted into law school here (one of the toughest schools in the country to get into).  He graduated from college, joined the Army, served a tour in Korea, and served a tour in Iraq, where he was pinned a captain by his dad in Iraq.  They bought an apartment, the market took off, they sold the apartment for a significant profit, and bought a new house.  They then entered the lottery for new homes in another new neighborhood, won, and bought a second house.  They rent out the first.  They were able to do this in part because he had a lot of tax free income while serving in Iraq and got a big signing bonus to re-up.  (Headhunter if you're reading this I want you to meet him when you come to Hawaii.) 

That's just one example of people who are much better off today than ten years.  I know lots of others. 

OzmO

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2008, 12:35:56 PM »
Yes, the answer is obvious for me and a lot of others.  Including my best friend's son.  Ten years ago he was just finishing high school and impregnated his girlfriend.  They got married and had a baby.  Since then, his wife has graduated from college, pushed out another baby, and just got accepted into law school here (one of the toughest schools in the country to get into).  He graduated from college, joined the Army, served a tour in Korea, and served a tour in Iraq, where he was pinned a captain by his dad in Iraq.  They bought an apartment, the market took off, they sold the apartment for a significant profit, and bought a new house.  They then entered the lottery for new homes in another new neighborhood, won, and bought a second house.  They rent out the first.  They were able to do this in part because he had a lot of tax free income while serving in Iraq and got a big signing bonus to re-up.  (Headhunter if you're reading this I want you to meet him when you come to Hawaii.) 

That's just one example of people who are much better off today than ten years.  I know lots of others. 


90% of that is personal growth.

We weren't taxed to death in the 90's. 

And that's just one person, there are always winners and losers in every time period, but the fact is overall things are worse.

Dos Equis

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #52 on: June 09, 2008, 12:42:18 PM »
90% of that is personal growth.

We weren't taxed to death in the 90's. 

And that's just one person, there are always winners and losers in every time period, but the fact is overall things are worse.

That's not true.  A large percentage of that is related to his untaxed military income and his military bonus that allowed them to buy two houses, along with our surging housing market the past ten years. 

I've acknowledged it's only one person.  Anecdotes don't prove trends.  But I know lots of people like them.  I think it's accurate to say some people are worse off, and some are better off. 

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #53 on: June 09, 2008, 12:45:20 PM »
That's not true.  A large percentage of that is related to his untaxed military income and his military bonus that allowed them to buy two houses, along with our surging housing market the past ten years. 

I've acknowledged it's only one person.  Anecdotes don't prove trends.  But I know lots of people like them.  I think it's accurate to say some people are worse off, and some are better off. 

Yeah, but as a whole, we are worse off.  no doubt.  Unless of course you don't pay $4.50 at the pump, your house didn't decrease in value by 30-50%, and your country isn't 4 trillion in debt.

Other than that there are people who got money to buy a house and every thing is peachy.   :)

Dos Equis

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #54 on: June 09, 2008, 12:49:53 PM »
Yeah, but as a whole, we are worse off.  no doubt.  Unless of course you don't pay $4.50 at the pump, your house didn't decrease in value by 30-50%, and your country isn't 4 trillion in debt.

Other than that there are people who got money to buy a house and every thing is peachy.   :)

I do pay a lot for gas.   >:(  My property skyrocketed in value, but corrected itself a bit.  My country is always in debt.  Probably always will be. 

It is indeed peachy for all the people who were able to buy and keep their homes, like my brother from another mother.   :) 

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #55 on: June 09, 2008, 12:54:14 PM »
I do pay a lot for gas.   >:(  My property skyrocketed in value, but corrected itself a bit.  My country is always in debt.  Probably always will be. 

It is indeed peachy for all the people who were able to buy and keep their homes, like my brother from another mother.   :) 

I kept my home.  np. 

And are we in more debt 8 years ago then now?   Is our new debt a significant amount?

How about the dollar?

Is the rise in the cost of gas significant?

Nice try in spinning reality.  But silly none the less.

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #56 on: June 09, 2008, 12:55:52 PM »
I kept my home.  np.   (I bought it in 1998)

And are we in more debt 8 years ago then now?   Is our new debt a significant amount?

How about the dollar?

Is the rise in the cost of gas significant?

Nice try in spinning reality.  But silly none the less.

