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Author Topic: MSNBC documentary - Hooked Muscle Women  (Read 13817 times)
dantelis
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« on: August 14, 2008, 09:38:18 AM »

Thought some might be interested in this documentary on MSNBC that aired Sunday and yesterday.  It repeats Friday and again on Aug. 30th.  I haven't seen it so can't tell you if it is any good.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036750/
Hooked: Muscle women
“Hooked: Muscle women,” puts female bodybuilders on the psychiatrist's couch (figuratively speaking) to get to the core of why they push their bodies to the limit. Tune in Wednesday, August 13 at 12:00 a.m. ET/PT, Friday, Aug. 15 at 9 p.m. ET, and Saturday, Aug. 30 at 8 p.m. ET and 11 p.m. ET.
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ripitupbaby
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« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2008, 07:16:43 AM »

Thanks for posting this.  I wanted to catch this earlier in the week but I missed it.  I'm gonna try to remember to record it tonight or tomorrow.  I think that Kristy Hawkins is prominently featured in it, which should make it very interesting!

 Smiley
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« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2008, 07:30:52 PM »

I DVR'ed it. It was a good show. They still need to bring down the size of the NPC/IFBB girls to bring in the sponors and get the crowd's of people to watch. 
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« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2008, 03:57:10 AM »

I DVR'ed it. It was a good show. They still need to bring down the size of the NPC/IFBB girls to bring in the sponors and get the crowd's of people to watch. 

What a shame "bring down the size"  Undecided  Seems to me its bodybuilding and its about big muscles male or female.  Just seems strange to me there is some perceived way a women should look, who came up with this ideal?

Putting limits on FBB and telling them how they should look destroys the whole essence of BB.  The different looks is what makes it good and interesting. If they all looked like a bunch of Barbie dolls it would not be BB, thats what figure is for.
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« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2008, 08:24:45 AM »

What a shame "bring down the size"  Undecided  Seems to me its bodybuilding and its about big muscles male or female.  Just seems strange to me there is some perceived way a women should look, who came up with this ideal?

Putting limits on FBB and telling them how they should look destroys the whole essence of BB.  The different looks is what makes it good and interesting. If they all looked like a bunch of Barbie dolls it would not be BB, thats what figure is for.



I agree to an extent...although I fully support taking FBB in a more "feminine" direction, in terms of encouraging an overall package that looks more streamlined and aesthetically pleasing for a female. I think that bigger Pros like Kristy Hawkins and Annie Rivveccio are good representatives of this "look." 

And having said that, I still haven't seen the documentary... I just know that Kristy is featured in it.   Cool
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dantelis
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« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2008, 09:16:31 AM »

What a shame "bring down the size"  Undecided  Seems to me its bodybuilding and its about big muscles male or female.  Just seems strange to me there is some perceived way a women should look, who came up with this ideal?

Putting limits on FBB and telling them how they should look destroys the whole essence of BB.  The different looks is what makes it good and interesting. If they all looked like a bunch of Barbie dolls it would not be BB, thats what figure is for.

L2H, Genetically, women can only develop muscles to a certain level.  It is only through steroids, HGH and other chemicals that women have been able to reach the freaky size they have.  (Ditto for the men.  That is a discussion for another thread.)  There has to be some limit put on the size of the women to make it something more than a freak show.  When the women look like they could be men in disguise (with the other trappings of maleness:  deep voice, excess body and facial hair, no breasts or hips, penori, etc.), they've gone too far.
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Luv2Hurt
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« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2008, 10:27:02 AM »

L2H, Genetically, women can only develop muscles to a certain level.  It is only through steroids, HGH and other chemicals that women have been able to reach the freaky size they have.  (Ditto for the men.  That is a discussion for another thread.)  There has to be some limit put on the size of the women to make it something more than a freak show.  When the women look like they could be men in disguise (with the other trappings of maleness:  deep voice, excess body and facial hair, no breasts or hips, penori, etc.), they've gone too far.

Sorry but in reality it is a freak show for both sexes, why the double standard for women?
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dantelis
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« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2008, 11:42:26 AM »

Sorry but in reality it is a freak show for both sexes, why the double standard for women?

I am not saying that the men don't need to also tone down their physiques.  The pros could never reach that point without the drugs and need to get back to a more naturally attainable physique.

