Is fruit a bad source of carbs?

[slaveboy1980]

The only thing that has ever worked very well for me is no carb, but it very, very difficult to keep that going because even protein powder has some carbs.

there is no reason to go zero carbs. and besides you dont have to go zero carbs to achieve ketosis if thats your goal.

keep some carbs in your fatloss diet to give you energy to workout etc.

main thing is : caloric deficit and lift as heavy as you can to keep your hard earned muscle

[Tapeworm]

The only thing that has ever worked very well for me is no carb, but it very, very difficult to keep that going because even protein powder has some carbs.

You may be mistaking water loss for fat loss.  Fat is calorie rich, as you know.  A debt of 3500 cals would be required, in a perfect world where every single cal under maintenance results in fat loss only, to lose just 1 lb.  In reality, you're doing well to lose 1/2 lb per week.  With the amount of water you hold varying, fat loss might not even register on the scale for a couple months, and you won't really see it in the mirror until you're around 13%.  In fact, you'll probably look even worse at 15% than at near 20% as your body lets go of the fat everywhere but your midsection.  I think a lot of guys give up because they can't stand to see themselves shrinking.  They figure they'll have the same size arms, legs, chest, etc, but with abs, and it's a rude awakening when their 18" arms drop to 17, 16, 15.5...  At any rate, there's no reason a moderate amount of low GI carbs will do you much harm.  Worrying about the carbs in protein powder is just crazy.

Fwiw, I don't use any shakes or liquid nutrition when dieting.  High volume calorie sparse foods will keep you absolutely stuffed even in a caloric deficit.  I still have cravings for the first week or so, but that's different than being hungry.  Carb intake should be moderated and protein increased imo.

[ASJChaotic]

I don`t think one has to "diet" to stay low bodyfat at all.

For instance, if Bodybuilder is currently at 5 percent bodyfat and ate 2000 calories a day to get there, he can continue to eat 2000 calories just fine.  Also, he can eat 4000 or what have you on some days and then eat 2000 for a few days and repeat.  He can even raise his calories from 2000 to whatever amount causes him to stay just below weight gain.

So no, I do not agree that one has to "diet" constantly.  I don`t like the prepositional phrase "to diet" as I believe it makes little to no sense.  There is no such thing as "to diet".

By "to diet" I mean eat fewer calories than needed to maintain current weight, that's how I "diet" anyways 
just cuttin calories to 3000 and NOT "eating clean  "

[tbombz]

The only thing that has ever worked very well for me is no carb, but it very, very difficult to keep that going because even protein powder has some carbs.

if your dieting you shouldnt have but MAYBE one protein shake per day... and you could get an isolate with zero carbs too

[Galvatron]

if your dieting you shouldnt have but MAYBE one protein shake per day... and you could get an isolate with zero carbs too

you can have as many protein shakes as you want, but they dont fill you up the same way as regular food does, thus they make dieting harder.

[suckmymuscle]

Because of the fructose?

What are peoples' ideas on this?

  Compared to what? To ice cream and pizza it is a fantastic source of carbs, because it comes with tons of fiber, phtochemicals, vitamins and minerals. And with the possible exception of grapes, fruits won't cause the huge insulin spike that ice cream and pizza will because, even though fruit is loaded with glucose, it comes with fiber which slows absorption considerably thus causing a much lower insulin spike than simple sugars in processed foods and fructose itself has a very low GI.

  As for fructose, there is some debate regarding increased glycation that comes from eating foods rich in it. Frcutose boosts glycation 10 times more than glucose. However, glycation is more dependant on protein intake than actual simple sugar consumption, so ingesting tons of frcutose might only be bad if you also eat lots of protein. The real problem of fruits comes from glucose and not fructose, but this is only a problem if you want to get really, really ripped. Even though the fiber in fruit decreases a lot the insulin spike caused by the glucose contained in it, it still will cause a slightly higher spike in insulin than something like cream of rye. While you can get single-digit bodyfat whilst eating lots of fruit, you might not be able to get to 3% bodyfat. Again, this should only be relevant for bodybuilders preparing for contests. so unless you are dieting for a contest, eat as much fruit as you want.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

P.S: This thread should be at the nutrition board.

