Author Topic: War for Oil?  (Read 9846 times)

Hereford

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2008, 06:51:15 PM »
I admire your honesty on taking the oil.  Bush himself admitted it 19 months ago.


Somebody will take it, the arabs can't handle it themselves.

Why not us?

Dos Equis

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2008, 06:59:20 PM »
starting about 50 seconds in:  This is before the second plan was discovered by Palast.


Once I got past the guy with the detective hat, the whispering voice, and the sinister music by "Moby," I came away with this:  "indications" are Cheney may have had meetings with oil executives months before the war to review maps of Iraqi oil.  That was the closest thing to a conspiracy in the clip. 

Lots of accusations.  Where's the beef? 

Also, the government doesn't own Iraqi oil and I have yet to see evidence that the U.S. government owns Iraqi oil. 

Same for American oil companies.  They don't own Iraqi oil.  Any proof to the contrary? 

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2008, 07:00:42 PM »
Somebody will take it, the arabs can't handle it themselves.

Why not us?

Some say they have the right to SELL it to China, Russia, S. America, Europe and India.

in Euro $.

For more profit.



Bush and Cheney felt it'd be better if it was managed by US firms, sold in dollars, and priced as our oil managers in the firms running it determine.  It works great for us in the long run - but does kinda flush traditional morals down the toilet.

Dos Equis

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2008, 07:01:02 PM »
There are at least $50 trillion dollars worth of oil under Iraq.

Nations have been invading other nations for centuries for their resources.

We're the #1 nation in the world - the only superpower.

We achieved this status by exploiting others, and war.



You're not a dumb guy, Beach Bum.  Why would you believe that every other country in the world does this - but we do not?



I'm asking for proof of this secret--and unsuccessful--plan to steal Iraq's oil.  It is good CT discussion, but short on facts.  

Dos Equis

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2008, 07:02:01 PM »
I admire your honesty on taking the oil.  Bush himself admitted it 19 months ago.


Link?  Where is the quote of Bush admitting that we were "taking the oil"? 

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2008, 07:04:19 PM »
"indications" are Cheney may have had meetings with oil executives months before the war to review maps of Iraqi oil.  That was the closest thing to a conspiracy in the clip. 

Lots of accusations.  Where's the beef? 

FOIA documents reveal:


In the Summer of 2003 a partial disclosure of these materials was made by the Commerce Department. This resulted in the release of documents, maps, and charts, dated March 2001, of Iraq's, Saudi Arabia's and United Arab Emirates' oil fields, pipelines, refineries, tanker terminals and development projects.

On April 4, 2001, representatives of 13 environmental groups, including Erich Pica of Friends of the Earth and Anna Aurilio of the U.S. Public Interest Group, met with the Task Force (although not with Vice President Cheney personally).

The Washington Post reported on November 15, 2005 that it had obtained documents detailing how executives from major oil corporations, including Exxon-Mobil Corp., Conoco, Royal Dutch Shell Oil Corp., and the American subsidiary of British Petroleum met with Energy Task Force participants while they were developing national energy policy. Vice President Cheney was reported to have met personally with the Chief Executive Officer of BP (formerly British Petroleum) during the time of the Energy Task Force's activities. In the week prior to this article revealing oil executive involvement, the Chief Executives of Exxon-Mobil and ConocoPhillips told members of the US Senate that they had not participated as part of the Energy Task Force, while the CEO of British Petroleum stated that he did not know.

On July 18, 2007, the Washington Post reported the names of those involved in the Task Force, including at least 40 meetings with interest groups, most of them from energy-producing industries. Among those in the meetings were James J. Rouse, then vice president of Exxon Mobil and a major donor to the Bush inauguration; Kenneth L. Lay, then head of Enron Corp.; Jack N. Gerard, then with the National Mining Association; Red Cavaney, president of the American Petroleum Institute; and Eli Bebout, an old friend of Cheney's from Wyoming who serves in the state Senate and owns an oil and drilling company.[3]

Dos Equis

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2008, 07:10:48 PM »
FOIA documents reveal:


In the Summer of 2003 a partial disclosure of these materials was made by the Commerce Department. This resulted in the release of documents, maps, and charts, dated March 2001, of Iraq's, Saudi Arabia's and United Arab Emirates' oil fields, pipelines, refineries, tanker terminals and development projects.