Dos Equis

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #57 on: June 09, 2008, 01:05:42 PM »
I kept my home.  np. 

And are we in more debt 8 years ago then now?   Is our new debt a significant amount?

How about the dollar?

Is the rise in the cost of gas significant?

Nice try in spinning reality.  But silly none the less.

 Yes we are in more debt than 8 years ago. 

Dollar is terrible. 

Rise in gas prices is terrible. 

Do more people own homes today than 8 years ago? 

Has the value of their homes gone up today from 8 years ago?

Do people have more educational opportunities than 8 years ago?

Has income increased the past 8 years?

Do women and minorities have more opportunities today than 8 years ago?  Heck, we have a Halfrican American who is on the verge of being elected president. 

Have our products and services improved the past 8 years?

Has technology improved the past 8 years?  (See Mars landing as one example.) 

Is our military better trained today than 8 years ago? 

Have we made significant advances in science and medicine the past 8 years? 

Is 95 percent of the workforce employed?

Are there more jobs available today than 8 years ago?

I know the answers to most of these.  :)

War-Horse

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #58 on: June 09, 2008, 01:15:32 PM »
Ozmo, Hugo and everyone can see reality. Bbum wants to live in la la land looking like a stupid ass.

My post flew right over your head.  Let me try again.   Homes are 3-500% more
                                                                             Cars  are 2-300% more
                                                                           Food is 3-400% more
                                                                           Utility bills are 2-300% more

So if we average 300% for basic living......my 50k a year would have to be 150k to equal my standards of before.    Is your wage 3 times higher than 10 yrs ago??  If not then your quality of life and worth is less.

Of course anyone can see that this wouldnt apply to college or military grads who are starting out in life.....for gawds sake... ::)    this is for an established american in the workforce already at full value to his employer.  300% from that point, understand??


P.S.   My actual wage is plenty for my life but it cannot be argued that the cost of living is horrendous compared to 10 yrs ago and wages are not even close.

Dos Equis

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2008, 01:24:19 PM »
Ozmo, Hugo and everyone can see reality. Bbum wants to live in la la land looking like a stupid ass.

My post flew right over your head.  Let me try again.   Homes are 3-500% more
                                                                             Cars  are 2-300% more
                                                                           Food is 3-400% more
                                                                           Utility bills are 2-300% more

So if we average 300% for basic living......my 50k a year would have to be 150k to equal my standards of before.    Is your wage 3 times higher than 10 yrs ago??  If not then your quality of life and worth is less.

Of course anyone can see that this wouldnt apply to college or military grads who are starting out in life.....for gawds sake... ::)    this is for an established american in the workforce already at full value to his employer.  300% from that point, understand??


P.S.   My actual wage is plenty for my life but it cannot be argued that the cost of living is horrendous compared to 10 yrs ago and wages are not even close.

LOL. . . . You earn the same income you earned 14 years ago, your expenses exceed your income, you bought a $40k depreciating "asset" with a $50K annual income, and you have a mortgage that consumes nearly of all of your net income. 

Of course you're not doing well.  Sell your house, sell your car, get a bicycle, and be smarter with your money.  Don't blame the government for your mistakes.  ::)

War-Horse

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2008, 01:52:06 PM »
LOL. . . . You earn the same income you earned 14 years ago, your expenses exceed your income, you bought a $40k depreciating "asset" with a $50K annual income, and you have a mortgage that consumes nearly of all of your net income. 

Of course you're not doing well.  Sell your house, sell your car, get a bicycle, and be smarter with your money.  Don't blame the government for your mistakes.  ::)



Hahahaha.   You live in the twilight zone dont you.   

OzmO

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #61 on: June 09, 2008, 01:54:54 PM »
Yes we are in more debt than 8 years ago. 

Dollar is terrible. 

Rise in gas prices is terrible. 

Do more people own homes today than 8 years ago? 

Has the value of their homes gone up today from 8 years ago?

Are over 2 million of them in serious danger of losing their homes?

Are many many more owing more than the home is worth?

Silly assertion BB, especially when you look at the facts.

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Do people have more educational opportunities than 8 years ago?

Do they?

Because of the home value crisis and the increase cost of goods becuase of gas and including the cost of gas can people still afford education  the same way when prices were cheaper?

Another silly assertion, BB.

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Has income increased the past 8 years?