[suckmymuscle]

Eat as much as you like to meet your needs.

  This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You can get all your vitamins, minerals and essential amino acids by eating at McDonald's ano nowhere else and I hardly think you'll be healthy eating nothing but their menu every day.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Van_Bilderass]

 As for fructose, there is some debate regarding increased glycation that comes from eating foods rich in it. Frcutose boosts glycation 10 times more than glucose. However, glycation is more dependant on protein intake than actual simple sugar consumption, so ingesting tons of frcutose might only be bad if you also eat lots of protein. The real problem of fruits comes from glucose and not fructose, but this is only a problem if you want to get really, really ripped. Even though the fiber in fruit decreases a lot the insulin spike caused by the glucose contained in it, it still will cause a slightly higher spike in insulin than something like cream of rye. While you can get single-digit bodyfat whilst eating lots of fruit, you might not be able to get to 3% bodyfat. Again, this should only be relevant for bodybuilders preparing for contests. so unless you are dieting for a contest, eat as much fruit as you want.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

P.S: This thread should be at the nutrition board.

It's not glycation that is the reason for the fructose fear. It's the research on fructose and high fructose corn syrup and obesity. Basically fructose is metabolized differently than glucose for example and makes you fatter when consumed to excess.

[suckmymuscle]

It's not glycation that is the reason for the fructose fear. It's the research on fructose and high fructose corn syrup and obesity. Basically fructose is metabolized differently than glucose for example and makes you fatter when consumed to excess.

  Well, the only thing about fructose that might be reason for some concern is the potential for increased glycation since that leads to artherosclerosis, gout, diabetes melitus and even increased cross-linking of collagen in the skin which causes wrinkles. However, again, glycation seems to be more dependent on protein intake then on simple sugar intake, including fructose, and most of the simple sugar in fruit is glucose anyway which is the simple sugar that increases glycation the least so it shouldn't matter. And fruit is loaded with phytochemicals that have health benefits.

  As for fructose making you fat, that is laughable. Frcutose has an extremely low GI and what makes you fat are ultimately calories, meaning that even if you ate tons of sugar with high GI you would still not gain fat if you kept your caloric ingestion at or beneath your metabolic needs. I would worry far more about the glucose in fruit, which has a GI of 100, then poor old fructose. Again, the fiber in fruit lowers the GI a lot, but the GI of most fruits is still higher than that of some unprocessed cereals like cream of rye. But again, this should only be relevant if you want to get really, really ripped(unhealthy). If you want to be slim with single-digit bodyfat - but not something like 3% - and very healthy, then you can eat as much fruit as you want.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[tbombz]

you can have as many protein shakes as you want, but they dont fill you up the same way as regular food does, thus they make dieting harder.

theres also a complete lack of dietary thermogensis associated with protein shakes, while meat proteins have a huge thermic effect. resulting in a great caloric defecit by utlizing more meat protein sources over utilizing the same amount of protein but from a whey source. as well as slower digestion of meat sources, which will be better for staying anti-catabolic.. (the goal of dieting is to burn as much fat as possible while remaining anti-catabolic)

[Necrosis]

  Compared to what? To ice cream and pizza it is a fantastic source of carbs, because it comes with tons of fiber, phtochemicals, vitamins and minerals. And with the possible exception of grapes, fruits won't cause the huge insulin spike that ice cream and pizza will because, even though fruit is loaded with glucose, it comes with fiber which slows absorption considerably thus causing a much lower insulin spike than simple sugars in processed foods and fructose itself has a very low GI.