On April 4, 2001, representatives of 13 environmental groups, including Erich Pica of Friends of the Earth and Anna Aurilio of the U.S. Public Interest Group, met with the Task Force (although not with Vice President Cheney personally).

The Washington Post reported on November 15, 2005 that it had obtained documents detailing how executives from major oil corporations, including Exxon-Mobil Corp., Conoco, Royal Dutch Shell Oil Corp., and the American subsidiary of British Petroleum met with Energy Task Force participants while they were developing national energy policy. Vice President Cheney was reported to have met personally with the Chief Executive Officer of BP (formerly British Petroleum) during the time of the Energy Task Force's activities. In the week prior to this article revealing oil executive involvement, the Chief Executives of Exxon-Mobil and ConocoPhillips told members of the US Senate that they had not participated as part of the Energy Task Force, while the CEO of British Petroleum stated that he did not know.

On July 18, 2007, the Washington Post reported the names of those involved in the Task Force, including at least 40 meetings with interest groups, most of them from energy-producing industries. Among those in the meetings were James J. Rouse, then vice president of Exxon Mobil and a major donor to the Bush inauguration; Kenneth L. Lay, then head of Enron Corp.; Jack N. Gerard, then with the National Mining Association; Red Cavaney, president of the American Petroleum Institute; and Eli Bebout, an old friend of Cheney's from Wyoming who serves in the state Senate and owns an oil and drilling company.[3]


O.K.  They had maps of oil fields dated March 2001.  So what.  This is proof of a plan to start a war to steal oil?     

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2008, 07:12:26 PM »
O.K.  They had maps of oil fields dated March 2001.  So what.  This is proof of a plan to start a war to steal oil?    

I don't get you.  What is it about obvious conquest for resources by the USA that you cannot accept?

let's try this... do you believe the USA has ever - from 1800 to present - started a war for resources?

yes or no?

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2008, 07:18:38 PM »
I don't get you.  What is it about obvious conquest for resources by the USA that you cannot accept?

let's try this... do you believe the USA has ever - from 1800 to present - started a war for resources?

yes or no?

Oh please.  I started this thread to find out what people believe is the evidence of two things:

1.  That we started the Iraq war to steal Iraq's oil.

2.  That we actually did steal Iraq's oil. 

Don't start throwing out made-up facts (Bush admitted we went to war for oil) or asking be red herring questions.  Give me facts. 

So far, we have the following:

1.  A "secret meeting."
2.  Maps of Iraqi oil dated March 2001.
3.  "Indications" that Cheney met with oil execs before the war. 

What else?   

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2008, 07:24:31 PM »
Oh please. 

I don't know why it would be so hard for you to admit.  It's not a red herring.  if you have a fundamental belief that our nation has never, or would never, invade a soverign nation for their resources... no amount of evidence will ever convince you.

I'll ask again - as an answer from you in the negative would mean you aren't open to evidence.

Do you believe the USA has ever - from 1800 to present - started a war for resources?

yes or no?

Hugo Chavez

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2008, 08:02:28 PM »
I'm going to fwd to that point.
quick question, have you posted this before. I had deja vu when I opened the link

we need better emoticons already.
yup, I've probably posted it half a dozen times but you know how it goes, lucky if 1 person watches, so when the topic pops up, post again and hope.  BB actually promised me way back he would watch it.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2008, 08:03:20 PM »
Why do we have to have a secret plan?

Go in there and take that shit. We can build the festering shithold country back up to better than it ever has been. Hell, there are parts of Texas and California that are in worse shape than Baghdad.

They should be happy it's the US and not Russia coming down on them.

Ungrateful goat-lovers...


you're sure playing for the extreme huh?

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2008, 08:05:30 PM »
Once I got past the guy with the detective hat, the whispering voice, and the sinister music by "Moby," I came away with this:  "indications" are Cheney may have had meetings with oil executives months before the war to review maps of Iraqi oil.  That was the closest thing to a conspiracy in the clip. 

Lots of accusations.  Where's the beef? 

Also, the government doesn't own Iraqi oil and I have yet to see evidence that the U.S. government owns Iraqi oil. 