Has it increased enough to cover the squeeze $4.50 a gallon that's being put on the middle class? 

another silly assertion, BB

And who's income are you talking about?  Yours?  Careful not to live in a bubble BB.

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Do women and minorities have more opportunities today than 8 years ago?  Heck, we have a Halfrican American who is on the verge of being elected president.

Are you confusing the fact an half black half white person just won the dem nomination with the increased or decreased or maintained opportunities of women and minorities?

another silly assertion, BB

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Have our products and services improved the past 8 years?

Have they ?   Health insurance stinks.  I just went through hoop after hoop getting my daughter health care.  Compared to 8 years ago it's night and day.

another silly assertion, BB

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Has technology improved the past 8 years?  (See Mars landing as one example.) 

And the mars landing has something to do with the quality of our life now versus 8 years ago? 

Sorry,  i have too now:   ::)

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Is our military better trained today than 8 years ago? 

YES  we agree!  However it is at the cost of 4000 US lives, 20,000 wounded, 50,000 - 100,000 dead Iraqis and 4 trillion in debt.

But are better trained.  Tell that to a war widow.

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Is 95 percent of the workforce employed?

no.

94.5% are.  but like you suggested, .5% of these people are insignificant.

Tell that to the families who will go without beucase of BUSH outsourcing and sh1tty economic policies.


and yes we advanced in medicine.  If that could get inflation down then it an even better thing, but since it won't it a moot point becuase that kind of advancement is a given.

Dos Equis

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #62 on: June 09, 2008, 02:30:12 PM »
Are over 2 million of them in serious danger of losing their homes?

Are many many more owing more than the home is worth?

Silly assertion BB, especially when you look at the facts.

Do they?

Because of the home value crisis and the increase cost of goods becuase of gas and including the cost of gas can people still afford education  the same way when prices were cheaper?

Another silly assertion, BB.

Has it increased enough to cover the squeeze $4.50 a gallon that's being put on the middle class? 

another silly assertion, BB

And who's income are you talking about?  Yours?  Careful not to live in a bubble BB.

Are you confusing the fact an half black half white person just won the dem nomination with the increased or decreased or maintained opportunities of women and minorities?

another silly assertion, BB

Have they ?   Health insurance stinks.  I just went through hoop after hoop getting my daughter health care.  Compared to 8 years ago it's night and day.

another silly assertion, BB

And the mars landing has something to do with the quality of our life now versus 8 years ago? 

Sorry,  i have too now:   ::)

YES  we agree!  However it is at the cost of 4000 US lives, 20,000 wounded, 50,000 - 100,000 dead Iraqis and 4 trillion in debt.

But are better trained.  Tell that to a war widow.

no.

94.5% are.  but like you suggested, .5% of these people are insignificant.

Tell that to the families who will go without beucase of BUSH outsourcing and sh1tty economic policies.


and yes we advanced in medicine.  If that could get inflation down then it an even better thing, but since it won't it a moot point becuase that kind of advancement is a given.

Oh brother.  You are so caught up in this Bush hatred that you can't even acknowledge any of the good things that have happened in this country the past 8 or 10 years.

We all know there is a foreclosure crisis.  But I'd be willing to wager the number of new homeowners, less those in foreclosure, has significantly increased the past 8 to 10 years.  You obviously disagree.  I think that disagreement is based on blind Bush hatred. 

I would be willing to wager that the value of the homes in most major markets that people purchased and/or owned 8 or 10 years ago, and have maintained, has increased in value.  You obviously disagree.  I think that disagreement is based on blind Bush hatred. 

I wouldn't wager on this, but I believe we likely have more college and trade school graduates today than we did 8 or 10 years ago. 

I was not talking about my income, but my income and assets do increase every year, just like a lot of people.

If you can't see Obama's nomination, with Hillary a close second, as evidence of how much we have progressed in this country, then that again is blind Bush hatred.  There are also probably more minority owned business, more minorities who have risen up the ranks, more women who have broken through the glass ceiling than 8 or 10 years ago.

Health insurance does not stink for everyone, but that's only one service.  Goods and services are always improving.  If you can't acknowledge that fact then you are blinded by Bush hatred. 

