Why I seriously dislike the republican party

[w8tlftr]

And would you consider today's democratic party "leftist"? If you do then definitely you must live totally isolated from human beings. When it comes to the spectrum of political systems, today's democratic party is center-right, that is why you see democrats all of a sudden running for the democratic party and viceversa: Because the political ideals are pretty much the same, and the issues that separate them are, as they say, "at the fringes". I mean, there is a clear cut difference in the way each party formulates its policy, but other than that they can pretty much call themselves the Demoblicans or Republicrats and people would not know the difference.

It's my opinion that there is a strong element in the current Democratic party that's very leftest. Clinton was a centrist. I think they've changed a lot in the past 8 years and probably due to the actions of the far right.

Well, hold on now! Bush and Cheney are not democrats (and will never be). The Bible/Bomb-for-Profit crowd are an entirely republican phenomena. They must've come from SOMEWHERE. They're like the Taliban: Took over and are making everyone's life miserable. 

Well, they sure as frak aren't conservatives either. True conservatives don't spend money they way they do or expand the role of government or violate our privacy.

And yet you grill me as a "unloyal socialist" who wants to change his government for saying essentially the same things...

Wow.

I have no problem questioning your loyalty or love of this country. It's my opinion that people that claim to be to the FAR left want to change it into what it's not. That's not love. If that offends you, well... sorry to be a dick, but tough. It's my opinion.

I think what separates you and I is that I don't want to change the country. I want it to go back to it's conservative roots and by conservative I do not mean God-Bot. I mean true individual freedom and liberty.

[Slapper]

Slapper, you recall that online test you took that provided a bit of insight to what sort of political views you supported. You took the test and posted your results. You recall what yours was? I do. It was socialism. So, what would you call a political view that was FAR LEFT of the democratic party? If it's not socialism or statism I'd love to know what it is. It certainly isn't capitalism.

I AM NOT A SOCIALIST. Do you understand the words coming out of my mouth? I mean, look at your posts, you've gone on an on making baseless and useless comments based on me being a communist or a Marxist, even though I've told you repeatedly that I am not a socialist. Friggin stubbornness!

I don't have a problem with the government "re-prioritizing" how our tax dollars are used. I don't support the war in Iraq so using that money here to build up our nations infrastructure would be a good start. We're 9 trillion in the red so you'll get no argument from me on cutting back spending.

So YOU DO want to change something you "love": How tax dollars are spent and controlling government spending. Doesn't that make you less of a patriot by your weird loyalty standards?

Now, these are YOUR words: "I am FAR to the left of the democrats." I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here. Please clarify what you mean by that.

I am "somewhat" an anarchist my friend. I want NO power structure above me. None whatsoever. I do not want ANY government intrusion as to how I have to manage my property or how I spend my money. If I want to put a huge statue of Dave Mustaine in my front yard I do not want any "local representative" or James Hetfield coming to my house telling me to take it down... Without getting an ass-whoopin'. Capisci

Until I support statism or redistribution of wealth I'm no socialist. Not by a long shot.

But you just talked about "re-prioritizing" how out tax dollars are spent which is redistributing the wealth of the nation...

Maybe I wasn't clear so I apologize. What am asking here is why anyone that truly loves their country would want to change it into what it's not.Now, and just for arguments sake, let's say you did want our government to adopt a more socialist/statist position. All I'm saying is that because the United States is historically not a socialist country (although we have been dabbling in it more and more since FDR's administration) if you did love it so much why change it? A person doesn't change something he loves. That's not logical. Restore? Yes. Change? No.

Are you saying the US is going in the right direction? Our foreign policy SUCKS. Our economy is on the verge of collapse. We've mortgaged our kid's future for many decades. Our currency is at a par with the Mauritanian Kiki-Makä. And yet you pretend the country needs no changing? Are you really THAT blind? I mean, this is why I do not understand your reasoning, because you insinuate that wanting to change what is going wrong is "unpatriotic". I mean, like I said, patriotism is a personal thing. You may or may not consider me a patriot, and you have a right to do so, but I also have a right to not give a shit about your opinion on patriotism... Which I don't. Yet, you turn it around into a Harry Potter fairy tale making it seem as though I want a communist regime in the US... I mean, how off the mark are you?

