President BUSH PARDON's HIMSELF against POTENTIAL WARCRIMES

[Moosejay]

They only report quarterly unemployment percentages. Look at the big picture, think about the unemployed that have been looking for work over the last couple of years.

I just don't see it...oih well

[Moosejay]

I'm doing the best I've ever done.

It has NOTHING to do with Mr. Bush either.

And I still think he's been the worst president one could ever have.

One fact to look at that and realize that it's true; by the end of his first four years, he'd already spent more money than every president in the history of the US combined.

As many know, I have been of ill health for 8 months.

Lost untold business.

Laid off some staff.

And I am still very happy.

I have never, ever BLAMED anyone.

I am still doing well, because I had foresight to prepare myself for personal downturns.

What, I am gonna blame george bush?

Fucking ludicous.

[warrior_code]

Sure.  When the USA was born!

It took 20 years for us to start globalization.  I think it was 1805 that we started chewing up african resources in Tripoli and started what we're continuing today, colonialization/occupation for mgmt of resources.  We don't have to OWN iraqi oil, we just have to control the currency its sold in, and the supply and avenues it takes.  selling it to exxon at dollar means we win... selling to china in euro means we're fuccked.

And yes, our leaders do have our MACRO best interest in mind, along with their own personal pilferage for them and their friends.  They know that owning iraq and afghan oil paths are VERY GOOD for the 300 million of us in the long term.  While Cheney doesn't care what we think, the USA will be stronger in 30 years because of these wars.

\

Do you think it worth USA's reputation around the world?  I just hope they accept there will likely be more attacks on the western world, so long as they only keep their best interests in mind and fuck everybody else's.  I realize that our side of the world is the main fuel that produces more terrorists, and it bothers me.     

[Buffgeek]

Gotta log off now, but I'll look for the replies to this tomorrow...


Has anyone considered what might happen if Obama does well during his first term (yes, he will be president)?

I don't think it's too far beyond the Pale to theorize that he might decide to effectively dismantle the Evangelical-enabled Republican Party (as it is now) by:

-sending Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice to the War Crimes Tribunal in the Hauge
-revoking the Patriot Act
-breaking up the military/industrial monopolies
-breaking up the HMO's

...all of these things would be well within his powers, and well within the law (a consideration obviated by the current administration).


Here in Europe (where culture comes from), we've had big-budget prime time television shows such as "Death of a President" wherein a fictional assassination of George Dubya and ensuing (hypothetical) political fallout was analyzed in a retroactive docu-drama manner (did everything but draw a diagram for any would-be Lee Harvey Oswalds).

Similarly, we've had TV miniseries following a fictionalized Tony Blair's mental breakdown in the weeks leading up to his war crimes tribunal.


Don't think that I'm being extremist here... for America to regain some semblance of respect in the political sphere someone like Obama (or his successor) might well decide to throw these incompetent Neo-Con simpletons to the wolves.


The Luke
PS-Moosejay, you're ignorance and simplistic child-like reasoning are absolutely horrifying.... to this stranger in an office somewhere who doesn't even know you.

Lawl at evangelical enabled Republican party. Way to win at laughable vauge generalizations.

What exact war crimes?

Last I checked the Patriot act enabled lawn enforement to cut through huge roadblocks in fighting our enemies.

Funny thing about the military industrial monopoly comment is name how many companies can actually do the scope of work that is needed by the US military? How many could even do a fraction of the scale of what is needed?

How is healthcare in Europe? do you have to be wealthy to recieve decent care? (honestly I dont know)


Don't really understand the culture comment, but if you are referring to 100 years ago sure. Thats great you guys make a movie pretending to kill the elected leader of the United states. The guy who has protected our country for the last 8 years and has a family just like the rest of us.

George Bush has many faults and I certainly wish we had never invaded Iraq, but people seem to forget that the UN Security Council unanimously adopted Resolution 1441 which basically gave him one last chance to give it up or face the consequences. Also they seem to forget the numerous other resolutions that were ignored previously.

Obviously the guy was putting up a front to Iran because he feared showing just how weak he was, but we had no way of knowing this at the time. To make matters worse Rumsfeld really hosed the begining of the war.