Yes, I clearly said our lives are better because of the Mars landing.  Nice try Ozmo.  I said "Has technology improved the past 8 years?  (See Mars landing as one example.)"  If you don't believe technology has improved and that this doesn't improve our lives then you are blinded by Bush hatred. 

Where exactly did I say ".5% of these people are insignificant"?  Quote me.  I said there are two ways to look at unemployment:  one is to say it increased by 1 percent; another is to say 95 percent of the workforce is employed.  I haven’t checked, but I wonder if the total number of jobs created has increased the past 8 to 10 years?   

In any event, if someone wants to have a doom and gloom attitude about the state of the country to justify Bush hatred, then there really isn't anything you can say to dissuade them.  I for one admit we have problems, but I also recognize lots of great things in the country.   


War-Horse

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #63 on: June 09, 2008, 02:44:05 PM »
Why wouldnt we hate bush.   I cant think of anyreason to like him.   Destroyed america for personal and corporate gain.  History will come down hard on him, and he deserves it all.

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #64 on: June 09, 2008, 02:51:56 PM »
Oh brother.  You are so caught up in this Bush hatred that you can't even acknowledge any of the good things that have happened in this country the past 8 or 10 years.

We all know there is a foreclosure crisis.  But I'd be willing to wager the number of new homeowners, less those in foreclosure, has significantly increased the past 8 to 10 years.  You obviously disagree.  I think that disagreement is based on blind Bush hatred. 

I would be willing to wager that the value of the homes in most major markets that people purchased and/or owned 8 or 10 years ago, and have maintained, has increased in value.  You obviously disagree.  I think that disagreement is based on blind Bush hatred. 

So becuase I'm pointing out the obvious it gets labeled as "BUSH hatred"? 

Simple fact:   There are more people filling BK's, more people in foreclosers and MORE people whose homes are worth less than they owe.

So to say homeowner rates are higher is true until you qualify that statement with reality.   Reality is a place we all have to live.   :)

 
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I wouldn't wager on this, but I believe we likely have more college and trade school graduates today than we did 8 or 10 years ago.

So then you don't know. 

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I was not talking about my income, but my income and assets do increase every year, just like a lot of people.

Incomes nearly always increase.  That's a given.  It's the value of things versus the income that determines if they really do increase.  Being that inflation in things like gas, rents, and household goods have increased significantly, the increased income is negated.  Like i said earlier, if i was making the same relative income as i do now, back eight years ago, I'd be better off, because i don't have to pay an outrageous price for gas and household goods that results from high gas prices.

to simply state  "Income has increased" is very uninformed.


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If you can't see Obama's nomination, with Hillary a close second, as evidence of how much we have progressed in this country, then that again is blind Bush hatred.  There are also probably more minority owned business, more minorities who have risen up the ranks, more women who have broken through the glass ceiling than 8 or 10 years ago.

I'll give you that, in the minorities and women area. (I'll consult my feminist friend who might disagree and show where you might be living in fantasy land again)  And hillary and Obama are not a result of that.  they are a result of BUSH. 

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Health insurance does not stink for everyone, but that's only one service.  Goods and services are always improving.  If you can't acknowledge that fact then you are blinded by Bush hatred.

Health insurance is the issue, becuase goods and services mean nothing if you are sick and in poor health with out good care.

Again, goods and services are improving but becuase of out sourcing, inflaiton, high gas prices etc...   People cannot take advantage like they used to 8 years ago.

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Yes, I clearly said our lives are better because of the Mars landing.  Nice try Ozmo.  I said "Has technology improved the past 8 years?  (See Mars landing as one example.)"  If you don't believe technology has improved and that this doesn't improve our lives then you are blinded by Bush hatred.

No, your example was ridiculous.  that's what i was commenting on.  Again technology increases are a given.  but if you can;t advantage of those increases becuase yor house payment is killing you and you spend most of your extra money filling you tank, what difference does it make?

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Where exactly did I say ".5% of these people are insignificant"?  Quote me.  I said there are two ways to look at unemployment:  one is to say it increased by 1 percent; another is to say 95 percent of the workforce is employed.  I haven’t checked, but I wonder if the total number of jobs created has increased the past 8 to 10 years?

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Regarding unemployment, one way to look at it is the national unemployment rate rose about 1 percent.  Another is to say 95 percent of the workforce is employed.  Hardly the apocalypse.

yes, you didn't say insignificant.   You said hardly the Apocalypse's.    Same difference.  IMO.