Who controls the money? The government via Universal Health Care or the present Health Care System? I have ZERO problem at all with improving our current health care system, public schools, emergency infrastructure, our military, etc.

Our government pours immense amounts of money into the military-industrial complex. Those tax dollars eventually make into people's heads in the form of bullets or bombs or mines. Is that your version of patriotism? I mean, why not grab half of the money we just hand over to these generals and admirals and get a decent universal health care system (for example)? I mean the baby-boomers got their Social Security and noone says shit. You talk about the government setting up a fund to pay for a simple chest x-ray and everyone jumps up in disgust. I mean, if we are to live under a governmental umbrella, the everpresent federal government, we MUST make it work for us, not viceversa. Otherwise, GET RID OF IT! And please do not tell me that the government is inefficient and would not be able to carry out such a problem. The IRS is somehow able to account for every single fucking penny you and I make. You cannot count pennies in your friggin head without the IRS knowing about it. So do not tell me the government cannot carry out large-scale programs.

I just don't share your faith in the way our government spends our money. IMO, they've proven time and time again that it's wasted with little to no accountability. That really is our fault though. We don't hold our elected officials accountable. We just reelect them because Americans have been successfully programed to vote along party lines and believe everything our party told us.

If that is what you believe, do you think we need a changin or not? I know you profess undying love for a geographic entity called the USA, but I sense you do have doubts. Do you think a "better" USA is possible? If so, what is it? Do you think the republican (or democratic) party will bring about any profound changes that will put the country back in its intended path?

[Slapper]

It's my opinion that there is a strong element in the current Democratic party that's very leftest. Clinton was a centrist. I think they've changed a lot in the past 8 years and probably due to the actions of the far right.

The only "strong" leftist "element" in the democratic party has gone on to the Ralph Nader side. I mean, you may see a few die-hards who think the party is eventually going to become a bunch of tree-huggers, but the main base of leftists is no longer in the democratic party. Don't get me wrong, they've been successful selling their game because of the large pool of non-voters in the US, but the base is gone. Nada. Niente.

And the change you're referring to has nothing to do with the far right, it has to do with selling your soul to the devil ("special" interest groups,) which they have. Hilary herself, who is my neighbor by the way, said it herself when she insinuated that there is nothing wrong with letting lobbyists pay for your vacation trips or buy you a huge house in the middle of Arkansas.

Well, they sure as frak aren't conservatives either. True conservatives don't spend money they way they do or expand the role of government or violate our privacy.

They are republican candidates though...

I have no problem questioning your loyalty or love of this country. It's my opinion that people that claim to be to the FAR left want to change it into what it's not. That's not love. If that offends you, well... sorry to be a dick, but tough. It's my opinion.

And I do not give a shit about your opinion on patriotism. I'm sorry, but I can't say it any clearer. It's like me saying I do not like the way you play basketball. Who the fuck cares!

I think what separates you and I is that I don't want to change the country.

I do not know why, but I get the impresion you're still hung over the "socialist" thing and you think I want to bring socialism to the USA. You do not think that, do you? Because if you do you are not reading what I'm writing.

I want it to go back to it's conservative roots and by conservative I do not mean God-Bot. I mean true individual freedom and liberty.

And what "conservative" roots are you talking about exactly? You just baffled me with that comment.

[w8tlftr]

I AM NOT A SOCIALIST. Do you understand the words coming out of my mouth? I mean, look at your posts, you've gone on an on making baseless and useless comments based on me being a communist or a Marxist, even though I've told you repeatedly that I am not a socialist. Friggin stubbornness!

I already asked you to clarify your position. You said you are far to the left of democrats. Please tell me what that makes you... and calm down. We're just having a civil discussion. Heart attacks are not necessary.

So YOU DO want to change something you "love": How tax dollars are spent and controlling government spending. Doesn't that make you less of a patriot by your weird loyalty standards?

