GHRP-6 and CJC-1295

[Emmortal]

I've been doing a lot of reading on these two peptides and they've shown some incredibly interesting results.  There are a few guys who advocate their use even over GH due to the fact that they increase the pulse intensity of natural GH vs synthetic administration.  The argument being that the body responds much better, especially for muscle growth to it's own natural production of GH versus that of synthetic GH.  It seems there's a synergistic effect when both are used together. 

Anyone give this stuff a try?  I can post some of the information from another board if you guys want.  The biggest advantages, other than the fact that they promote natural GH production, is the price compared to using synthetic GH and the fact that they aren't illegal to buy, so it might be something everyone would want to look into.

[thelamefalsehood]

I asked about this stuff a few months ago and got little response as well. I know it is floating around now but I think the main drawback is the amount needed to see true gains. It is relatively inexpensive, but for the amount you need, it does add up $ wise. I read though the more used in studies the response was really amplifoed. I'd wait to see feedback from more people, reports should already be out there.

[Emmortal]

Yea your post sparked some interest in me and I started doing some research on it.  It does indeed add up money wise, but if you compare it to an equal amount of GH the price is still cheaper and legal.  There's a guy on another board in his 40's that's been posting a lot of good info on it and his feedback from it seems pretty incredible.  He's someone I'd trust to know what he's talking about and has done a ton of research on it.  I'll dig up some of his posts and post them here, lots of good info.

[Emmortal]

Posted by dabtrue on another board:

GHRP-6, GHRP-2 and Hexarelin are all interchangeable. They are treated as interchangeable in the studies. They work via the same mode of action. Their slight differences are probably attributable to the different "batches" of non-pituitary neurons they excite. One peptide may excite one "batch" more or less than another.

Hexarelin is the strongest of the GHS peptides. It also induces higher amounts of cortisol & prolactin then the other peptides. It may (according to one comparison study) desensitize quicker. GHRP-2 is a little less strong with less impact on cortisol & prolactin. GHRP-6 has very little impact on cortisol & prolactin (although it is a little elevated above 1mcg/kg dosing) and is a little less stronger than GHRP-2.

So you could choose whichever is cheaper. I know GHRP-6 & GHRP-2 cost the same to make. However GHRP-6 at the moment at retail level is a lot cheaper...

There is no direct benefit to combining GHRPs because they all act through the same mode of action. You just choose one and run it from the saturation dose of 100mcg up to the maximally beneficial dose (which would be 300mcg - 400mcg) at each administration.

I know on the web you see old posts where people talk about the positive effect of combining Hex & GHRP-6. Thats just incorrect. What you do is make a decision on how much GHS you want to run and then choose among the GHS (GHRP-2, GHRP-6, Hexarelin, Ipamorelin). If you choose to use 300mcg you could use half (150mcg) of GHRP-2 and half GHRP-6 OR use Hexarelin , GHRP-2, GHRP-6 in equal thirds to fill that 300mcg dose slot.

However there is no synergy between these GHRPs and no advantage to dosing in total above 300 - 400mcg.

The GHRPs (GHRP-6, etc.) should ALWAYS be dosed at bed if you can (if you miss a dose no big deal). Depending on what study you read upto 85% of GH release in males occurs in that night-time (just after you fall asleep) pulse/spike. A dose of GHRP-6 of any amount will amplify that pulse which will give you more GH for the night. Looking at the study charts it appears that the pulse ends up being 2x to 6x higher than normal. Optimal dosage is 100mcg upto 300mcg - 400mcg. I've experimented with all doses and found 100mcg to be just fine BUT I do notice even deeper sleep at 200 & 300mcg dosing.

Keep in mind that glucose and fatty acids blunt (but don't eliminate) GHRPs induced GH release. The peak of the pulse occurs 30 minutes after dosing GHRPs so optimally take the dose on an empty stomach and wait 30 minutes before eating. This doesn't have to be exact...just the way to maxamize the pulse secretion. GHRPs can be analogized to a non-estered testosterone such as Test-suspension. You take it...you get the effect...then its gone.

CJC-1295 on the other hand is long-lasting. Most people are dosing it twice per week... That means no matter where you are or what you're doing throughout the week you have elevated levels of GH in your body. CJC-1295 can be analogized to a longer-estered testosterone such as enanthate.

