GHRP-6 and CJC-1295
Emmortal:
I've been doing a lot of reading on these two peptides and they've shown some incredibly interesting results. There are a few guys who advocate their use even over GH due to the fact that they increase the pulse intensity of natural GH vs synthetic administration. The argument being that the body responds much better, especially for muscle growth to it's own natural production of GH versus that of synthetic GH. It seems there's a synergistic effect when both are used together.
Anyone give this stuff a try? I can post some of the information from another board if you guys want. The biggest advantages, other than the fact that they promote natural GH production, is the price compared to using synthetic GH and the fact that they aren't illegal to buy, so it might be something everyone would want to look into.
thelamefalsehood:
I asked about this stuff a few months ago and got little response as well. I know it is floating around now but I think the main drawback is the amount needed to see true gains. It is relatively inexpensive, but for the amount you need, it does add up $ wise. I read though the more used in studies the response was really amplifoed. I'd wait to see feedback from more people, reports should already be out there.
Emmortal:
Yea your post sparked some interest in me and I started doing some research on it. It does indeed add up money wise, but if you compare it to an equal amount of GH the price is still cheaper and legal. There's a guy on another board in his 40's that's been posting a lot of good info on it and his feedback from it seems pretty incredible. He's someone I'd trust to know what he's talking about and has done a ton of research on it. I'll dig up some of his posts and post them here, lots of good info.
Emmortal:
Posted by dabtrue on another board:
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GHRP-6, GHRP-2 and Hexarelin are all interchangeable. They are treated as interchangeable in the studies. They work via the same mode of action. Their slight differences are probably attributable to the different "batches" of non-pituitary neurons they excite. One peptide may excite one "batch" more or less than another.
Hexarelin is the strongest of the GHS peptides. It also induces higher amounts of cortisol & prolactin then the other peptides. It may (according to one comparison study) desensitize quicker. GHRP-2 is a little less strong with less impact on cortisol & prolactin. GHRP-6 has very little impact on cortisol & prolactin (although it is a little elevated above 1mcg/kg dosing) and is a little less stronger than GHRP-2.
So you could choose whichever is cheaper. I know GHRP-6 & GHRP-2 cost the same to make. However GHRP-6 at the moment at retail level is a lot cheaper...
There is no direct benefit to combining GHRPs because they all act through the same mode of action. You just choose one and run it from the saturation dose of 100mcg up to the maximally beneficial dose (which would be 300mcg - 400mcg) at each administration.
I know on the web you see old posts where people talk about the positive effect of combining Hex & GHRP-6. Thats just incorrect. What you do is make a decision on how much GHS you want to run and then choose among the GHS (GHRP-2, GHRP-6, Hexarelin, Ipamorelin). If you choose to use 300mcg you could use half (150mcg) of GHRP-2 and half GHRP-6 OR use Hexarelin , GHRP-2, GHRP-6 in equal thirds to fill that 300mcg dose slot.
However there is no synergy between these GHRPs and no advantage to dosing in total above 300 - 400mcg.
The GHRPs (GHRP-6, etc.) should ALWAYS be dosed at bed if you can (if you miss a dose no big deal). Depending on what study you read upto 85% of GH release in males occurs in that night-time (just after you fall asleep) pulse/spike. A dose of GHRP-6 of any amount will amplify that pulse which will give you more GH for the night. Looking at the study charts it appears that the pulse ends up being 2x to 6x higher than normal. Optimal dosage is 100mcg upto 300mcg - 400mcg. I've experimented with all doses and found 100mcg to be just fine BUT I do notice even deeper sleep at 200 & 300mcg dosing.
Keep in mind that glucose and fatty acids blunt (but don't eliminate) GHRPs induced GH release. The peak of the pulse occurs 30 minutes after dosing GHRPs so optimally take the dose on an empty stomach and wait 30 minutes before eating. This doesn't have to be exact...just the way to maxamize the pulse secretion. GHRPs can be analogized to a non-estered testosterone such as Test-suspension. You take it...you get the effect...then its gone.
CJC-1295 on the other hand is long-lasting. Most people are dosing it twice per week... That means no matter where you are or what you're doing throughout the week you have elevated levels of GH in your body. CJC-1295 can be analogized to a longer-estered testosterone such as enanthate.