Also from an american standpoint so many people bag on bush, but when was the last time we were attacked? and how much worst could the economy have been had we not had the tax cuts or if our security had been more in doubt?


People say Bush is the worst president ever and I know non americans dont like him because he doesnt give a sh*t about what they think as long as he protects our nation, but do a google search on Jimmy Carter then come back and tell me Bush was the worst president ever.


I do think Obama will win and I fear what he and this congress (who has a 9% approval rating atm btw) could do.  I hope he isnt another carter and when in office can see the reality of what he will face.

[Moosejay]

Lawl at evangelical enabled Republican party. Way to win at laughable vauge generalizations.

What exact war crimes?

Last I checked the Patriot act enabled lawn enforement to cut through huge roadblocks in fighting our enemies.

Funny thing about the military industrial monopoly comment is name how many companies can actually do the scope of work that is needed by the US military? How many could even do a fraction of the scale of what is needed?

How is healthcare in Europe? do you have to be wealthy to recieve decent care? (honestly I dont know)


Don't really understand the culture comment, but if you are referring to 100 years ago sure. Thats great you guys make a movie pretending to kill the elected leader of the United states. The guy who has protected our country for the last 8 years and has a family just like the rest of us.

George Bush has many faults and I certainly wish we had never invaded Iraq, but people seem to forget that the UN Security Council unanimously adopted Resolution 1441 which basically gave him one last chance to give it up or face the consequences. Also they seem to forget the numerous other resolutions that were ignored previously.

Obviously the guy was putting up a front to Iran because he feared showing just how weak he was, but we had no way of knowing this at the time. To make matters worse Rumsfeld really hosed the begining of the war.


Also from an american standpoint so many people bag on bush, but when was the last time we were attacked? and how much worst could the economy have been had we not had the tax cuts or if our security had been more in doubt?


People say Bush is the worst president ever and I know non americans dont like him because he doesnt give a sh*t about what they think as long as he protects our nation, but do a google search on Jimmy Carter then come back and tell me Bush was the worst president ever. I do think Obama will win and I fear what he and this congress (who has a 9% approval rating atm btw) could do.  I hope he isnt another carter and when in office can see the reality of what he will face.

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BINGO

[GigantorX]

\

Do you think it worth USA's reputation around the world?  I just hope they accept there will likely be more attacks on the western world, so long as they only keep their best interests in mind and fuck everybody else's.  I realize that our side of the world is the main fuel that produces more terrorists, and it bothers me.     

It's their religion that is at the very core of producing terrorism. Stop the "it's all our fault!" PC bullshit.

[Buffgeek]

Sure.  When the USA was born!

It took 20 years for us to start globalization.  I think it was 1805 that we started chewing up african resources in Tripoli and started what we're continuing today, colonialization/occupation for mgmt of resources.  We don't have to OWN iraqi oil, we just have to control the currency its sold in, and the supply and avenues it takes.  selling it to exxon at dollar means we win... selling to china in euro means we're fuccked.

And yes, our leaders do have our MACRO best interest in mind, along with their own personal pilferage for them and their friends.  They know that owning iraq and afghan oil paths are VERY GOOD for the 300 million of us in the long term.  While Cheney doesn't care what we think, the USA will be stronger in 30 years because of these wars.

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't american oil companys losing out to foreign ones simply because it will look bad? How much money has the US spent on the rebuilding of Iraq?

Also, I doubt with the Democratic Congress, and a Democratic president we will remain in Iraq much longer regardless of the situation there.

[warrior_code]

It's their religion that is at the very core of producing terrorism. Stop the "it's all our fault!" PC bullshit.

I have a feeling that if we stopped trying to control their countries natural resources we would not get such as bad rap. Of course as 240 said, our side of the world would not be as dominant as it is if we didn't.  We have been apart of plots that have over thrown democratically elected presidents in parts of the middle east because they felt that they had the right to control the fate of their countries natural resources.  Don't blame me if I am a bit skeptical when I hear bush or Harper saying that they hate us due to our freedoms .   

