Author Topic: Carb Cycling  (Read 5239 times)

ripitupbaby

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Carb Cycling
« on: June 16, 2008, 07:37:54 AM »
I'm generally a simpleton when it comes to dieting.  I don't really know much about carb cycling. 

What is carb cycling, and what is the purpose of it?  What's the benefit?  What kinds of carb cycles have you found to be successful?

:)

The ChemistV2

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Re: Carb Cycling
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2008, 09:35:06 AM »
I'm generally a simpleton when it comes to dieting.  I don't really know much about carb cycling. 

What is carb cycling, and what is the purpose of it?  What's the benefit?  What kinds of carb cycles have you found to be successful?


The point of it is, the body burns more fat in a low carb state, but after several days of it, the lack of glycogen in the muscle gets depleted where you look flat. Also hard to get a pump and the metabolic rate can slow somewhat. This happens more to a Natural than a steroid user. So some people after maybe 6 days of low carbs will throw in one to 2 days of high carbs to fill out the muscle and speed up the metabolism. The carbs shouldn't turn to fat if you're already depleted. I go sometimes 14 days on low  to medium carbs (75 to 100 grams)and then I do two high Carb days of 300 grams. Since my carbs aren't super low, I deplete slower than someone going under 50 grams. That's the basic idea, but everyone does it different. Some people only go 3 or 4 days on real low carbs and then eat high carbs for a few days. That doesn't work well for me. 
 
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ripitupbaby

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Re: Carb Cycling
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2008, 10:38:23 AM »
The point of it is, the body burns more fat in a low carb state, but after several days of it, the lack of glycogen in the muscle gets depleted where you look flat. Also hard to get a pump and the metabolic rate can slow somewhat. This happens more to a Natural than a steroid user. So some people after maybe 6 days of low carbs will throw in one to 2 days of high carbs to fill out the muscle and speed up the metabolism. The carbs shouldn't turn to fat if you're already depleted. I go sometimes 14 days on low  to medium carbs (75 to 100 grams)and then I do two high Carb days of 300 grams. Since my carbs aren't super low, I deplete slower than someone going under 50 grams. That's the basic idea, but everyone does it different. Some people only go 3 or 4 days on real low carbs and then eat high carbs for a few days. That doesn't work well for me. 
 
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I see... thanks for the info.  No need to report topic to moderator though! ;D

I don't function too well on little to no carbs, so I usually keep my carbs pretty constant and just adjust them according to where I need to go and how fast I need to get there.  When I started my diet this time around, I was at about maybe 150-160 g/day (total of all carbs, including veggies), but I wasn't happy with the pace of my weight loss.  People kept asking me if I was cycling my carbs as if that was going to help me lose weight more quickly, and I was like "why would I want to do that?" 

I'm still not cycling them per se, but now (possibly just under 11 weeks out) I am at about 100-110 g/day total with 1-2 days per week being more like 50 g.  I suppose that's kind of a cycle but in reverse.  :D

:)

The ChemistV2

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Re: Carb Cycling
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2008, 11:38:07 AM »

I see... thanks for the info.  No need to report topic to moderator though! ;D

I don't function too well on little to no carbs, so I usually keep my carbs pretty constant and just adjust them according to where I need to go and how fast I need to get there.  When I started my diet this time around, I was at about maybe 150-160 g/day (total of all carbs, including veggies), but I wasn't happy with the pace of my weight loss.  People kept asking me if I was cycling my carbs as if that was going to help me lose weight more quickly, and I was like "why would I want to do that?" 

I'm still not cycling them per se, but now (possibly just under 11 weeks out) I am at about 100-110 g/day total with 1-2 days per week being more like 50 g.  I suppose that's kind of a cycle but in reverse.  :D


That sounds like a good plan. I might try that sometime...2 days a week really low. But I'll still probably do a little carb load on day 14 or so.

bthomas77

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Re: Carb Cycling
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2008, 04:04:52 PM »
i dont know what my carb count or anything was.  but i hit a point where i was not losing weight as fast.  and my nutritionist switched me to a three low, one high rotation.  i started losing at a much greater rate. 

dont know how it works, the previous comment seems to explain it all better.....

but i went three low, one high, and it worked well for me.

flexingtonsteele

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Re: Carb Cycling
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2008, 04:39:57 PM »


heres a good article that explains carb cycling http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-180-diet

siouxcountry

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Re: Carb Cycling
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2008, 09:23:31 PM »
No need to report topic to moderator though! ;D

Reported.