Most are dosing it at 2mg per week split in two doses because that is what the CJC study in humans used (actually close to the mimimal dose of that study) and because these are bodybuilders tring to maxamize GH. But IF they used GHRP-6 a few times a day they could get an even higher amount of GH release or....

...if you are a 42 year old guy like me...and you understand that CJC-1295 = GHRH...and 100mcg of GHRH combined with 100-300mcg of GHRP-6 is hugely synergetic...and you are only trying to achieve a really good GH level then you experiment. It is now very well established throughout a body of research spanning more than a decade that includes more than thirty studies in humans that there is huge synergy in vivo between Growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH) (of which CJC-1295 is a long-lasting analog) and Growth hormone releasing peptides (GHRP-6, GHRP-2, Hexarelin, Ipamorelin).

I experimented with just one dose of 100mcg CJC-1295 before bed...plus my 3x per day GHRP-6 dosing. I did this daily which meant 700mcg was used per week. That became my standard dosing scheme.

However, for the last three weeks I have been on an anabolic cycle (test, t3, slin) and wanted high GH levels. So my dosing protocol has been 100mcg CJC-1295 3x per day and GHRP-6 (100mcg-200mcg) dosed with it 3 x per day. That equates to 2100mcg of CJC-1295. I am finding this to amount to a high level of GH & to be hugely synergistic w/ the test & slin.

So my base level of GH stays elevated, IGF-1 stays elevated and when I add the GHRP-6 I induce a two hour amplified pulse of GH release which is great for growth. My dosing creates a pulse in the morning, post-work out and pre-bed.

[Emmortal]

This question was asked:

How does PGH (tyric-6) fit in? Or would it fit in good at all?

Response:

I'm in a position to answer the question because I started with just pGH for about three months. My sleep was awesome and after three months I KNEW that my growth hormone levels had a subtle bump up thanks to gaba/gabob. I just looked in the mirror and realized I felt a lot better. Someone once guesstimated that it gave a 1iu GH equivalent boost.

Then I ran GHRP-6 by itself for a couple of months and I felt that my body had a much larger bump in GH levels as a result...more along the lines of a 3iu GH equivalent. These numbers don't mean anything by-the-way I am just using them for a relative comparison. [3 to 1... 4 to 1]

I took a one week break from GHRP-6 and just used the pGH. I felt subjectively that it wasn't as effective.

Slow Wave Sleep & Growth Hormone Night-time release are positively correlated. If you increase Slow Wave Sleep you will increase GH. Conversely it has been shown that if your Slow Wave Sleep is interrupted as is the case with sleep apnea your GH night pulse is diminished. So with that in mind here is something I wrote a few months ago on Slow Wave Sleep, GH & pGH.

Slow Wave Sleep (SWS) enhancers

SWS & GH release

There are two types of sleep, rapid eye movement (REM) and non-rapid eye movement (NREM). Sleep proceeds in cycles composed of four types of stages of NREM and a stage of REM usually ordered as: 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 3 > 2 > REM

The cycle lasts on average 90 to 110 minutes, with a greater quantity of stages 3 and 4 experienced early in the night and more REM later in the night.

NREM accounts for 75–80% of total sleep time. Non-REM is comprised of four stages; stages 1 and 2 are considered 'light sleep', and 3 and 4 'deep sleep' or slow-wave sleep (SWS).

It has been shown that sleep, more specifically slow-wave sleep (SWS), does affect growth hormone levels in adult men. During eight hours sleep, it has been demonstrated in several studies that the men with a high percentage of SWS (average 24%) also had high growth hormone secretion, while subjects with a low percentage of SWS (average 9%) had low growth hormone secretion.

In one very complete study referenced by several others, it was demonstrated that “GH secretory rates and peripheral GH concentrations were maximally correlated with sleep stage, with lags of 4.5 and 16 min, respectively, suggesting that maximal GH release occurs within minutes of the onset of stage 3 or 4 sleep”.

Furthermore “sleep-related augmentation of GH secretion… usually occurs around midnight and the GH levels at that time are, as a rule, at their highest during the 24-hour period. Partially, this phenomenon is time-entrained and partially related to sleep itself. It is associated with a slow wave sleep, and the maximal GH levels occur within minutes of the onset of slow wave sleep” - Holl RW, Hartman ML, Veldhuis JD, et al. Thirty-second sampling of plasma growth hormone in man: correlation with sleep stages. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1991;72:854–61.