[Moosejay]

It's their religion that is at the very core of producing terrorism. Stop the "it's all our fault!" PC bullshit.

You are to be applauded, GX.

[Moosejay]

I have a feeling that if we stopped trying to control their countries natural resources we would not get such as bad rap. Of course as 240 said, our side of the world would not be as dominant as it is if we didn't.  We have been apart of plots that have over thrown democratically elected presidents in parts of the middle east because they felt that they had the right to control the fate of their countries natural resources.  Don't blame me if I am a bit skeptical when I hear bush or Harper saying that they hate us due to our freedoms .   

Forgive me, THAT I don't buy

[240 is Back]

The foreign firms are all vying for the small sub-contracts.  It will all be overseen by the 4 oil giants, 3 of which are based in the US of A.

And all of the oil will be sold in dollars.  The 3rd largest proven oil reserve in the world will be permanently sold in dollars - which keeps the dollar relevant forever.  Remember - the dollar has lost 41% of its value against the Euro in the last 7 years.  Saddam dumped it in 2003 right before we attacked.  Iran dropping it now.  OPEC considering it.  If they do, you have no idea how bad shit gets here overnight.  That's why it's IMPERATIVE that the iraqi oil stays in dollars.  

Yes, Bush lied about WMD.  yes, 911 was allowed to happen.  Yes, all sorts of shady shit, torture, and war crimes have certainly went down.  And yes, billions were stolen and given to Bush's and cheney's buddies.  But overall, in a few decades, when the dollar is still in play, we'll thank them for what they did, invading iraq and afghanistan.  When china/russia alliance becomes a BEAST in 10 years and saudis kick us out, we'll be VERY glad we have those bases in afghanistan and iraq.

[240 is Back]

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't american oil companys losing out to foreign ones simply because it will look bad? How much money has the US spent on the rebuilding of Iraq?

longterm cost of the war (healthcare included) is $3 tril.  I think we're at 700 bil or so, spending so far.

Iraq is sitting on $50 to $75 trillion worth of saleable oil.

To have US firms control its output, with US bases there to control security, and US military there to do whatever it takes to ensure we stay in charge... borrowing a trillion bucks and losing 4200 lives may be worth it, in the eyes of some.

[GigantorX]

The foreign firms are all vying for the small sub-contracts.  It will all be overseen by the 4 oil giants, 3 of which are based in the US of A.

And all of the oil will be sold in dollars.  The 3rd largest proven oil reserve in the world will be permanently sold in dollars - which keeps the dollar relevant forever.  Remember - the dollar has lost 41% of its value against the Euro in the last 7 years.  Saddam dumped it in 2003 right before we attacked.  Iran dropping it now.  OPEC considering it.  If they do, you have no idea how bad shit gets here overnight.  That's why it's IMPERATIVE that the iraqi oil stays in dollars. 

Yes, Bush lied about WMD.  yes, 911 was allowed to happen.  Yes, all sorts of shady shit, torture, and war crimes have certainly went down.  And yes, billions were stolen and given to Bush's and cheney's buddies.  But overall, in a few decades, when the dollar is still in play, we'll thank them for what they did, invading iraq and afghanistan.  When china/russia alliance becomes a BEAST in 10 years and saudis kick us out, we'll be VERY glad we have those bases in afghanistan and iraq.

I don't agree with everything you say 240 but that was a very good piece of analysis. But, we do need to give credit to Nixon and Kissenger for arranging oil to be sold in dollars in the late 60's early 70's. It saved the dollar from imminent collapse as well.

[warrior_code]

Forgive me, THAT I don't buy

In 1953, the CIA gave money with the intent of it to be used to over throw Mohammed Mosaddeq. 

[GigantorX]

In 1953, the CIA gave money with the intent of it to be used to over throw Mohammed Mosaddeq. 

Just stop. None of these "leaders" are elected through the will of the people. Yes most ME states have bicameral legislatures and they do get "elected" through "voting" but these are mere rubber stamp committees.

[240 is Back]

I don't agree with everything you say 240 but that was a very good piece of analysis. But, we do need to give credit to Nixon and Kissenger for arranging oil to be sold in dollars in the late 60's early 70's. It saved the dollar from imminent collapse as well.