If you haven't noticed, women are women, not men.  The female bodybuilders would never get as big as they are and as manly as they are without drugs.  If the women continue on their trajectory with size and muscularity comparable to men, women's bodybuilding as a "sport"/contest will die.  It already is dying.  How many people attend the women's professional bodybuilding shows?  And why do you think that there are only 5 women's bodybuilding pro shows this year, compared to 13 for women's figure?  The figure women are more like the women bodybuilders of the 80's, which were much more popular than women's bodybuilding today. 

If women are going to continue to reach for the freakish, huge muscularity look, I say, go all the way and just let them perform in speedo bottoms and compete with the men.  (Without the fake boobs, they look pretty much like men anyway.)
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Luv2Hurt
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« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2008, 02:00:38 PM »

I am not saying that the men don't need to also tone down their physiques.  The pros could never reach that point without the drugs and need to get back to a more naturally attainable physique.

If you haven't noticed, women are women, not men.  The female bodybuilders would never get as big as they are and as manly as they are without drugs.  If the women continue on their trajectory with size and muscularity comparable to men, women's bodybuilding as a "sport"/contest will die.  It already is dying.  How many people attend the women's professional bodybuilding shows?  And why do you think that there are only 5 women's bodybuilding pro shows this year, compared to 13 for women's figure?  The figure women are more like the women bodybuilders of the 80's, which were much more popular than women's bodybuilding today. 

If women are going to continue to reach for the freakish, huge muscularity look, I say, go all the way and just let them perform in speedo bottoms and compete with the men.  (Without the fake boobs, they look pretty much like men anyway.)

Well hold everything "dantelis" is letting us know how it should be.  Im sure the rest of the world is waiting to hear your opinion on abortion and religion now too, please tell us  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2008, 10:08:02 PM »

I don't consider it a double standard.  I believe women should take their physiques to the extreme and push the boundaries but without the aid of steroids, growth hormones, or diuretics.  I'm not a fan of the drug use/abuse in the men's fields either, but being a woman, I have a much stronger opinion regarding the women.  I especially despise seeing very young women (i.e., 18 to 25) being coaxed onto the path of steroids by trainers, boyfriends, judges, or whoever else persuades them improperly.

I say push the envelope.  But do it in a legal and ethical way.  And do it in a way that makes other women want to join the "sport" as well, whether as a member of the audience or a competitor on the stage.

It can be done.
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« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2008, 01:20:18 PM »

I don't consider it a double standard.  I believe women should take their physiques to the extreme and push the boundaries but without the aid of steroids, growth hormones, or diuretics.  I'm not a fan of the drug use/abuse in the men's fields either, but being a woman, I have a much stronger opinion regarding the women.  I especially despise seeing very young women (i.e., 18 to 25) being coaxed onto the path of steroids by trainers, boyfriends, judges, or whoever else persuades them improperly.

I say push the envelope.  But do it in a legal and ethical way.  And do it in a way that makes other women want to join the "sport" as well, whether as a member of the audience or a competitor on the stage.

It can be done.

Well the double standard is that it is deemed OK for the men to take tons of stuff and become inhumanly huge and freaky, but it is not right for girls to get freaky big for a girl.  Because some people don't like that for girls, they should look a certain way.  Yeah, yeah mens hormones for girls is perceived as wrong by many but thats what makes muscles grow bigger than normal for a woman.  Is it OK if they are not normal like everyone else if they want?  Or do they need to follow some standard created by the opposite sex?

Funny part to me is BB is about expression of what you think it should be and yet people are trying to say how they should look and what is "right"  I say do what you like with it, if it looks good then you will be rewarded.  But to try and control it seems silly to me its about freedom of expression.
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dantelis
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« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2008, 01:58:15 PM »

Well hold everything "dantelis" is letting us know how it should be.  Im sure the rest of the world is waiting to hear your opinion on abortion and religion now too, please tell us  Roll Eyes

It is called an opinion.  Everyone has one and is entitled to one, even you.  I am just opening up discussion on an issue.  Doesn't mean that that is the way it should or will ever be.

BTW, Here is one argument against women doing too many steroids:  Athlete says sports steroids changed him from woman to man http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/11/sexchange.athlete/index.html.
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dantelis
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« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2008, 02:02:13 PM »

I don't consider it a double standard.  I believe women should take their physiques to the extreme and push the boundaries but without the aid of steroids, growth hormones, or diuretics.  I'm not a fan of the drug use/abuse in the men's fields either, but being a woman, I have a much stronger opinion regarding the women.  I especially despise seeing very young women (i.e., 18 to 25) being coaxed onto the path of steroids by trainers, boyfriends, judges, or whoever else persuades them improperly.