The origin of nocturnal GH release in humans is still unknown. Most likely hypothalamic GHRH release is a major contributing component, but an additional role of another factor, presumably augmenting GHRH responsiveness of the somatotrophs, is likely. However the precise explanatory mechanisms are still not fully identified.

It is worth reiterating though that nocturnal release of GH makes up only a fraction of the total daily GH release in women, but the bulk of GH output in men.

Gaba & its derivatives

Gamma-amino butyric acid (GABA) is an amino acid and the chief inhibitory neurotransmitter in the central nervous system and the retinas of humans, which regulates muscle tone and other functions. It is also chiefly an excitatory neurotransmitter in most species.

GABA taken orally has been purported to increase the amount of the Human Growth Hormone. One such study demonstrated that gram amounts “induced clear-cut GH increments in plasma with a peak after 60–90 minutes”. The results of those studies have been seldom replicated, and have recently been in question since it is unknown whether GABA can pass the blood-brain barrier. However GABA when taken in injected form has been shown to both pass the blood-brain barrier and have a pronounced GH secretory effect.

At various times & in various studies GABA has been found to both inhibit GH release and exacerbate it. This contradiction is explained as… “inhibition of the GH release stimulated by GABA and its ability to raise baseline GH share the same basic mechanism, i.e., an action through dopaminergic (DA) neurons. Continuous stimulation of central nervous system (CNS-DA) receptors by GABA mimetics through DA release would ultimately lead to a state of partial refractoriness to DA-mediated events…”

The key then appears to be the avoidance of continuous stimulation of the central nervous system.

Two derivatives of GABA, gamma-amino-beta-hydroxy butyric acid (GABOB) and gamma- hydroxy butyric acid (GHB) have been shown to increase GH secretion as well.

PGH (aka Tyric-6)

PGH (Tyric-6) is a gaba-derivative injectable growth hormone stimulant that simply contains:

GABA - a neurotransmitter with a stabilizing role in the brain that has a calming effect. GABA also under certain circumstances increases levels of human growth hormone; and

GABOB - This has been used in the treatment of epilepsy, but it is a legal molecule that is very similar to GHB (a now illegal molecule) without GHBs negative effects; and

Magnesium amino-bromohydrate - An essential mineral which enhances the effect of GABA & GABOB.

The key to understanding why pGH (Tyric-6) is an effective GH releaser is recognizing that GHB (and presumably GABOB as well as GABA in certain circumstances) enhances both slow wave sleep and GH release. - Van Cauter E, Plat L, Scharf MB, et al. Simultaneous stimulation of slow-wave sleep and growth hormone secretion by gamma-hydroxybutyrate in normal young men. J Clin Invest 1997;100:745–53.

While GHB is illegal and not a component of PGH, its similarly structured brother GABOB has been shown to enhance slow wave sleep as well as increase GH. “Significant increases of prolactin and GH plasma levels were observed after injection with 100 mg GABOB”. - Gamma-amino-beta-hydroxy butyric acid stimulates prolactin and growth hormone release in normal women, P Fioretti,… Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Vol 47, 1336-1340

In another study an intrathecal injection of 300 mg of L-GABOB to cerebrovascular patients caused significant increases in plasma GH, prolactin and cortisol levels at 60 min after injection. These results indicate that GABOB may elicit the secretion of GH, prolactin and ACTH via the central nervous system. - Stimulatory Effects of Gamma-Aminohydroxybutyric Acid (GABOB) on Growth Hormone, Prolactin and Cortisol Release in Man, J. Takahara…


Although the data is sparse and GABA studies as they relate to GH release no longer occur it appears that injectable forms of GABA & its derivatives enhance SWS (slow wave sleep) which is the time period GH is secreted. Since the majority of GH release is secreted in the first early round of SWS it seems that administration of PGH (GABA & GABOB) by injection just prior to sleep will enhance restful sleep and increase the GH secretory pulse.

Over the last few years anectdotal feedback from users including myself report both of these occurances. A protocol involving taking periodic breaks from use appears to be sufficient to promote continued effectiveness.

