Author Topic: Phenomenal Speech  (Read 4698 times)

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2008, 06:31:04 PM »
I loved Palin's speech.  One of my kids agrees with you though.

Kerry a war hero?  lol . . . .  I don't think so.  http://www.stolenhonor.com/  Kerry doesn't deserve to be in the same room with McCain when it comes to military service.  If I wasn't such a nice I guy I would punch Kerry in the mouth for what he did to our men in combat, including our POWs.

Democrat platform in a few words:  redistribution of wealth, socialism, moral relativism or skepticism, and nothing new as Obama admitted.  The Democrat party is pretty much dead (from an intellectual standpoint).  Says a lot about the condition of the party when someone like Obama is now the leader.   


Yea, it says alot about the condition of the dems  ::)

why even be a moderator dude? wheres the fucking rationality?

A black man with minimal at best experience is about to be president while destroying fundraising records......yep them damn' dems be going down the drain ::). Perhaps it has more to do with the state of the fucking union  ???

oh yea...congress approval is @ 8 %...if you havn't noticed.

Decker

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2008, 07:04:13 PM »
I loved Palin's speech.  One of my kids agrees with you though.

Kerry a war hero?  lol . . . .  I don't think so.  http://www.stolenhonor.com/  Kerry doesn't deserve to be in the same room with McCain when it comes to military service.  If I wasn't such a nice I guy I would punch Kerry in the mouth for what he did to our men in combat, including our POWs.

Democrat platform in a few words:  redistribution of wealth, socialism, moral relativism or skepticism, and nothing new as Obama admitted.  The Democrat party is pretty much dead (from an intellectual standpoint).  Says a lot about the condition of the party when someone like Obama is now the leader.   

StolenHonor is crap.  The SwiftBoaters were already debunked.

Again BB, it is Democratic Party.  There is no democrat party---that's propaganda.

And I don't hear you complaining about the redistribution of wealth when it flows 'up' to the financial elites....you only complain when the poor are given a a hand up.

Socialism--please point out one single aspect of Obama's platform that is socialist.

Thank god the democrat (sic) party is not running for president and Obama is--he has some big ideas.

He's not my first choice but anything is better than a Bush 3rd term.

Dos Equis

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #52 on: September 07, 2008, 01:45:40 PM »
Yea, it says alot about the condition of the dems  ::)

why even be a moderator dude? wheres the fucking rationality?

A black man with minimal at best experience is about to be president while destroying fundraising records......yep them damn' dems be going down the drain ::). Perhaps it has more to do with the state of the fucking union  ???

oh yea...congress approval is @ 8 %...if you havn't noticed.


 ::)

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #53 on: September 07, 2008, 01:50:38 PM »
StolenHonor is crap.  The SwiftBoaters were already debunked.

Again BB, it is Democratic Party.  There is no democrat party---that's propaganda.

And I don't hear you complaining about the redistribution of wealth when it flows 'up' to the financial elites....you only complain when the poor are given a a hand up.

Socialism--please point out one single aspect of Obama's platform that is socialist.

Thank god the democrat (sic) party is not running for president and Obama is--he has some big ideas.

He's not my first choice but anything is better than a Bush 3rd term.

You can keep correcting me, but I'll keep calling them the Democrat party.   :)  I know the difference. 

The Democrat party doesn't give "poor people" a hand up.  They actually punish "poor people."  Obama, for example, wants to increase the costs of doing business.  When that happens, businesses, like Safeway, simply pass those increased costs along to their customers.  Or do "poor people" not buy food?   

Obama's attempt to socialize the healthcare system = socialism. 

Doesn't sound like you're crazy about Obama either.  Why?   

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #54 on: September 07, 2008, 05:22:35 PM »
I loved Palin's speech.  One of my kids agrees with you though.

Kerry a war hero?  lol . . . .  I don't think so.  http://www.stolenhonor.com/  Kerry doesn't deserve to be in the same room with McCain when it comes to military service.  If I wasn't such a nice I guy I would punch Kerry in the mouth for what he did to our men in combat, including our POWs.

Democrat platform in a few words:  redistribution of wealth, socialism, moral relativism or skepticism, and nothing new as Obama admitted.  The Democrat party is pretty much dead (from an intellectual standpoint).  Says a lot about the condition of the party when someone like Obama is now the leader.   