Arnold jr

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Re: Carb Cycling
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2008, 09:38:35 PM »
The point of it is, the body burns more fat in a low carb state, but after several days of it, the lack of glycogen in the muscle gets depleted where you look flat. Also hard to get a pump and the metabolic rate can slow somewhat. This happens more to a Natural than a steroid user. So some people after maybe 6 days of low carbs will throw in one to 2 days of high carbs to fill out the muscle and speed up the metabolism. The carbs shouldn't turn to fat if you're already depleted. I go sometimes 14 days on low  to medium carbs (75 to 100 grams)and then I do two high Carb days of 300 grams. Since my carbs aren't super low, I deplete slower than someone going under 50 grams. That's the basic idea, but everyone does it different. Some people only go 3 or 4 days on real low carbs and then eat high carbs for a few days. That doesn't work well for me. 
 
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This is just not true. Carbs are carbs, regardless if you're natural or not. Nutrients are still nutrients, regardless if you're natural or not. Being a AAS user does not cause you to store excess glycogen, or cause your glycogen stores to deplete at a slower rate.

As for being depleted of glycogen, AAS user or not, it shouldn't take more then 3-4 days for the average person to completely deplete. If you're eating 75-100g of carbs every day, although that is low, even at the end of 14 days you will not be completely depleted. I'm not saying you should or should not be 100% depleted...just stating a fact.

Here is an example of a good carb cycling plan. This was used by a buddy of mine last November at nationals. Another good friend is following the same plan right now for an upcoming show of his this summer.

Bare in mind, the numbers are a lot higher then the way someone like Ripit would use...this guy is 275, but it gives you an idea of how to carb cycle correctly IMO.

Day 1: Carbs 150g, Fat 30g, Protein 275g
Day 2: Carbs 150g, Fat 30g, Protein 275g
Day 3: Carbs 250g, Fat 30g, Protein 225g
Day 4: Carbs 100g, Fat 40g, Protein 275g
Day 5: Carbs 600g, Fat 0g, Protein 200g
Day 6: Carbs 0g, Fat 100g, Protein 300g
Day 7: Carbs 0g, Fat 100g, Protein 300g

wes

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Re: Carb Cycling
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2008, 02:32:17 AM »
Lori,here`s an article I wrote a while back for Iron Man magazine:

Carb's... .........And Carb Cycling For Fat Loss
by Tim Wescott

When dieting for a bodybuilding contest, I use an arsenal of weapons to lose unsightly excess body fat. One of the dietary procedures I institute, is to cycle my carbs. Carbohydrates are used as energy by the body, they fuel our workouts, as well as providing ample fuel to be used throughout the course of the day. Ingesting carbs also replenishes our glucose and glycogen stores to prevent fatigue. Carb cycling allows you to still eat carbs from clean sources, without adding body fat, and cycling enables you to better utilize fat for burning as fuel, as opposed to burning carbs and muscle tissue for fuel.

Are Carbs The Evil Enemy ??

Carbs are not the evil villian the media makes them out to be. Improper carb timing can however, cause these carbs to be stored as fat. Carbs are not essential to the body, but they make dieting, and eating in general, a lot easier and more pleasurable... as long as the carbs are from the proper sources. Carbs get a bad rap in the news lately, due to people jumping on the proverbial bandwagon to make a buck off the latest trend in dieting.... low carbs! There are tons of low carb foods hitting the grocery stores daily, everything from bread, to potato chips, can now be found with a low carb label.
A few years back it was all about bashing fats....remember??