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In any event, if someone wants to have a doom and gloom attitude about the state of the country to justify Bush hatred, then there really isn't anything you can say to dissuade them.  I for one admit we have problems, but I also recognize lots of great things in the country.   
It's doom and gloom, It's reality.  We were better off, overall eight years ago.

Dos Equis

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #65 on: June 09, 2008, 04:47:47 PM »
So becuase I'm pointing out the obvious it gets labeled as "BUSH hatred"? 

Simple fact:   There are more people filling BK's, more people in foreclosers and MORE people whose homes are worth less than they owe.

So to say homeowner rates are higher is true until you qualify that statement with reality.   Reality is a place we all have to live.   :)

 
So then you don't know. 

Incomes nearly always increase.  That's a given.  It's the value of things versus the income that determines if they really do increase.  Being that inflation in things like gas, rents, and household goods have increased significantly, the increased income is negated.  Like i said earlier, if i was making the same relative income as i do now, back eight years ago, I'd be better off, because i don't have to pay an outrageous price for gas and household goods that results from high gas prices.

to simply state  "Income has increased" is very uninformed.


I'll give you that, in the minorities and women area. (I'll consult my feminist friend who might disagree and show where you might be living in fantasy land again)  And hillary and Obama are not a result of that.  they are a result of BUSH. 

Health insurance is the issue, becuase goods and services mean nothing if you are sick and in poor health with out good care.

Again, goods and services are improving but becuase of out sourcing, inflaiton, high gas prices etc...   People cannot take advantage like they used to 8 years ago.

No, your example was ridiculous.  that's what i was commenting on.  Again technology increases are a given.  but if you can;t advantage of those increases becuase yor house payment is killing you and you spend most of your extra money filling you tank, what difference does it make?

yes, you didn't say insignificant.   You said hardly the Apocalypse's.    Same difference.  IMO.

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In any event, if someone wants to have a doom and gloom attitude about the state of the country to justify Bush hatred, then there really isn't anything you can say to dissuade them.  I for one admit we have problems, but I also recognize lots of great things in the country.   
It's doom and gloom, It's reality.  We were better off, overall eight years ago.

I see.  So any success, progress, advances, improvements, etc. we've seen the past 8 or 10 years are a "given" 

You're not pointing out simple facts.  You're making a blanket statement (we are worse off today than 8 or 10 years ago) and dismissing obvious signs of progress. 

I'm not saying everything is just fine.  I've said a number of times I'm very concerned about things like the war, gas prices, and the foreclosure crisis.  I simply disagree with your blanket statement and your attempt to downplay all of our country's success. 

What is actually uninformed is to say increased home ownership overall must be discounted because foreclosures have increased.  Anytime someone loses a home it is unfortunate, but if at the end of the day there are millions of new home owners, I don't know how you can't consider that a good thing.  Unless you simply want to ignore it. 

Of course we have to factor in inflation, the cost of doing business, etc., but all you've done is made an assumption that everyone whose income increased has been eaten up by those things.

Yes, go talk to your feminist friend and rely on her word to make a broad brush statement about the whole country.  It's not like you didn't discount my little personal stories.   :)

Your attempt to completely discount technological advancements is silly.  I can't believe you would say that no one can take advantage of them because of an ARM or increased gas prices.  Talk about an overstatement. 

No, I did not say the loss of any job is insignificant.  I don't care what kind of spin you want to put on my comments, but you should at least qualify statements that you attribute to me.  I'd say it's significant that most of the workforce is employed and that probably many new jobs have been and continue to be created.  (You probably consider that a "given.")

It is not doom and gloom for everyone.  That's just factually inaccurate.  There is no denying that we are having problems.  I was on Maui last week and Kauai the week before and I did notice a significant drop off in airport traffic.  One of the guys on Maui told me  people are getting laid off and it's all related to fuel prices.  So yes, for a lot of people, things are pretty bad right now. 

But for a lot of people, things are very good too.  To deny this is to ignore reality.         

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #66 on: June 09, 2008, 04:54:34 PM »
If you were to talk to any random person in the usa and ask them if they were better off 10 yrs ago....mostly all would agree that they were.    People feel less secure for alot of reasons.  I dont think BBum is a real person.....has to be a gimmick.