PGH is a simple, safe and effective compound whose ingredients may be purchased easily over the counter. GABA is sold in most supplement stores, while GABOB is harder to source but is available with international sourcing likely being less expensive.

Of course pGH is available from a research chemical facility and if purchased already assembled need only be reconstituted in Bacteriastatic Water prior to use.

[Emmortal]

do you think there would be good synergy with GHRP-6 or other GHS hexapeptides and pGH?

Synergy according to the studies means that the overall end effect is greater than the additive value of the contributions of each individual component.

So with GHRP-6 and GHRH they found only an additive effect in vitro (i.e. in the lab dish) but when the two were administed together in vivo (in the body) the effect was synergistic.

For example if GHRH contributes a value of say 2 to GH release and GHRP-6 contributes say 5 to GH release the additive value (2 + 5) = 7 There is value if the two work together additively.

Synergy works differently. For example if GHRH contributes a value of say 2 to GH release and GHRP-6 contributes say 5 to GH release but when administered together they act synergistically such that (2 + 5) = 18 There is huge value if the two work together synergistically.

This is an important distinction.

To answer your question if there is value in using both GHRPs & pGH... if there is value it is probably only additive not synergistic.

TripDog over at AM uses both. His protocol is 400-500 mcg of Ghrp-6 and 500mcg pGh 5 days a week. I don't know if he feels he gets a great benefit from the two or if he just has a lot of both sitting around that he needs to get rid of.

[Emmortal]

Question:

Hi, I appreciate you posting this information as it has caught my interest in these peptides. I have a few questions. First off, why were you dosing the CJC before bed?

Also, do you believe taking smaller amounts of CJC everday is more effective than taking it twice a week in larger doses?

Since you are on an anabolic cycle right now, you say you wanted "high" GH levels. Can you compare this to r-hgh, letting us know what you think its equivalent to? 10 iu a day? 20 iu a day? thanks!!

Response:

I know it takes a long time to read these articles. I really "dumbed down" the CJC-1295 article but the key to understanding all of this is in the second article on GH Secretagogues & also in the third article where I compare it to synthetic GH.

I have a thread on ProfMuscle where I was beat into the ground on dosing by people who probably didn't read the articles... I have listened to pundits say "just use GH" so many f@cking times in threads where my name was mentioned and I kept my tongue bit because I'm not here to evangelize this stuff and I don't care to educate those guys. I actually prefer to now retreat from the boards and take my knowledge with me...with a huge smile on my face.

I did ALL of this research for myself ...and wrote things to explain concepts to myself...I posted some of it on AM and then was persuaded to write some synthesis of it all.

I actually have a lot of respect for BabyBlu and I know that there are thinking minds here so I'm going to unbite my tongue and say a few things I haven't really said before. By-the-way none of this is directed at you...

First no matter what your age, a nondiseased person continues to possess the ability to produce GH way above youthful levels (yes even at bodybuilding dose levels... yes even at a 20iu GH equivalent). This ability is just untapped ...but easily tapped into with hormones that amplify the positive signals, reduce the negative signals and command as part of their hormone mandate GH release.

There is nothing inferior about Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone. It is a hormone. There is nothing inferior about GHRP-6. It is a synthetic of the hormone Ghrelin, posessing the GH releasing properties & few of the negative properties of that native hormone. There are receptors for these compounds...just like the the end product hormone Growth Hormone.

Second the growth hormone you produce is superior to synthetic GH. Naturally produced GH is a family of isoforms of GH, fragments & low & high binding proteins and complexes. The largest components of this natural family are the isoform 22kDa & 20kDa.

Synthetic GH is ONLY made up of 22kDa.

So exogenic administration of GH is NOT identical to endogenic naturally produced GH. Dr. Di Pasquale brings up an interesting possibility. "Although synthetic GH is certainly effective for its intended purpose, i.e. growth promotion, it is not known if it is sufficient for optimal growth."

What is clear is that administering just one of the isoforms (22kDa) is "different" than doubling, tripling, etc. your own "family" of GH isoforms only a portion of which is 22kDa.