Not at all. There is a difference between changing something into something new vs. restoration. You're smart. I know you know this.

I am "somewhat" an anarchist my friend. I want NO power structure above me. None whatsoever. I do not want ANY government intrusion as to how I have to manage my property or how I spend my money. If I want to put a huge statue of Dave Mustaine in my front yard I do not want any "local representative" or James Hetfield coming to my house telling me to take it down... Without getting an ass-whoopin'. Capisci

Those are conservative values. Are you far to the right of Democrats now?

But you just talked about "re-prioritizing" how out tax dollars are spent which is redistributing the wealth of the nation...

I'm not taking about redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor. Those are socialist values. I'm taking about a reprioritization or, if since you prefer this term, a redistribution of the tax revenue collected from money pits like Iraq into domestic spending.

Are you saying the US is going in the right direction? Our foreign policy SUCKS. Our economy is on the verge of collapse. We've mortgaged our kid's future for many decades. Our currency is at a par with the Mauritanian Kiki-Makä. And yet you pretend the country needs no changing? Are you really THAT blind? I mean, this is why I do not understand your reasoning, because you insinuate that wanting to change what is going wrong is "unpatriotic". I mean, like I said, patriotism is a personal thing. You may or may not consider me a patriot, and you have a right to do so, but I also have a right to not give a shit about your opinion on patriotism... Which I don't. Yet, you turn it around into a Harry Potter fairy tale making it seem as though I want a communist regime in the US... I mean, how off the mark are you?

You're preaching to the choir. I'm in agreement with you on this. We spend more than we take in and then borrow money so we can spend more. That's not how we used to do things. I want to go back to that. Although it's amusing to me to see you try to twist my reasoning. I've been pretty consistent in this conversation, Slapper.

Our government pours immense amounts of money into the military-industrial complex. Those tax dollars eventually make into people's heads in the form of bullets or bombs or mines. Is that your version of patriotism?

I didn't say it was. Have you any posts I've made supporting the military industrial complex?

I mean, why not grab half of the money we just hand over to these generals and admirals and get a decent universal health care system (for example)? I mean the baby-boomers got their Social Security and noone says shit. You talk about the government setting up a fund to pay for a simple chest x-ray and everyone jumps up in disgust. I mean, if we are to live under a governmental umbrella, the everpresent federal government, we MUST make it work for us, not viceversa. Otherwise, GET RID OF IT! And please do not tell me that the government is inefficient and would not be able to carry out such a problem. The IRS is somehow able to account for every single fucking penny you and I make. You cannot count pennies in your friggin head without the IRS knowing about it. So do not tell me the government cannot carry out large-scale programs.

If that is what you believe, do you think we need a changin or not? I know you profess undying love for a geographic entity called the USA, but I sense you do have doubts. Do you think a "better" USA is possible? If so, what is it? Do you think the republican (or democratic) party will bring about any profound changes that will put the country back in its intended path?

What do you think the role of the government should be, Slapper? Do we need more or less of it?

[w8tlftr]

The only "strong" leftist "element" in the democratic party has gone on to the Ralph Nader side. I mean, you may see a few die-hards who think the party is eventually going to become a bunch of tree-huggers, but the main base of leftists is no longer in the democratic party. Don't get me wrong, they've been successful selling their game because of the large pool of non-voters in the US, but the base is gone. Nada. Niente.

And the change you're referring to has nothing to do with the far right, it has to do with selling your soul to the devil ("special" interest groups,) which they have. Hilary herself, who is my neighbor by the way, said it herself when she insinuated that there is nothing wrong with letting lobbyists pay for your vacation trips or buy you a huge house in the middle of Arkansas.

Okay. That's your opinion and I'm not going to change your mind.

But thank you for pointing out that prominent Democrats like Hillary Clinton is guilty of it too.

They are republican candidates though...

That still doesn't make them conservatives.

And I do not give a shit about your opinion on patriotism. I'm sorry, but I can't say it any clearer. It's like me saying I do not like the way you play basketball. Who the fuck cares!

Nice. We agree on something.