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #67 on: June 09, 2008, 05:07:26 PM »
5.0 to 5.5% = 618,000 jobs lost in May.



NT

Dos Equis

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #68 on: June 09, 2008, 05:16:32 PM »
5.0 to 5.5% = 618,000 jobs lost in May.



NT

That's a huge number (if accurate).  Some of that is related several airlines and stores shutting down the past few months. 

How many new jobs were created during the same period? 

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #69 on: June 09, 2008, 06:00:02 PM »
I see.  So any success, progress, advances, improvements, etc. we've seen the past 8 or 10 years are a "given" 

You're not pointing out simple facts.  You're making a blanket statement (we are worse off today than 8 or 10 years ago) and dismissing obvious signs of progress. 


You don't get it.

If these are the worse of times there are still examples of progress.  I'm not dismissing, I'm telling you that the obvious issues such as gas, unemployment, home values, inflation, world standing, etc...   Define the situation we are in now as worse than 8-10 years ago.   

the things you bring up are the given.  Such as technological progress, increasing income etc...

Your arguments  could apply in ww2.

That's why they are not consequential.

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What is actually uninformed is to say increased home ownership overall must be discounted because foreclosures have increased.  Anytime someone loses a home it is unfortunate, but if at the end of the day there are millions of new home owners, I don't know how you can't consider that a good thing.  Unless you simply want to ignore it. 

I've address it every step of the way.  what you fail to address the reality behind the numbers.  It's as if you are hiding your head in the sand.

People's homes, most of the people who were able to buy homes that you are counting as "homeowners"  Owe more then they are worth.  That's BAD.  And many, 2 million plus many, are in forecloser with no way out.  That wasn't the case 8-10 years ago.  Get it now?

SO on the surface, it looks peachy, but take one bite and it's rotten.

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Of course we have to factor in inflation, the cost of doing business, etc., but all you've done is made an assumption that everyone whose income increased has been eaten up by those things.

No of course not.  But the fact remains the money doesn't hold the same value when inflation is factored with gas driving inflation.
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Yes, go talk to your feminist friend and rely on her word to make a broad brush statement about the whole country.  It's not like you didn't discount my little personal stories.   

No, i'd accept only facts (studies, stats etc.) not opinion or someone's cherry assessment of things based on personal stories.  Personally, i'm 10 times better off than i was 8-10 years ago.  But this country as a whole isn't.  and that's what this is about.

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Your attempt to completely discount technological advancements is silly.  I can't believe you would say that no one can take advantage of them because of an ARM or increased gas prices.  Talk about an overstatement. 

I'm willing to bet flat screen sales are down.  Guess what?  My Brother is a manger at Sharper Image.  Guess what they just did?
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No, I did not say the loss of any job is insignificant.  I don't care what kind of spin you want to put on my comments, but you should at least qualify statements that you attribute to me.  I'd say it's significant that most of the workforce is employed and that probably many new jobs have been and continue to be created.  (You probably consider that a "given.")

You said 600K+ people losing their jobs isn't apocalyptic.   the statement speaks for it's self.

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It is not doom and gloom for everyone.  That's just factually inaccurate.  There is no denying that we are having problems.  I was on Maui last week and Kauai the week before and I did notice a significant drop off in airport traffic.  One of the guys on Maui told me  people are getting laid off and it's all related to fuel prices.  So yes, for a lot of people, things are pretty bad right now. 

But for a lot of people, things are very good too.  To deny this is to ignore reality. 

did i ever say it was?  If i did, i miss-typed.   :)  But the fact remains things are worse then they were 8 years ago......OVERALL  ;)

PS:  i know i did acknowledge there are always winners and losers.  Perhaps you missed that.



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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #70 on: June 09, 2008, 06:16:45 PM »
That's a huge number (if accurate).  Some of that is related several airlines and stores shutting down the past few months. 

How many new jobs were created during the same period?  


Health care (34,000), bars and restaurants (11,000), and government added 17,000 jobs.


NT

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #71 on: June 09, 2008, 06:34:21 PM »
You don't get it.

If these are the worse of times there are still examples of progress.  I'm not dismissing, I'm telling you that the obvious issues such as gas, unemployment, home values, inflation, world standing, etc...   Define the situation we are in now as worse than 8-10 years ago.   

the things you bring up are the given.  Such as technological progress, increasing income etc...