Bump for truth

Decker

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2008, 06:56:57 AM »
You can keep correcting me, but I'll keep calling them the Democrat party.   :)  I know the difference. 

The Democrat party doesn't give "poor people" a hand up.  They actually punish "poor people."  Obama, for example, wants to increase the costs of doing business.  When that happens, businesses, like Safeway, simply pass those increased costs along to their customers.  Or do "poor people" not buy food?   

Obama's attempt to socialize the healthcare system = socialism. 

Doesn't sound like you're crazy about Obama either.  Why?   
So you are a willing tool of propaganda.  Someone else tells you a funny way to insult democrats and you run with it like it's revealed truth.  I expect better from a guy as smart as you are.

How does the democratic party punish poor people?  How does Obama want to increase the costs of doing business?

How on earth could Obama's healthcare plan = socialsim?  He's working with private companies.  Do the people own those insurance companies?  No.

So I'll ask you again, name one plank in Obama's platform that is Socialism.  If you can't, then I suggest you retract your statements.

Obama is trying to be too much to too many people and his policies are suffering.  His healthcare plan is not one I'd choose.  Edwards's was much better.  Clinton's was much better.

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2008, 11:18:15 AM »
So you are a willing tool of propaganda.  Someone else tells you a funny way to insult democrats and you run with it like it's revealed truth.  I expect better from a guy as smart as you are.

How does the democratic party punish poor people?  How does Obama want to increase the costs of doing business?

How on earth could Obama's healthcare plan = socialsim?  He's working with private companies.  Do the people own those insurance companies?  No.

So I'll ask you again, name one plank in Obama's platform that is Socialism.  If you can't, then I suggest you retract your statements.

Obama is trying to be too much to too many people and his policies are suffering.  His healthcare plan is not one I'd choose.  Edwards's was much better.  Clinton's was much better.

Call it whatever you like.  I admit I did not coin the term "Democrat" as opposed to "Democratic."  Doesn't bother me in the least to use this term.  If it bothers you then you have too much invested in your party. 

Obama's healthcare plan is socialism because the government is going to takeover the healthcare system.  He may be "working with private companies," but those private companies will be under the government's thumb.  It will not be a free enterprise system.  He also plans to pay for socialized healthcare by raising taxes.   

Are those the only reasons you're not crazy about Obama? 

Decker

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #57 on: September 09, 2008, 09:49:41 AM »
Call it whatever you like.  I admit I did not coin the term "Democrat" as opposed to "Democratic."  Doesn't bother me in the least to use this term.  If it bothers you then you have too much invested in your party. 

Obama's healthcare plan is socialism because the government is going to takeover the healthcare system.  He may be "working with private companies," but those private companies will be under the government's thumb.  It will not be a free enterprise system.  He also plans to pay for socialized healthcare by raising taxes.   

Are those the only reasons you're not crazy about Obama? 
A socialist healthcare system would wrest insurance company ownership from private hands.  Obama's HC plan doesn't do that.  http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

The private companies still have to compete for business.  It is as much a free enterprise system as any other we have in this country.

Government involvement in business is not de facto socialism.

Now, is there any plank in the Obama platform that can be characterized as socialism?

calmus

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #58 on: September 09, 2008, 09:52:20 AM »

Jesus Christ. This entire thread isn't worth the bandwidth it's printed on.  Not even vaguely amusing... although, undoubtedly, the participants feel quite enlightened/enlightening.

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #59 on: September 09, 2008, 09:56:05 AM »
Jesus Christ. This entire thread isn't worth the bandwidth it's printed on.  Not even vaguely amusing... although, undoubtedly, the participants feel quite enlightened/enlightening.
I know I'm feeling pretty good today.

calmus

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #60 on: September 09, 2008, 09:57:27 AM »
I know I'm feeling pretty good today.

Good. it's all about the pursuit of happyness. 

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #61 on: September 09, 2008, 10:00:11 AM »

Is there anybody in the world who wants to be an old white man more than the great Colossus500? I guess we all have our (not so) secret longings. 

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #62 on: September 09, 2008, 11:11:59 AM »
A socialist healthcare system would wrest insurance company ownership from private hands.  Obama's HC plan doesn't do that.  http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

The private companies still have to compete for business.  It is as much a free enterprise system as any other we have in this country.