We don't yet understand the "function" or activity of all the isoforms. However there are studies that have compared the 22kDa w/ 20kDa and found them to both be equally effective for growth, bone growth, IGF-1 synthesis, etc. But where they may differ is that the 20kDa may cause less edema/carpal tunnel effect, lower diabetic effect and definitely has a lower affinity for being bound by binding proteins...which means it has a longer activity.

This could possibly account for why blood glucose level is lower in "that one AM posters report" on CJC vs when he tested it during GH administration.

It also may mean that 1 unit of externally administered 22kDa GH is "weaker" then 1 unit of internally generated GH family.

One study determined that the proportion of GH isoforms changed during exercise and into recovery. Specifically non-22kDa GH increased during recovery. The biological significance points to such things as a GH isoform profile favoring lipolysis in order to meet fuel needs.

When the 22kDa GH isoform is administered it prevents 20kDa GH from being created and also vice versa. If 20kDa were administered it also prevents 22kDa from being created.

My point is that IF you had the choice between a unit of naturally produced GH family and synthetic external GH you are probably better off with the natural. This holds true if you are trying to cure a deficiency, if you are using it for anti-aging, if you are looking for a reduction in your fat pad, if you want to use it to bodybuild.

There are reasons why old-timers swear that the original GH taken form pituitaries of cadavers way back when was "better" then the synthetic GH sold as a drug today.

So comparing the two (synthetic GH & the natural GH produced because CJC-1295/GHRP-6 promted such release) require more than a simple quantitiy comparison.

And yet IF that is what one wants to do it can be done via the method I used in the 3rd article (i.e. look to GH levels in blood plasma post-administration). The 24 hour GH profile between GH & CJC-1295 is different but the absolute amount of total GH released with just 2.1mg of CJC-1295 exceeds that which is in blood plasma as a result of 20iu of GH a day.

I'm not an evangelist. I don't sell this sh1t and I don't want to be an internet guru. Heck I try to figure out how to import this stuff for my personal use just like everybody else. My interest is me and if someone wants to learn something I don't mind sharing what "little" i know.

I usually don't even really want to discuss my cycles. But you asked and so I'll tell you that I primed my body w/ lower doses of GHRP-6 & CJC-1295 for a while and when it came time to start my 6 week cycle of test, M14ADD, T3 and 4-5iu of Hum-R in the morning and 4-5iu of Hum-R post-work out I upped the dosage of CJC-1295 the week before (weekly total of 2.1mg). ...and I eat & eat during my two 5 hour slin windows. After 3 weeks I have gained 3 pounds of water and 10 pounds of lean tissue w/ really no change in my bodyfat levels. I fully expect that rate to continue for the next 3 weeks for a total of 20 pounds of lean tissue w/ very little if any bodyfat. In just 6 weeks? In a 42 year old male? That's crazy! Yep.

So you can understand why I look in the mirror everyday and see growth and I just smile because I KNOW.

GHRH (of which CJC-1295 is a long-lasting analog) + GHRP-6 creates a 2 hour pulse of GH release. Pulsation is important for growth. The combo can create a pulse where there is none or amplify an existing pulse. The night-time pulse is in males the biggest pulse by far. Using this combo to amplify this pulse results in more GH release than if used to just create a pulse. Slow Wave Sleep & GH release are positively correlated. If you increase one the other is increased and vice versa. So increasing night-time GH will increase deep restful sleep. We repair & grow while we sleep ...it makes since to make sure GH release is amplified at that time.

CJC-1295 elevates the base levels of GH. Although natural pulsation is preserved these pulses are not amplified. Administering GHRP-6 (or any GHRP) will create/amplify a pulse and coadministering it with GHRH (of which CJC-1295 is a long-lasting analog) will create a synergisticly higher GH pulse at each co-dosing.

So why not dose in the manner I described? You get two benefits for the price of one with the sole negative inconvenience because of dose frequency.

Smaller more frequent doses do NOT increase the overall amount of CJC in comparision to an equivalent amount split into larger doses. The total amount of CJC in the body will be the same. The extra benefit is as previously described.

[thelamefalsehood]

I think if you had extra money to just give it say a 4-5 month trial at an optimal dosage, it would more than likely be worth it. If you do try it, run a log on here and let us know how it goes, definitely sounds more promising than alot of other peptides that have come along in the past couple years.

[Emmortal]

I'll probably do it at the beginning of the year and definitely run a log.