Same for American oil companies.  They don't own Iraqi oil.  Any proof to the contrary? 

What?  It's not about the US gov owning Iraqi oil... never was...  You just did a 180 from what I showed you.

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2008, 08:06:47 PM »
Here's one of the best presentations by greg and really clears up some popular misconceptions on the war for oil.  Go to 27:30 of the video, where he starts talking about oil.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6802228062297352475&hl=en
bb, just watch this from 27:30 on.  PLEASE :)  This is not about government ownership of Iraqi oil.

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2008, 08:16:34 PM »
What?  It's not about the US gov owning Iraqi oil... never was...  You just did a 180 from what I showed you.

What was it about then? 

Actually, I'm really just trying to understand how people support the war for oil contention. 

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2008, 08:30:47 PM »
bb, just watch this from 27:30 on.  PLEASE :)  This is not about government ownership of Iraqi oil.

I've listened to this before.  I did listen (again) to ten minutes from 27 to 37.  This isn't news.  There were plans on how to deal with Iraqi oil in the event we went to war, removed their leadership, and decimated their infrastructure.  This isn't a plan to steal oil, give the U.S. control of oil, or allow the U.S. to profit from oil. 

 

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2008, 08:35:26 PM »

Do you believe the USA has ever - from 1800 to present - started a war for resources?

yes or no?

Dos Equis

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2008, 08:38:27 PM »
 ::)

Hugo Chavez

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2008, 08:45:54 PM »
I've listened to this before.  I did listen (again) to ten minutes from 27 to 37.  This isn't news.  There were plans on how to deal with Iraqi oil in the event we went to war, removed their leadership, and decimated their infrastructure.  This isn't a plan to steal oil, give the U.S. control of oil, or allow the U.S. to profit from oil. 

 
YOU'RE NOT LISTENING... IT'S NOT ABOUT US GOV CONTROL OF THE OIL.  It's about the control of the limit of oil for Big Oil, not the US Gov, I don't know why you keep saying that... Look, James Baker III's lawfirm representing Big Oil is on record opposing the privatization of Iraqi Oil, they shot down that plan.  Greg explains why they shot down that plan if you listen.  It's about the control of the flow of oil for profit for Big Oil.  I know, it's so easy to just say we have a plan for everything before just incase it happens,,, good god wake the fuck up...  They did not get into office and in 2001 immediately draw up plans for Iraqi oil just in case ::)  Quick fucking priority don't you think??? duh...

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #44 on: August 26, 2008, 08:52:59 PM »
::)
It's good you eye rolled at that instead of answering...  But now that we're here, please do answer that ;)

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2008, 08:53:32 PM »
YOU'RE NOT LISTENING... IT'S NOT ABOUT US GOV CONTROL OF THE OIL.  It's about the control of the limit of oil for Big Oil, not the US Gov, I don't know why you keep saying that... Look, James Baker III's lawfirm representing Big Oil is on record opposing the privatization of Iraqi Oil, they shot down that plan.  Greg explains why they shot down that plan if you listen.  It's about the control of the flow of oil for profit for Big Oil.  I know, it's so easy to just say we have a plan for everything before just incase it happens,,, good god wake the fuck up...  They did not get into office and in 2001 immediately draw up plans for Iraqi oil just in case ::)  Quick fucking priority don't you think??? duh...

People who have a different opinion don't need to wake up.  They simply have a different opinion.  

In any event, what do you mean by "control of the limit of oil for Big Oil"?
 

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #46 on: August 26, 2008, 08:53:56 PM »
It's good you eye rolled at that instead of answering...  But now that we're here, please do answer that ;)

No.   :)

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #47 on: August 26, 2008, 08:56:03 PM »
Do you believe the USA has ever - from 1800 to present - started a war for resources?

yes or no?

that's a fracking good question... inquisitive minds want to know :)

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #48 on: August 26, 2008, 08:56:38 PM »
No.   :)
Would you like or dislike being proven wrong :)

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #49 on: August 26, 2008, 08:58:06 PM »
Would you like or dislike being proven wrong :)

Haven't thought about that.  I try and avoid answering dumb questions, particularly if they have nothing to do with the point being discussed.