Most are dosing it at 2mg per week split in two doses because that is what the CJC study in humans used (actually close to the mimimal dose of that study) and because these are bodybuilders tring to maxamize GH. But IF they used GHRP-6 a few times a day they could get an even higher amount of GH release or....
...if you are a 42 year old guy like me...and you understand that CJC-1295 = GHRH...and 100mcg of GHRH combined with 100-300mcg of GHRP-6 is hugely synergetic...and you are only trying to achieve a really good GH level then you experiment. It is now very well established throughout a body of research spanning more than a decade that includes more than thirty studies in humans that there is huge synergy in vivo between Growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH) (of which CJC-1295 is a long-lasting analog) and Growth hormone releasing peptides (GHRP-6, GHRP-2, Hexarelin, Ipamorelin).
I experimented with just one dose of 100mcg CJC-1295 before bed...plus my 3x per day GHRP-6 dosing. I did this daily which meant 700mcg was used per week. That became my standard dosing scheme.
However, for the last three weeks I have been on an anabolic cycle (test, t3, slin) and wanted high GH levels. So my dosing protocol has been 100mcg CJC-1295 3x per day and GHRP-6 (100mcg-200mcg) dosed with it 3 x per day. That equates to 2100mcg of CJC-1295. I am finding this to amount to a high level of GH & to be hugely synergistic w/ the test & slin.
So my base level of GH stays elevated, IGF-1 stays elevated and when I add the GHRP-6 I induce a two hour amplified pulse of GH release which is great for growth. My dosing creates a pulse in the morning, post-work out and pre-bed.
Emmortal:
This question was asked:
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How does PGH (tyric-6) fit in? Or would it fit in good at all?
Response:
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I'm in a position to answer the question because I started with just pGH for about three months. My sleep was awesome and after three months I KNEW that my growth hormone levels had a subtle bump up thanks to gaba/gabob. I just looked in the mirror and realized I felt a lot better. Someone once guesstimated that it gave a 1iu GH equivalent boost.
Then I ran GHRP-6 by itself for a couple of months and I felt that my body had a much larger bump in GH levels as a result...more along the lines of a 3iu GH equivalent. These numbers don't mean anything by-the-way I am just using them for a relative comparison. [3 to 1... 4 to 1]
I took a one week break from GHRP-6 and just used the pGH. I felt subjectively that it wasn't as effective.
Slow Wave Sleep & Growth Hormone Night-time release are positively correlated. If you increase Slow Wave Sleep you will increase GH. Conversely it has been shown that if your Slow Wave Sleep is interrupted as is the case with sleep apnea your GH night pulse is diminished. So with that in mind here is something I wrote a few months ago on Slow Wave Sleep, GH & pGH.
Slow Wave Sleep (SWS) enhancers
SWS & GH release
There are two types of sleep, rapid eye movement (REM) and non-rapid eye movement (NREM). Sleep proceeds in cycles composed of four types of stages of NREM and a stage of REM usually ordered as: 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 3 > 2 > REM
The cycle lasts on average 90 to 110 minutes, with a greater quantity of stages 3 and 4 experienced early in the night and more REM later in the night.
NREM accounts for 75–80% of total sleep time. Non-REM is comprised of four stages; stages 1 and 2 are considered 'light sleep', and 3 and 4 'deep sleep' or slow-wave sleep (SWS).
It has been shown that sleep, more specifically slow-wave sleep (SWS), does affect growth hormone levels in adult men. During eight hours sleep, it has been demonstrated in several studies that the men with a high percentage of SWS (average 24%) also had high growth hormone secretion, while subjects with a low percentage of SWS (average 9%) had low growth hormone secretion.
In one very complete study referenced by several others, it was demonstrated that “GH secretory rates and peripheral GH concentrations were maximally correlated with sleep stage, with lags of 4.5 and 16 min, respectively, suggesting that maximal GH release occurs within minutes of the onset of stage 3 or 4 sleep”.
Furthermore “sleep-related augmentation of GH secretion… usually occurs around midnight and the GH levels at that time are, as a rule, at their highest during the 24-hour period. Partially, this phenomenon is time-entrained and partially related to sleep itself. It is associated with a slow wave sleep, and the maximal GH levels occur within minutes of the onset of slow wave sleep” - Holl RW, Hartman ML, Veldhuis JD, et al. Thirty-second sampling of plasma growth hormone in man: correlation with sleep stages. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1991;72:854–61.