I say push the envelope.  But do it in a legal and ethical way.  And do it in a way that makes other women want to join the "sport" as well, whether as a member of the audience or a competitor on the stage.

It can be done.

You are a good example Jodi.  Based on your pics, you look to have muscularity without going too far.  http://www.jodileigh.com/gallery.htm  You even appear to have kept some breast tissue and haven't had to get bolt-ons to prove you are woman.
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dantelis
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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2008, 02:14:36 PM »


Funny part to me is BB is about expression of what you think it should be and yet people are trying to say how they should look and what is "right"  I say do what you like with it, if it looks good then you will be rewarded.  But to try and control it seems silly to me its about freedom of expression.

Problem is, it doesn't look good and the judges have been rewarding it anyway.

RE: "freedom of expression,"  I never suggested that anyone take away a woman's right to take as much and as many steroids and chemicals as she wants to to build up her body or to inhibit their freedom of expression by taking away that individual right.  I just don't think that it is a good idea for professional and amateur bodybuilding federations to reward that ultra-masculine look on female bodybuilders and that setting some standard levels of "femininity" is a good thing.
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« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2008, 05:07:47 PM »

Hey Jodi. I Agree with you. However, If a Woman Bodybuilder wants to take drugs to make her body look a particular way, let her. She better accept last place and understand why. Remember, it's a judged event, subjected to someones idea of perfection. Therefore, I think the I.F.B.B. is going in the right direction. Reward a Natural, Womanly, Muscular body. With or without Drugs, I like my Woman bodybuilders Hot, Sexy, and Muscular. P.S. have to look like a woman!!!!
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« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2008, 05:27:38 PM »

getting back on topic, so, is the thing youtubed or something so I can see it
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« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2008, 10:47:27 AM »

I saw this last night. Really wasn’t anything that spectacular IMO. They talked a lot about psychological stuff that most of us probably knew already (at least I did).

As for the drug comments in this thread… I find it ironic that people get so upset about fbb’s who get too big/masculine because of drug use when we all know what it takes to compete in the IFBB. It’s not as if the big masculine looking fbb’s are the ONLY ones using. Everyone at that level is using something. Even the figure girls are using drugs to attain their physiques. I think some people are a bit naïve to the reality of professional bodybuilding.
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dantelis
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« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2008, 01:12:00 PM »

I saw this last night. Really wasn’t anything that spectacular IMO. They talked a lot about psychological stuff that most of us probably knew already (at least I did).

As for the drug comments in this thread… I find it ironic that people get so upset about fbb’s who get too big/masculine because of drug use when we all know what it takes to compete in the IFBB. It’s not as if the big masculine looking fbb’s are the ONLY ones using. Everyone at that level is using something. Even the figure girls are using drugs to attain their physiques. I think some people are a bit naïve to the reality of professional bodybuilding.



We all know that the pro's (male, female, bodybuilder, fitness & figure) are taking some sort of drugs and even if the IFBB and other BB federations ban and test for them, there will still be steroids and other drugs.  Luv2Hurt's original statement was, "Putting limits on FBB and telling them how they should look destroys the whole essence of BB.  The different looks is what makes it good and interesting. If they all looked like a bunch of Barbie dolls it would not be BB, thats what figure is for."  If you don't set some standards, then what were women at one time look like men.  If female bodybuilders want to use massive amounts of drugs to get totally jacked and huge, that is their call.  Just don't think that the IFBB and other BB federations should reward that look, since it encourages the women to look like men and take on those manly side-effects (deep voice, facial hair, penori, etc).  It is pushing these women beyond where nature intended. 

Luv2Hurt says that telling FBB's how to look destroys the essence of bodybuilding, but BB federations have been telling bodybuilders, male and female, how to look since BB contests took off in the early 20th century.

Remember, it is 'female bodybuilding,' not just bodybuilding.  If the women want to get as big as the men through drugs, let's just drop the gender aspect and have an open bodybuilding category where men and women compete together.
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« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2008, 01:27:01 PM »

I STILL haven't seen this damn show yet.  I need to get on the television and see when it's on.  I don't think I have turned on the television in like 3 weeks other than to watch a little bit of news.   Roll Eyes

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« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2008, 03:17:27 PM »

yeah I wanna see this thing, someone post the show somewhere?
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