What will it be next year....protein? We'll just have to wait and see I guess, but they'll think of something.


Junk Carbs !!

Carbohydrates eaten in excess, or eaten at the wrong times, can help to add adipose tissue to the body, but they are not a bad thing if incorporated into a diet properly. Eat the majority of your carbs early in the day and at the post-workout meal, tapering off on them as the day goes on. Never eat carbs late at night, opt for protein instead. Sugar laden junk foods are always bad, and they are comprised mostly of carbs, and fat. In turn, they should have no place in a serious bodybuilders diet. If people eliminated, or cut down on junk food alone, they would lose a lot of weight, and look and feel much better for it. Quitting junk food however, is usually too much to ask for most people. Most junk food is simply calorie dense garbage, totally devoid of any nutrients.

When I devise a diet for a trainee ,the first step I implement is to have them cut back on junk gradually, until it is totally eliminated from the diet, except for the rare occasional treat. Once it's gone from the diet, it's usually not thought about again, except for the occasional craving. Eating junk food is a conditioned thing that can, and should be eliminated. In this article I will outline a plan that still allows you to eat healthy amounts of good carbs, and still lose fat in the process.

As I mentioned earlier, it's not carbs that are the villain, but rather the type of carbs eaten, and the specific times that they are ingested. If you are indulging in junk food on a daily basis, then you will most likely get fatter. Another problem is eating carbs too close to bedtime, when your activity and expenditure of energy is lessened. This is not a mystery, and all that's needed by the person looking to lose body fat is a lifestyle change !! Cut down on eating the crap, and you'll be well on your way to better health, increased energy, and a leaner body.


The Proper Attitude !!

When talking to bodybuilder's and other's, that want to lose fat, or increase muscular definition for competition purposes, I often find a trend in their thinking that they can still eat things in moderate portions that are usually considered taboo, while on most diets. Terms like "re-feed","cheat meal,"and "cheat day," almost always come up. These ideas can be used to your advantage, but in my opinion, you should wait until you are pretty close to achieving your desired body fat % goals before even thinking about them at all. Yes folks, I'm an "old school" type of guy who will tell you right off the bat, that you MUST make some sacrifices, and give up all negative eating habits to achieve these goals if you want to succeed in losing fat or winning a contest!!

I typically diet down for bodybuilding contests achieving approximately 3 - 5% body fat. Did I accomplish this while cheating and eating the occasional junk treat? My answer is a resounding NO. I suffered a bit here and there, but once I flip the switch in my mind to eat "clean" I do just that. There can be no half measures. You must get into the proper mindset and stay completely focused on achieving your goals, if you screw around and cheat once, you will repeat this cheating again and again. I know this from early attempts at getting cut-up, and from experiences learned from training my clients. Remain steadfast on your mission to getting lean, and you most definitely will.


Cycling Carbs !!

What we do when we cycle carbs in the manner that I advise, is to have three low carb days, followed by two higher carb days, to aid in recovery, and to replenish glycogen. This gives us just the right amount of carbs to be used as fuel without becoming an excessive amount. Always use carbs from clean foods not junk foods of course. The most important thing about carb cycling, in my opinion, is too never go too high throughout the diet, except for the latter stages, and only if necessary. We'll discuss this aspect of the diet later in this article!

What I recommend as a starting point, to determine just how many carbs you should eat on your highest day, is to eat 1 to 1.5 grams of carbs per pound of bodyweight. Start out using the latter number and adjust according to your results. I might add that it is vital to keep a nutrition journal when cycling carbs to be able to chart progress and make adjustments during the diet. This takes the guesswork out of dieting, and can also be looked back upon in the future to see how the body responded to certain tactics, and is an invaluable tool.

NOTE: Do not count fibrous vegetables into your total carb count for the day. They are low in calories and carbs and are a good source of fiber and do not count in the scheme of things while carb cycling. Only count starchy complex carbs.