The origin of nocturnal GH release in humans is still unknown. Most likely hypothalamic GHRH release is a major contributing component, but an additional role of another factor, presumably augmenting GHRH responsiveness of the somatotrophs, is likely. However the precise explanatory mechanisms are still not fully identified.
It is worth reiterating though that nocturnal release of GH makes up only a fraction of the total daily GH release in women, but the bulk of GH output in men.
Gaba & its derivatives
Gamma-amino butyric acid (GABA) is an amino acid and the chief inhibitory neurotransmitter in the central nervous system and the retinas of humans, which regulates muscle tone and other functions. It is also chiefly an excitatory neurotransmitter in most species.
GABA taken orally has been purported to increase the amount of the Human Growth Hormone. One such study demonstrated that gram amounts “induced clear-cut GH increments in plasma with a peak after 60–90 minutes”. The results of those studies have been seldom replicated, and have recently been in question since it is unknown whether GABA can pass the blood-brain barrier. However GABA when taken in injected form has been shown to both pass the blood-brain barrier and have a pronounced GH secretory effect.
At various times & in various studies GABA has been found to both inhibit GH release and exacerbate it. This contradiction is explained as… “inhibition of the GH release stimulated by GABA and its ability to raise baseline GH share the same basic mechanism, i.e., an action through dopaminergic (DA) neurons. Continuous stimulation of central nervous system (CNS-DA) receptors by GABA mimetics through DA release would ultimately lead to a state of partial refractoriness to DA-mediated events…”
The key then appears to be the avoidance of continuous stimulation of the central nervous system.
Two derivatives of GABA, gamma-amino-beta-hydroxy butyric acid (GABOB) and gamma- hydroxy butyric acid (GHB) have been shown to increase GH secretion as well.
PGH (aka Tyric-6)
PGH (Tyric-6) is a gaba-derivative injectable growth hormone stimulant that simply contains:
GABA - a neurotransmitter with a stabilizing role in the brain that has a calming effect. GABA also under certain circumstances increases levels of human growth hormone; and
GABOB - This has been used in the treatment of epilepsy, but it is a legal molecule that is very similar to GHB (a now illegal molecule) without GHBs negative effects; and
Magnesium amino-bromohydrate - An essential mineral which enhances the effect of GABA & GABOB.
The key to understanding why pGH (Tyric-6) is an effective GH releaser is recognizing that GHB (and presumably GABOB as well as GABA in certain circumstances) enhances both slow wave sleep and GH release. - Van Cauter E, Plat L, Scharf MB, et al. Simultaneous stimulation of slow-wave sleep and growth hormone secretion by gamma-hydroxybutyrate in normal young men. J Clin Invest 1997;100:745–53.
While GHB is illegal and not a component of PGH, its similarly structured brother GABOB has been shown to enhance slow wave sleep as well as increase GH. “Significant increases of prolactin and GH plasma levels were observed after injection with 100 mg GABOB”. - Gamma-amino-beta-hydroxy butyric acid stimulates prolactin and growth hormone release in normal women, P Fioretti,… Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Vol 47, 1336-1340
In another study an intrathecal injection of 300 mg of L-GABOB to cerebrovascular patients caused significant increases in plasma GH, prolactin and cortisol levels at 60 min after injection. These results indicate that GABOB may elicit the secretion of GH, prolactin and ACTH via the central nervous system. - Stimulatory Effects of Gamma-Aminohydroxybutyric Acid (GABOB) on Growth Hormone, Prolactin and Cortisol Release in Man, J. Takahara…
Although the data is sparse and GABA studies as they relate to GH release no longer occur it appears that injectable forms of GABA & its derivatives enhance SWS (slow wave sleep) which is the time period GH is secreted. Since the majority of GH release is secreted in the first early round of SWS it seems that administration of PGH (GABA & GABOB) by injection just prior to sleep will enhance restful sleep and increase the GH secretory pulse.
Over the last few years anectdotal feedback from users including myself report both of these occurances. A protocol involving taking periodic breaks from use appears to be sufficient to promote continued effectiveness.
PGH is a simple, safe and effective compound whose ingredients may be purchased easily over the counter. GABA is sold in most supplement stores, while GABOB is harder to source but is available with international sourcing likely being less expensive.
Of course pGH is available from a research chemical facility and if purchased already assembled need only be reconstituted in Bacteriastatic Water prior to use.
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