Government involvement in business is not de facto socialism.

Now, is there any plank in the Obama platform that can be characterized as socialism?

This isn't simply government involvement.  It is government control.  The government will mandate insurance coverage for every American.  From your link:

Guaranteed eligibility. No American will be turned away from any insurance plan because of illness or pre-existing conditions.
Comprehensive benefits. . . .
. . .
National Health Insurance Exchange: The Obama plan will create a National Health Insurance Exchange to help individuals who wish to purchase a private insurance plan. The Exchange will act as a watchdog group and help reform the private insurance market by creating rules and standards for participating insurance plans to ensure fairness and to make individual coverage more affordable and accessible. Insurers would have to issue every applicant a policy, and charge fair and stable premiums that will not depend upon health status. The Exchange will require that all the plans offered are at least as generous as the new public plan and have the same standards for quality and efficiency. The Exchange would evaluate plans and make the differences among the plans, including cost of services, public.


Decker

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #63 on: September 09, 2008, 01:18:52 PM »
This isn't simply government involvement.  It is government control.  The government will mandate insurance coverage for every American.  From your link:

Guaranteed eligibility. No American will be turned away from any insurance plan because of illness or pre-existing conditions.
Comprehensive benefits. . . .
. . .
National Health Insurance Exchange: The Obama plan will create a National Health Insurance Exchange to help individuals who wish to purchase a private insurance plan. The Exchange will act as a watchdog group and help reform the private insurance market by creating rules and standards for participating insurance plans to ensure fairness and to make individual coverage more affordable and accessible. Insurers would have to issue every applicant a policy, and charge fair and stable premiums that will not depend upon health status. The Exchange will require that all the plans offered are at least as generous as the new public plan and have the same standards for quality and efficiency. The Exchange would evaluate plans and make the differences among the plans, including cost of services, public.


I see your point.  Is a governmental mandated floor for private insurance eligibility along with premium payment support socialism?  No.  The private insurers must still compete for business.  Gov. makes more customers but the insurance companies must still compete for their premium dollar.

Do you view mandatory ownership of auto insurance as socialism as well?

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #64 on: September 09, 2008, 01:28:32 PM »
I see your point.  Is a governmental mandated floor for private insurance eligibility along with premium payment support socialism?  No.  The private insurers must still compete for business.  Gov. makes more customers but the insurance companies must still compete for their premium dollar.

Do you view mandatory ownership of auto insurance as socialism as well?

Are they really competing for business?  Any insurer that wants to issue health insurance coverage would be required to offer coverage to every applicant.  It's mandated coverage.  That doesn't sound like choice or free market to me.

Don't understand your question.  The government doesn't own insurance companies.  If you're talking about the government mandating that individuals obtain car insurance, no I don't view that as socialism.  Or were you talking about something else?       

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #65 on: September 09, 2008, 01:31:24 PM »
Are they really competing for business?  Any insurer that wants to issue health insurance coverage would be required to offer coverage to every applicant.  It's mandated coverage.  That doesn't sound like choice or free market to me.

Don't understand your question.  The government doesn't own insurance companies.   If you're talking about the government mandating that individuals obtain car insurance, no I don't view that as socialism.  Or were you talking about something else?       
The bold comment...that's precisely why Obama's UHC is not socialism.

Obama's program makes coverage mandatory but private insurance companies must compete for that business.  It's like the competition for a gov. contract.

I was talking about gov. mandating auto insurance ownership.

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #66 on: September 09, 2008, 01:47:08 PM »
The bold comment...that's precisely why Obama's UHC is not socialism.

Obama's program makes coverage mandatory but private insurance companies must compete for that business.  It's like the competition for a gov. contract.

I was talking about gov. mandating auto insurance ownership.

I agree it is similar to competing for government contracts, but we're talking about something that affects the entire country with this healthcare business.  The competition aspect is a farce IMO.  They're competing to offer mandatory coverage.  The carriers will not have a choice. 

And . . . he pays for this by raising taxes on people and businesses he considers wealthy.

In the auto insurance context, state governments mandate insurance coverage, but they don't require insurance companies to insure every applicant.   