Yep.  Without those bad guys doing their dirt 40 years ago, we'd be poor today.
Without Bush/Cheney doing their dirt today, our grandkids would be poor.

We use 'moral' goggles to see the world.
They use 'utilitarian' goggles to see the world.
Greatest amount of good for future generations of 300 million Americans.  

Bush will be remembered fondly by history, as another FDR, who eradicated terror after a terrible attack and kept the world safe.  Today, we all know that al-Q was a USA invention, 911 allowed to happen, and wars are for oil and bases.  But in 60 years the history books will be sanitized, and we'll all be crapping in diapers and no one will care about what we think anyway

[GigantorX]

Yep.  Without those bad guys doing their dirt 40 years ago, we'd be poor today.
Without Bush/Cheney doing their dirt today, our grandkids would be poor.

We use 'moral' goggles to see the world.
They use 'utilitarian' goggles to see the world.
Greatest amount of good for future generations of 300 million Americans. 

Bush will be remembered fondly by history, as another FDR, who eradicated terror after a terrible attack and kept the world safe.  Today, we all know that al-Q was a USA invention, 911 allowed to happen, and wars are for oil and bases.  But in 60 years the history books will be sanitized, and we'll all be crapping in diapers and no one will care about what we think anyway

Yes, I prefer "realist" goggles.

And I won't wear diapers, I will prefer to go out by simply shitting all over and throwing it at the nurses and doctors at the old folks home while they try to strap me down for electro-shock therapy.

[warrior_code]

Just stop. None of these "leaders" are elected through the will of the people. Yes most ME states have bicameral legislatures and they do get "elected" through "voting" but these are mere rubber stamp committees.

I don't know enough about Middle East politics to argue that.  But the point still stands, I would be very upset if foreign officials tried to control the fate of my country.   

[gordiano]

What does this thread have to do with:

1) Men in thongs

2) Golf


 

[GigantorX]

I don't know enough about Middle East politics to argue that.  But the point still stands, I would be very upset if foreign officials tried to control the fate of my country.   

I appreciate your honesty, that is truly something that most political arguments on GetBig lack.

[CARTEL]

I have a feeling that if we stopped trying to control their countries natural resources we would not get such as bad rap. Of course as 240 said, our side of the world would not be as dominant as it is if we didn't.  We have been apart of plots that have over thrown democratically elected presidents in parts of the middle east because they felt that they had the right to control the fate of their countries natural resources.  Don't blame me if I am a bit skeptical when I hear bush or Harper saying that they hate us due to our freedoms .   

Clinton basically rolled over for the Terrorists and they continued to attack us around the world. A lot of those whimpy nations in Europe (Spain) rolls over for them and they still get attacked. So it must be something else.

Maybe it's because we don't kill our wives and daughters for "disgracing" our family.

[GigantorX]

Clinton basically rolled over for the Terrorists and they continued to attack us around the world. A lot of those whimpy nations in Europe (Spain) rolls over for them and they still get attacked. So it must be something else.

Maybe it's because we don't kill our wives and daughters for "disgracing" our family.

Pakistan keeps signing "cease fire" agreements with Taliban militants in Wurzistan and other border regions...if anyone has had a look at the news lately, they will see how that is going for them.

[YoungBlood]

As many know, I have been of ill health for 8 months.

Lost untold business.

Laid off some staff.

And I am still very happy.

I have never, ever BLAMED anyone.

I am still doing well, because I had foresight to prepare myself for personal downturns.

What, I am gonna blame george bush?

Fucking ludicous.

Can't see the forest for the trees, eh?

[CARTEL]

Pakistan keeps signing "cease fire" agreements with Taliban militants in Wurzistan and other border regions...if anyone has had a look at the news lately, they will see how that is going for them.

Maybe the Taliban just meant for the Paki's to cease fire.

That would make it easier for them.

[warrior_code]

I appreciate your honesty, that is truly something that most political arguments on GetBig lack.

I am just some 20 year old guy here to learn.  Who would have know so many knowledgeable people would be on a bbing board?  Geopolitics can be very complex.