In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, Juda

[Deedee]

For starters, we ain't animals; we're people, unfortunately with sinful nature. What happens when man stops caring about what happens to "society" and "humanity", as long as his fleshy needs get gratified?

I only brought up animals to show that all creatures have an impetus to survive and flourish, even on instinct alone.  Human beings will always "care" for the reasons stated in this thread, which I guess you can accept or not. As a few people stated, you are a Christian believer, maybe since the time you could walk, so you're inured to the idea of God as the only deterrent to crime or sin. It's quite obvious that this isn't so and there are many devout criminals among us. Actually, you could say it's easier to be good when there is no chance for forgiveness, no supernatural being to wipe the slate clean.  You're stuck with your miserable life and the horrible things you did.  Death row inmates who've 'found" God seem to be more serene than the Atheist murderer who knows what a piece of crap he is.

Owning slaves isn't an issue, especially since the lion's share of the "slaves" in the OT were what we called "indentured servants". Not that such was mandatory, anyway. Certainly, there were NOT the chattle slaves that blacks were in America.

Once again, you have the rapist thing wrong. First, 50 shekels was about 5-7 years wages. In US dollars today, that's an average of at least $200,000. Secondly, as we've discussed before, the whole issue centered on one aspect: MATERIAL CARE for the victim (the sole reason the rapist is kept alive). And, it's not mandatory that she be married to the victim, anyway. He simply has to cough up the dough or become a "slave" to pay off the debt. Of course, if the victim is already married or bethroed, that care is already in place.....BYE-BYE RAPIST!!!!

As for that last blurb, it takes a whole lot more than "mouthing off" to get the death penalty.

We have changed our morality, throughout the ages. But, it ain't always for the better. Going back to the rapist thing, they can get a light sentence and "paid their debt to society"; meanwhile, the victims are devastated for years to come, with no aid (of any source). Again, the rapist don't foot the medical care for physical wounds or pay for the shrink that the victim may have to see for months/years. Nor, does he pay for back wages lost.

I don't believe there are many women who want to be married off to their rapists these days.  You could take a survey and I doubt you'd find any at all.  Women are no longer considered the property of the patriarch. And for every light sentence there are rapists who get many, many years. Serial rapists often don't get out at all.  I know we've gone through this before, but the fact is, MOST people find indentured servitude/slavery, etc... immoral today.  The point is simply... we create our laws based on man's reasoning... mutual cooperation.

[Deicide]

I only brought up animals to show that all creatures have an impetus to survive and flourish, even on instinct alone.  Human beings will always "care" for the reasons stated in this thread, which I guess you can accept or not. As a few people stated, you are a Christian believer, maybe since the time you could walk, so you're inured to the idea of God as the only deterrent to crime or sin. It's quite obvious that this isn't so and there are many devout criminals among us. Actually, you could say it's easier to be good when there is no chance for forgiveness, no supernatural being to wipe the slate clean.  You're stuck with your miserable life and the horrible things you did.  Death row inmates who've 'found" God seem to be more serene than the Atheist murderer who knows what a piece of crap he is.

I don't believe there are many women who want to be married off to their rapists these days.  You could take a survey and I doubt you'd find any at all.  Women are no longer considered the property of the patriarch. And for every light sentence there are rapists who get many, many years. Serial rapists often don't get out at all.  I know we've gone through this before, but the fact is, MOST people find indentured servitude/slavery, etc... immoral today.  The point is simply... we create our laws based on man's reasoning... mutual cooperation.

Not to change the topic, but would you accept the idea that men are property of the matriarch?

[MCWAY]

I only brought up animals to show that all creatures have an impetus to survive and flourish, even on instinct alone.  Human beings will always "care" for the reasons stated in this thread, which I guess you can accept or not. As a few people stated, you are a Christian believer, maybe since the time you could walk, so you're inured to the idea of God as the only deterrent to crime or sin. It's quite obvious that this isn't so and there are many devout criminals among us. Actually, you could say it's easier to be good when there is no chance for forgiveness, no supernatural being to wipe the slate clean.  You're stuck with your miserable life and the horrible things you did.  Death row inmates who've 'found" God seem to be more serene than the Atheist murderer who knows what a piece of crap he is.

Not necessarily. There are many who think they've reached the point of no return, that God could never forgive them for what they've done. And, forgiveness of sin doesn't always wipe out earthly consequences for sinful behavior. King David is a prime example of that.