Some tweaking will of course be necessary for most, as some of us are a bit more "carb sensitive" than others. Activity level, training intensity level, age, as well as sex, will determine how much you will need to adjust things, but as a rule I have found that 200 grams of carbs as your highest amount, is a good place to start. After a time you can decide whether you want to raise them a bit, or lower them, based on your results, and your body's feedback. It is a good practice to try this technique well in advance of your contest to sort of "learn" your body, and how it responds to this procedure.

Below is an example of my 5 day carb cycling method using 200 grams of carbs as the highest amount on a high day.


Day-1)150 grams

Day-2)100 grams

Day-3) 50 grams

Day-4)125 grams

Day-5)200 grams

Repeat cycle as written, throughout the course of the diet.

Essentially what I do is drop 50 grams of carbs over the course of the first 3 days, then increase by 75 grams, for the next two days. Some people prefer to raise fat intake on the lower carb days, or to increase fats on their off training days, to make up for the lost calories on the lower carb days. You can do this if you choose to, but I find it interferes with the fat burning process as fat is a calorie dense macronutrient that is needed by the body, but builds no muscle.

I also believe that without the fat increase you will burn more fat as fuel on the low carb days, especially when training hard, dieting and doing cardiovascular workouts. Besides as far as calories go, protein and carbs are not calorie dense and you must be in a calorie deficit to lose body fat for a lengthy period of time such as a 16 week contest prep diet or just a fat loss diet for the fitness enthusiast, no matter if he or she competes or not.


Reaching A Plateau !!

Eventually, you will more than likely reach a fat burning plateau, and this is the time where we can implement a "tweak" in the cycle plan. The body is resistant to change and it will eventually adapt to any stressors put upon it so after a time you may stop burning fat as fuel.

This is a good time to suddenly eat 3-4 good high carb days in a row ,or to simply eat a "cheat" meal or have a "cheat" day, just to trip up the metabolism, and get it jumpstarted so to speak, thus enabling the fat burning process to resume.

Another way you can also accomplish this is to go to zero carbs for 3 days and 3 days only. This will accomplish the same thing as the 3-4 high carb days or the "cheats". This is the only time to take fibrous vegetables into consideration, as no carbs whatsoever should be ingested during the 3 zero carb days. Do not stay at zero carbs for any longer than 3 days, and never go below 50 carbs as your lowest amount, throughout the entire length of the diet other than the occasional zero carb 3 day period. Any lower, and the brain suffers, and thinking becomes cloudy, as the brain needs a certain amount of carbs to function optimally.


Complex Carbs!!

These are the best sources of clean carbs to use when dieting in general, and when cycling carbs:

Baked Potatoes

Yams

Sweet Potatoes

Brown Rice

Oatmeal

Cream Of Wheat

Grits

I do not eat bread of any kind, or dairy products when dieting, and I recommend that you don't either, to help optimize fat burning. The only time to eat simple carbs other than vegetables is at the post-workout meal when you should take in 50 grams of dextrose with a whey protein shake immediately after training. You do add these carbs from dextrose into your daily total, because even though they are utilized efficiently by the body at the post-workout feeding, they are still carbs, and should count towards your total for the day.Don`t worry about the glycemic index of the foods ,but instead be more concerned with total carbs ingested for the day. It should never be too high!!

I also recommend HIIT cardio while dieting, and a high protein intake throughout the diet, as this will help to ensure that you retain the hard earned muscle that you've garnered from your training.

I hope this article helps you out in your quest for a better physique, and better health, via a lean muscular body.

GOOD LUCK AND TRAIN HARD!

ripitupbaby

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Re: Carb Cycling
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2008, 04:25:23 AM »
Thanks so much for all of the info, guys! 

The articles are great... did anyone else notice that picture of Natalie Benson on the side of the article that flex posted!  :o

Tim, your articles are so informative and easy to understand.   :)
I may try it out, but I may wait till I plateau a little bit, as I am losing pretty good right now. 