Your arguments  could apply in ww2.

That's why they are not consequential.

I've address it every step of the way.  what you fail to address the reality behind the numbers.  It's as if you are hiding your head in the sand.

People's homes, most of the people who were able to buy homes that you are counting as "homeowners"  Owe more then they are worth.  That's BAD.  And many, 2 million plus many, are in forecloser with no way out.  That wasn't the case 8-10 years ago.  Get it now?

SO on the surface, it looks peachy, but take one bite and it's rotten.

No of course not.  But the fact remains the money doesn't hold the same value when inflation is factored with gas driving inflation.
No, i'd accept only facts (studies, stats etc.) not opinion or someone's cherry assessment of things based on personal stories.  Personally, i'm 10 times better off than i was 8-10 years ago.  But this country as a whole isn't.  and that's what this is about.

I'm willing to bet flat screen sales are down.  Guess what?  My Brother is a manger at Sharper Image.  Guess what they just did?
You said 600K+ people losing their jobs isn't apocalyptic.   the statement speaks for it's self.

did i ever say it was?  If i did, i miss-typed.   :)  But the fact remains things are worse then they were 8 years ago......OVERALL  ;)

PS:  i know i did acknowledge there are always winners and losers.  Perhaps you missed that.




You don't get it.  

Times are worse for some people and better for some people.  To make the blanket statement that it's worse for everyone is an overstatement.  

Here is one example of your many overstatements:  "most of the people who were able to buy homes that you are counting as 'homeowners'  Owe more then they are worth."  I suspect there are probably close to ten million new home owners during the past 8 to 10 years.  If you are saying the majority of them are upside down, I say prove it.  I would be very surprised if that was the case.  Even if that were true, that's not all bad.  

For people who have lost their home, times are bad.  People who are upside down are fine, unless they want to sell or borrow.  Property values always go up over the long haul in many areas.  Except for my friend who owns a money pit in Oklahoma.   :)

The people whose home values have remained steady or increased, of which there are many, are fine.  So no, it's not accurate to say the country as a whole is worse off and point to homeowners as proof, when millions of them are better off today than 8 or 10 years ago.  

Things are peachy for some.  Okay for some.  Bad for some.  

Sharper Image shut down.  Comp USA in Hawaii recently shut down.  Aloha Airlines recently went under.  Molokai Ranch is done.  That's terrible.  On the other hand, Whole Foods just opened up a couple stores.  Walgreens is opening stores around Hawaii, right next to Longs.   :)  New businesses are starting all the time.  There are two sides to the coin.  I'm looking at both.  You're not.

But we're starting to repeat ourselves. . . .    

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #72 on: June 09, 2008, 06:35:12 PM »

Health care (34,000), bars and restaurants (11,000), and government added 17,000 jobs.


NT

That's it? 

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #73 on: June 09, 2008, 07:00:49 PM »
You don't get it.  

Times are worse for some people and better for some people.  To make the blanket statement that it's worse for everyone is an overstatement.  

Here is one example of your many overstatements:  "most of the people who were able to buy homes that you are counting as 'homeowners'  Owe more then they are worth."  I suspect there are probably close to ten million new home owners during the past 8 to 10 years.  If you are saying the majority of them are upside down, I say prove it.  I would be very surprised if that was the case.  Even if that were true, that's not all bad.  

For people who have lost their home, times are bad.  People who are upside down are fine, unless they want to sell or borrow.  Property values always go up over the long haul in many areas.  Except for my friend who owns a money pit in Oklahoma.   :)

The people whose home values have remained steady or increased, of which there are many, are fine.  So no, it's not accurate to say the country as a whole is worse off and point to homeowners as proof, when millions of them are better off today than 8 or 10 years ago.  

Things are peachy for some.  Okay for some.  Bad for some.  

Sharper Image shut down.  Comp USA in Hawaii recently shut down.  Aloha Airlines recently went under.  Molokai Ranch is done.  That's terrible.  On the other hand, Whole Foods just opened up a couple stores.  Walgreens is opening stores around Hawaii, right next to Longs.   :)  New businesses are starting all the time.  There are two sides to the coin.  I'm looking at both.  You're not.

But we're starting to repeat ourselves. . . .    


when have i ever said it was worse for everyone?