  As for fructose, there is some debate regarding increased glycation that comes from eating foods rich in it. Frcutose boosts glycation 10 times more than glucose. However, glycation is more dependant on protein intake than actual simple sugar consumption, so ingesting tons of frcutose might only be bad if you also eat lots of protein. The real problem of fruits comes from glucose and not fructose, but this is only a problem if you want to get really, really ripped. Even though the fiber in fruit decreases a lot the insulin spike caused by the glucose contained in it, it still will cause a slightly higher spike in insulin than something like cream of rye. While you can get single-digit bodyfat whilst eating lots of fruit, you might not be able to get to 3% bodyfat. Again, this should only be relevant for bodybuilders preparing for contests. so unless you are dieting for a contest, eat as much fruit as you want.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

P.S: This thread should be at the nutrition board.

fructose is non insuligenic per se

[tbombz]

 
  As for fructose making you fat, that is laughable. Frcutose has an extremely low GI and what makes you fat are ultimately calories, meaning that even if you ate tons of sugar with high GI you would still not gain fat if you kept your caloric ingestion at or beneath your metabolic needs.

dude anybody who has done any kind of researching on anything related to bodybuilding always sees right through your posts. just stop it.

[HTexan]

pytochemicals

[Rami]

I just replaced all my carbsources with bananas only since some days ago, I don't think it was that optimal. Potato and rice cakes filled my muscles better.

[Necrosis]

alot of studies are indicating that it is the presence of insulin which inhibits lipolysis, gary taubes is the biggest proponent of this idea.

[tbombz]

alot of studies are indicating that it is the presence of insulin which inhibits lipolysis, gary taubes is the biggest proponent of this idea.

i thought that was established as fact quite a while ago, ? no?

[mazrim]

while meat proteins have a huge thermic effect. resulting in a great caloric defecit

I wouldn't exactly call it "huge".

[tbombz]

I wouldn't exactly call it "huge".

30-40% of proteins caloric worth .. pretty big.. lets say your getting 400g protein per day.. 400g X 4cals per g = 1600 cals from protein each day... with shakes you get no added thermogensis but with meat proteins youll get 480-640 vals extra thermogensis per day... thats about 500 cal defecit difference between using meats only verse shakes only.. kinda significant when most diets only create a 300-500 defecit per day..

[wood]

I've cut down several times using varied means and my most recent was the most effective, it incorporated blueberries or grapefruits twice a day among other details.

[Royalty]

Fructose doesnt get stored as muscle glycogen.....but only as liver glycogen. So dont over do it with fructose. Some is fructose is good, but focus more on brown rice, oatmeal, whole wheat pasta, and potatoes for muscle glycogen replenishment

[Meso_z]

just EAT your fruit. 

[Necrosis]

i thought that was established as fact quite a while ago, ? no?

not really, because what he is suggesting is that a low carbohydrate diet and high carb diet with the same amount of calories will have different effects on body comp. In the sense you are thinking of it in yes you are right.

[Galvatron]

theres also a complete lack of dietary thermogensis associated with protein shakes, while meat proteins have a huge thermic effect. resulting in a great caloric defecit by utlizing more meat protein sources over utilizing the same amount of protein but from a whey source. as well as slower digestion of meat sources, which will be better for staying anti-catabolic.. (the goal of dieting is to burn as much fat as possible while remaining anti-catabolic)

the first part isnt true, and it doesnt have any significant effect.

as for the digestion, it depends on what kind of protein shakes you use 

AND whey protein can be made into 'slow protein' (or slower atleast) by eating carbs such as oatmeal with the whey protein.

personally i prefer eating real food (specially when dieting) fills me up alot better than protein shakes.

[Galvatron]

Fructose doesnt get stored as muscle glycogen.....but only as liver glycogen. So dont over do it with fructose. Some is fructose is good, but focus more on brown rice, oatmeal, whole wheat pasta, and potatoes for muscle glycogen replenishment

thats not the question. the main thing is that fruit will be no problem in regards to fructose unless you eat insane amounts of fruit.

the fructose danger comes from ingesting too much refined suger. (via sodas, cookies etc)

[tbombz]

and it doesnt have any significant effect.

look it up lazy, learn to teach yourself.. dont be a fool