I have also heard that 50g is the minimum to fully support your brain, and we all know I need that.  But would you adjust the numbers down a little for someone my size?  Like maybe...
100g
75g
50g
125g
150g

If that's just complex carbs, that's considerably more than I've been taking in on my diet thus far.  I started at around 100 g complex and have cut back now to about 60 g.  This doesn't include any small amount of carbs in my protein shakes, whatever kind they may be (less than 10 g), or the fiber in nuts/PB, which I have (and try to just have a little  :-[) at least 4-5 days out of a week.  I eat a fair amount of veggies, though...I'd guess probably 30-50g worth over the course of the day on most days.

:)

ripitupbaby

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Re: Carb Cycling
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2008, 04:48:35 AM »
Thanks so much for all of the info, guys! 

The articles are great... did anyone else notice that picture of Natalie Benson on the side of the article that flex posted!  :o

Tim, your articles are so informative and easy to understand.   :)
I may try it out, but I may wait till I plateau a little bit, as I am losing pretty good right now. 

I have also heard that 50g is the minimum to fully support your brain, and we all know I need that.  But would you adjust the numbers down a little for someone my size?  Like maybe...
100g
75g
50g
125g
150g

If that's just complex carbs, that's considerably more than I've been taking in on my diet thus far.  I started at around 100 g complex and have cut back now to about 60 g.  This doesn't include any small amount of carbs in my protein shakes, whatever kind they may be (less than 10 g), or the fiber in nuts/PB, which I have (and try to just have a little  :-[) at least 4-5 days out of a week.  I eat a fair amount of veggies, though...I'd guess probably 30-50g worth over the course of the day on most days.




Actually, given my size and the fact that I do get carbs every day from veggies and other sources, I would maybe do something like this with the JUST the complex carbs...and then make sure I eat veggies every day.
45
45
30
60
90
:)

flexingtonsteele

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Re: Carb Cycling
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2008, 12:34:33 PM »
Also, rip, think about this...........If it aint broke, dont fix it. Especially messing around with your diet, this far into your contest prep.......just food for thought.

ripitupbaby

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Re: Carb Cycling
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2008, 12:58:41 PM »
Also, rip, think about this...........If it aint broke, dont fix it. Especially messing around with your diet, this far into your contest prep.......just food for thought.


haha yeah, I know, I hear ya.  I'm not gonna change a thing with my prep unless I get full approval from mama Carla.  I just like to obsess over think about this stuff.   ;D

Actually, what worked last year doesn't seem to be working quite as well (or maybe just not quite as fast) as last year (or maybe I just had further to go than I thought  :-\), so I am just toying with a few different ideas....

:)

flexingtonsteele

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Re: Carb Cycling
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2008, 01:21:56 PM »

haha yeah, I know, I hear ya.  I'm not gonna change a thing with my prep unless I get full approval from mama Carla.  I just like to obsess over think about this stuff.   ;D

Actually, what worked last year doesn't seem to be working quite as well (or maybe just not quite as fast) as last year (or maybe I just had further to go than I thought  :-\), so I am just toying with a few different ideas....



Cool, just making sure, your going to "dance with who brought you to the prom" !

good luck rip. Oh yea, i expect something from  you in my PM box this weekend ok :)

ripitupbaby

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Re: Carb Cycling
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2008, 08:49:51 AM »
I completely forgot that I did a form of carb cycling during my first contest prep back in 2005.  I was working with a different trainer then, and the whole diet was kind of crazy.  But there were three "low" days followed by a "high" day, so I guess that was a carb cycle. 

The entire diet was based on whole, organic foods, mostly raw too, with little protein and high carbs all the way through it.  The "high" day consisted of substituting my protein with a sweet potato in one of my meals (making it an all carb meal :o) and adding more fruit to my breakfast in the morning.  I never really asked about the carb cycling... I just did what she told me LOL.

It was a really unusual kind of contest prep diet, but believe it or not, I got CRAZY LEAN from it.  I lost some muscle for sure, but I was shredded.  And I had a fruit salad for breakfast (strawberries, bananas, avocado) just about every morning until two days out from my competition. :o

It just goes to show how different things work differently for people and how important it is to try things out for yourself to see what works best for you.

:)