I do not know why, but I get the impresion you're still hung over the "socialist" thing and you think I want to bring socialism to the USA. You do not think that, do you? Because if you do you are not reading what I'm writing.

Hey, man, I'm just going by what you said about being to the far left of Democrats. I've already asked you to clarify what being to the far left of them means.

And what "conservative" roots are you talking about exactly? You just baffled me with that comment.

Abolish the income tax and simplify the tax code, non-invterventionalist foreign policy, abolish the Federal Reserve, abolish the Patriot Act, having the government stay the fuck out of the way on how people choose to live their lives (gay marraige for example), end this BS war on drugs campaign... I think you get the picture. Should I just provide a link to Ron Paul's or Jesse Ventura's books on Amazon because I'm pretty much on board with those two men think we need to do to restore the country.

Anyhoo, enjoy your Sunday. It'll time for kickoff and I have a fantasy football team to manage. 

[Slapper]

I already asked you to clarify your position. You said you are far to the left of democrats. Please tell me what that makes you... and calm down. We're just having a civil discussion. Heart attacks are not necessary.

I told you already.  Read up.

Not at all. There is a difference between changing something into something new vs. restoration. You're smart. I know you know this.

You just said you want to change how tax money is distributed. Did you or did you not? The "restoring" thing is something you just brought up. Your baby, you run with it. I'm talking about change per se.

Those are conservative values. Are you far to the right of Democrats now?

No, that is what YOU are saying. And just because YOU say it it does not mean it is a fact. Besides it's not that I may be more conservative than you think, it may very well be that you are more libertarian than YOU think:

I'm not taking about redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor.

And I ain't talking about that either. I'm talking about the redistribution of our tax dollars.

Those are socialist values. I'm taking about a reprioritization or, if since you prefer this term, a redistribution of the tax revenue collected from money pits like Iraq into domestic spending.

And that is exactly what I've been saying all along. Do you now understand the idiocy in saying that I am a "socialist" or insinuating that I ain't much of a "patriot"?

You're preaching to the choir. I'm in agreement with you on this. We spend more than we take in and then borrow money so we can spend more. That's not how we used to do things. I want to go back to that. Although it's amusing to me to see you try to twist my reasoning. I've been pretty consistent in this conversation, Slapper.

Pretty consistent in what? Calling me a socialist and unpatriotic because I want similar things for my country?   

I didn't say it was. Have you any posts I've made supporting the military industrial complex?

If all I want to do is redistribute our tax dollars from the military-industrial complex to spending on programs (fixing roads, tax cuts, etc) here in the USA what in the world would drive you to term that as "unpatriotic" and to question my "loyalty"? See what I'm saying?

What do you think the role of the government should be, Slapper? Do we need more or less of it?

I've told you already: I want no government. Period. Now, I am also a realist and realise that majority rules hence my passive acceptance of governance. If we're to have a government, might as well have one that works for The People. Capisci.

[Slapper]

Okay. That's your opinion and I'm not going to change your mind.

But thank you for pointing out that prominent Democrats like Hillary Clinton is guilty of it too.

That still doesn't make them conservatives.

Nice. We agree on something.

Hey, man, I'm just going by what you said about being to the far left of Democrats. I've already asked you to clarify what being to the far left of them means.

Abolish the income tax and simplify the tax code, non-invterventionalist foreign policy, abolish the Federal Reserve, abolish the Patriot Act, having the government stay the fuck out of the way on how people choose to live their lives (gay marraige for example), end this BS war on drugs campaign... I think you get the picture. Should I just provide a link to Ron Paul's or Jesse Ventura's books on Amazon because I'm pretty much on board with those two men think we need to do to restore the country.

Anyhoo, enjoy your Sunday. It'll time for kickoff and I have a fantasy football team to manage. 

But are those really "conservative" values? I would say they are common sense values that you've attached to the term "conservative".

[w8tlftr]

But are those really "conservative" values? I would say they are common sense values that you've attached to the term "conservative".

Well then that settles it. Conservatism is common sense.

I guess we have more in common than I thought.

Enjoy your Sunday, Slapper. There's some good football on today.