I don't believe there are many women who want to be married off to their rapists these days.  You could take a survey and I doubt you'd find any at all.  Women are no longer considered the property of the patriarch. And for every light sentence there are rapists who get many, many years. Serial rapists often don't get out at all.  I know we've gone through this before, but the fact is, MOST people find indentured servitude/slavery, etc... immoral today.  The point is simply... we create our laws based on man's reasoning... mutual cooperation.

There aren't many women who would want to be married off to their rapists. But, there are many who would want high accountability for the man responsible for their assault. In the OT, paying the bride-price and being committed to caring for a woman's material needs FOR LIFE was part of that accountability (if the victim was unmarried). Otherwise, it's the DEATH PENALTY. And, I'm sure there are plenty of rape victims who wouldn't mind seeing their assailants, strapped to Old Sparky. Based on OT laws, there would be NO serial rapists.

As for slavery, I couldn't agree more. But, as I've said before, when people think of slavery, they often think of the chattel slavery to which blacks were subjects, where the masters could do whatever, whenever with virtually no consequence.

[loco]

Neo-Darwinism

"As a scientist I am quite hostile to a rival doctrine" - Richard Dawkins


results for: doctrine Browse Nearby Entries
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
doc·trine   Audio Help   /ˈdɒktrɪn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dok-trin] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun

1. a particular principle, position, or policy taught or advocated, as of a religion or government: Catholic doctrines; the Monroe Doctrine. 

2. something that is taught; teachings collectively: religious doctrine. 

3. a body or system of teachings relating to a particular subject: the doctrine of the Catholic Church.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Origin: 1350–1400; ME < AF < L doctrīna teaching, equiv. to doct(o)r doctor + -īna -ine2]

—Synonyms 1. tenet, dogma, theory, precept, belief.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

[Deedee]

Not to change the topic, but would you accept the idea that men are property of the matriarch?

Are you talking about the fans of female bodybuilding who frequent this board?  Or just in general?

[Deicide]

Are you talking about the fans of female bodybuilding who frequent this board?  Or just in general?

In general...

[Deedee]

Not necessarily. There are many who think they've reached the point of no return, that God could never forgive them for what they've done. And, forgiveness of sin doesn't always wipe out earthly consequences for sinful behavior. King David is a prime example of that.

If you're speaking of Catholics and Jews, I believe you.

There aren't many women who would want to be married off to their rapists. But, there are many who would want high accountability for the man responsible for their assault. In the OT, paying the bride-price and being committed to caring for a woman's material needs FOR LIFE was part of that accountability (if the victim was unmarried). Otherwise, it's the DEATH PENALTY. And, I'm sure there are plenty of rape victims who wouldn't mind seeing their assailants, strapped to Old Sparky. Based on OT laws, there would be NO serial rapists.

As for slavery, I couldn't agree more. But, as I've said before, when people think of slavery, they often think of the chattel slavery to which blacks were subjects, where the masters could do whatever, whenever with virtually no consequence.

As far as I know, that OT reference requires marriage to one's rapist, but in any case, NO, I wouldn't want some rapist working off his bride-price debt in my dad's store or whatever, because I was now "ruined." Wouldn't want his money or anything to do with him, EVER. I'd want him locked away so he couldn't harm anyone else, while walking around free.  Death penalty? Sure... but I'd hope they'd get hit with bigger rocks than the non-virgins.

Anyway, point is STILL that man interprets the bible, etc... according to moral ethics of the times. People thought slavery was okay based on their interpretations of the OT at the time. Today we don't.  You must make your own judgements every day as well. You defend the rape laws, but I'm sure you'll enjoy a cheeseburger, and your wife doesn't go to the mikvah.  You probably despise homosexuality, but would eat shellfish. 

[Deedee]

In general...

lol... I don't believe anyone should be the property of anyone else, unless if it was mutually agreeable to both for whatever emotional and other reasons. 

Are you asking because you feel we live in a matriarchal society?

[Deicide]

lol... I don't believe anyone should be the property of anyone else, unless if it was mutually agreeable to both for whatever emotional and other reasons. 

Are you asking because you feel we live in a matriarchal society?

Define matriarchal and I may answer yes, depending on the definition.

[Deedee]

Define matriarchal and I may answer yes, depending on the definition.

hmmm... not sure, how about lineage, wealth, property passed down through the females.  Positions of power held by same within the community.

If you're thinking emotional/sexual holding of all the cards, that doesn't apply.   

[Deicide]

hmmm... not sure, how about lineage, wealth, property passed down through the females.  Positions of power held by same within the community.

If you're thinking emotional/sexual holding of all the cards, that doesn't apply.   

Why not?