Decker

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #67 on: September 09, 2008, 01:56:44 PM »
I agree it is similar to competing for government contracts, but we're talking about something that affects the entire country with this healthcare business.  The competition aspect is a farce IMO.  They're competing to offer mandatory coverage.  The carriers will not have a choice. 

And . . . he pays for this by raising taxes on people and businesses he considers wealthy.

In the auto insurance context, state governments mandate insurance coverage, but they don't require insurance companies to insure every applicant.   
I don't think it's a farce but there will be jockeying amongst Big Insurance for those mandated premium payments.  It's not pure market driven forces by any stretch, but so much of the 'free' market is not free at all so the distinction that this kind of competition is farcical could equally be applied to almost any other major market---any gov. bailout is a corruption of the free market--goodbye Big Auto and Big Mortgage lenders; any gov. subsidy of private enterprise is a corruption...

Beach Bum, you have to go where the money is at.  Debt is for the right reason and in the right amount is a good thing.  The US is full of bad debt.  Debt for illegal wars--bad.  Debt for US infrastructure--good.  Anyways, the Chinese own our asses. 

I think you bring out an important distinction btn auto and health insurance.  Driving is a privilege.  Health is right.

Would you agree with that assessment?

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #68 on: September 09, 2008, 02:11:05 PM »
I don't think it's a farce but there will be jockeying amongst Big Insurance for those mandated premium payments.  It's not pure market driven forces by any stretch, but so much of the 'free' market is not free at all so the distinction that this kind of competition is farcical could equally be applied to almost any other major market---any gov. bailout is a corruption of the free market--goodbye Big Auto and Big Mortgage lenders; any gov. subsidy of private enterprise is a corruption...

Beach Bum, you have to go where the money is at.  Debt is for the right reason and in the right amount is a good thing.  The US is full of bad debt.  Debt for illegal wars--bad.  Debt for US infrastructure--good.  Anyways, the Chinese own our asses. 

I think you bring out an important distinction btn auto and health insurance.  Driving is a privilege.  Health is right.

Would you agree with that assessment?

Depends.  Do you mean healthcare is a right?   

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #69 on: September 09, 2008, 02:17:16 PM »
The Bush administration played a gigantic hand in putting our Country in this shape.  

You people must still support his administration to even consider voting McCain?

Amazing haha  ;D

The guys seemed to look over this post

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #70 on: September 09, 2008, 02:23:02 PM »
Depends.  Do you mean healthcare is a right?   
Yup, thanks for the clarification.

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #71 on: September 09, 2008, 02:29:32 PM »
Yup, thanks for the clarification.

I don't think all healthcare is a right.  We already have anti-patient dumping laws on the books that require hospitals to treat people who show up at the emergency room in need of urgent care.  We give free vaccinations to low income people in many communities.  We provide free healthcare in county and state hospitals.  We provide free healthcare through Medicare, Medicaid, and their state equivalents.  You can get free healthcare in the military.  In Hawaii, every employer must provide free health insurance to all of its full-time employees.

Do I think with all of this that people who fall through the cracks have a "right" to any kind of medical treatment?  No.  Should we try and help those who fall through the cracks?  Yes.     

Decker

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #72 on: September 09, 2008, 02:34:29 PM »
I don't think all healthcare is a right.  We already have anti-patient dumping laws on the books that require hospitals to treat people who show up at the emergency room in need of urgent care.  We give free vaccinations to low income people in many communities.  We provide free healthcare in county and state hospitals.  We provide free healthcare through Medicare, Medicaid, and their state equivalents.  You can get free healthcare in the military.  In Hawaii, every employer must provide free health insurance to all of its full-time employees.

Do I think with all of this that people who fall through the cracks have a "right" to any kind of medical treatment?  No.  Should we try and help those who fall through the cracks?  Yes.     
That's what I thought.  "Quality of Life" re the most basic of necessities is a liberal concept.

"If they are going to die, then they'd best do it....and decrease the surplus population!  Good day!"

--Ebenezer Beach Bum

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Re: Phenomenal Speech
« Reply #73 on: September 09, 2008, 02:47:50 PM »
That's what I thought.  "Quality of Life" re the most basic of necessities is a liberal concept.

"If they are going to die, then they'd best do it....and decrease the surplus population!  Good day!"

--Ebenezer Beach Bum

lol.  I'm no scrooge.  I once gave a panhandler a dollar.   :)

Quality of life is an American concept.