That's impossible.  Again, there will always be winners and losers, but OVERALL it's worse.
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Here is one example of your many overstatements:  "most of the people who were able to buy homes that you are counting as 'homeowners'  Owe more then they are worth."  I suspect there are probably close to ten million new home owners during the past 8 to 10 years.  If you are saying the majority of them are upside down, I say prove it.  I would be very surprised if that was the case.  Even if that were true, that's not all bad.

do you watch the news?

Do you see that housing prices have dumped?  Homes aren't worth what they were bought for 4 years ago.  Some cases 8-10 years ago.

Yes, 10 million isn't apocatlypic either right?

My friends home was worth 700k just 2 years ago.  they sold it for 330K 6 months ago.  It's happening all over.

Good thing is, if you could call it that, is that they bought the house when it was 120K

But the point remains, if property value was up then i'd have nothing to say.  But it isn't and 8-10 years it was up.  now it's not.  Therefore it's worse.

If you don't get that, not much more i can say.

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Sharper Image shut down.  Comp USA in Hawaii recently shut down.  Aloha Airlines recently went under.  Molokai Ranch is done.  That's terrible.  On the other hand, Whole Foods just opened up a couple stores.  Walgreens is opening stores around Hawaii, right next to Longs.     New businesses are starting all the time.  There are two sides to the coin.  I'm looking at both.  You're not.

You are comparing food and drug stores to consumer electronic stores/Airlines?  Do you know the difference and what it means when one shuts down and the another opens?

One shutting down is indicative of harder times because aren't spending extra money, while another opening up is indicative of greater demand for food.

Monster over comparison i guess.

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Re: Unemployment rate jumps to 5.5 percent in May
« Reply #74 on: June 09, 2008, 07:38:40 PM »
when have i ever said it was worse for everyone?

That's impossible.  Again, there will always be winners and losers, but OVERALL it's worse.
do you watch the news?

Do you see that housing prices have dumped?  Homes aren't worth what they were bought for 4 years ago.  Some cases 8-10 years ago.

Yes, 10 million isn't apocatlypic either right?

My friends home was worth 700k just 2 years ago.  they sold it for 330K 6 months ago.  It's happening all over.

Good thing is, if you could call it that, is that they bought the house when it was 120K

But the point remains, if property value was up then i'd have nothing to say.  But it isn't and 8-10 years it was up.  now it's not.  Therefore it's worse.

If you don't get that, not much more i can say.

You are comparing food and drug stores to consumer electronic stores/Airlines?  Do you know the difference and what it means when one shuts down and the another opens?

One shutting down is indicative of harder times because aren't spending extra money, while another opening up is indicative of greater demand for food.

Monster over comparison i guess.


I do better than watch the news.  I talk to people on the ground.  I was in Atlanta recently and talked to some people there about the foreclosure crisis.  People in the industry said it's the worst they have ever seen.  I’ve talked to people in various parts of the country and they say the same thing.  That part of the economy/country (those going through foreclosure) is bad. 

The millions who are not are okay.  But you believe the majority of them are upside down.  Again I say prove it. 

So your friend bought house, sold it, and made $210,000 on the sale and you’re citing that as a bad thing?  Okaaay.  Sounds like the $700k property value was inflated to begin with.  We've seen the same thing happen here.  Inflated property values all over the place.  I could care less about them, because I'm not selling anytime soon.  That is true for millions of homeowners. 

Are you kidding?  Businesses shut down for a variety of reasons.  You obviously don't know the details of the closures I referenced.  Aloha Airlines was driven out of business largely because of the entry of Mesa and Pacific Wings airlines.  They came in and dropped inter-island fares to $18.  That's down from a high over $100.  One way.  Aloha and Hawaiian immediately dropped their fares.  Aloha couldn't keep up and filed bankruptcy, before the gas prices skyrocketed.  They came out of bankruptcy and couldn't survive. 

I'm not sure why Comp USA couldn't make it.  Molokai Ranch shutting down had nothing to do with the recent gas prices. 

Walgreens is not a food store.  They're as much a goods store as Comp USA.  There was no demand for Walgreens.  They simply saw an opportunity and are coming in to compete.  Great for consumers.  I like the moxie of opening right next to Longs too.  Point being there are new businesses opening and closing all the time.  (But you only want to talk about those that shut down to prove a point.)