[loco]

Drow society is a matriarchal society.   

[MCWAY]

hmmm... not sure, how about lineage, wealth, property passed down through the females.  Positions of power held by same within the community.

That did occur in the Old Testament, to a degree. If a man had no sons, the eldest daughter became the father’s heir. However, if memory serves me correctly, she had to marry within her father’s tribe. And there were female judges and prophetesses, such as Deborah and Anna, the prophetess who saw Jesus' dedication at the temple as a 6-week old baby.

[MCWAY]

If you're speaking of Catholics and Jews, I believe you.

As far as I know, that OT reference requires marriage to one's rapist, but in any case, NO, I wouldn't want some rapist working off his bride-price debt in my dad's store or whatever, because I was now "ruined." Wouldn't want his money or anything to do with him, EVER. I'd want him locked away so he couldn't harm anyone else, while walking around free.  Death penalty? Sure... but I'd hope they'd get hit with bigger rocks than the non-virgins.

I believe non-virgins didn't get put to death......UNLESS they're involved in adulterous affairs or prostitution. I agree with you about the rocks, though  . Besides, I'd think that the modern equivalent would be making the guy work and syphoning the guy's check (ala child support from deadbeat dads). Of course, I'd prefer the trip to the chair for the rapist, but that's just me.

Anyway, point is STILL that man interprets the bible, etc... according to moral ethics of the times. People thought slavery was okay based on their interpretations of the OT at the time. Today we don't.  You must make your own judgements every day as well. You defend the rape laws, but I'm sure you'll enjoy a cheeseburger, and your wife doesn't go to the mikvah.  You probably despise homosexuality, but would eat shellfish. 

I don't eat shellfish. As for the rape laws, what I've said about them is that they make sense. At one point, I thought the concept was bizzare and unthinkable. But, after doing some research on the subject, it made a lot more sense.

[Deicide]

Drow society is a matriarchal society.   

Yes, I am well aware...all because of this bitch:

[loco]

Yes, I am well aware...all because of this bitch:

LOL     

[Deicide]

LOL     

Did you know that she has now eliminated all the other drow gods?

[loco]

Did you know that she has now eliminated all the other drow gods?

Really?  No, I haven't kept up with all that.  I really enjoyed reading the first few Drizzt books.  I also enjoyed reading Entreri's and Jarlaxle's short stories and their first of three books.  I have also read some of their comic book versions that are now coming out.  There is a rumor that they are going to try to make a movie.  I hope it is a good one and not one that will ruin the story and the characters.

[Deicide]

Really?  No, I haven't kept up with all that.  I really enjoyed reading the first few Drizzt books.  I also enjoyed reading Entreri's and Jarlaxle's short stories and their first of three books.  I have also read some of their comic book versions that are now coming out.  There is a rumor that they are going to try to make a movie.  I hope it is a good one and not one that will ruin the story and the characters.

Yes, total overhaul of everything. All the other drow gods were killed...and much, much more...tell me, how much are you into D&D? Or was it just the novels?

[loco]

Yes, total overhaul of everything. All the other drow gods were killed...and much, much more...tell me, how much are you into D&D? Or was it just the novels?

Some friends talked me into playing it for a while before I knew anything about it.  I was not any good at it and I did not enjoy it much.  I guess I did not have the imagination for it and it was too slow for me.  But I did love the worlds created for it, the different races, the magic, the art, the novels, etc.  Most of it reminds me of "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings".  I then played some video games, "Eye of the Beholder", "Baldur's Gate", "Forgotten Realms Demon Stone", etc.  I did like the video games a lot.  That's about it.

[Deicide]

Some friends talked me into playing it for a while before I knew anything about it.  I was not any good at it and I did not enjoy it much.  I guess I did not have the imagination for it and it was too slow for me.  But I did love the worlds created for it, the different races, the magic, the art, the novels, etc.  Most of it reminds me of "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings".  I then played some video games, "Eye of the Beholder", "Baldur's Gate", "Forgotten Realms Demon Stone", etc.  I did like the video games a lot.  That's about it.

You, a lack of imagination? Never...what about Jebus?

[loco]

You, a lack of imagination? Never...what about Jebus?

You mean Jesus?  Oh, I did not imagine Him.  D&D is a fantacy world.  Jesus however is real and He transformed the real world and He transformed me too.     

[Deicide]

You mean Jesus?  Oh, I did not imagine Him.  D&D is a fantacy world.  Jesus however is real and He transformed the real world and He transformed me too.     

About as real as Drizzt Do'Urden I would say...