Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?

[Decker]

I wasn't defining socialism.  I was ascribing the attribute that socialism and higher taxes go hand-in-hand.  

No they don't.  There is no connection btn the two other than the one you've created.

The rich don't "hoard", they make sound economic decisions while the poor make POOR economic decisions.  Tax cuts are not a redistribution.  They are people keeping more of the money they earn.  Only someone with such a skewed and backwards view of economics could believe the nonsense coming out of you.

How on earth is a tax cut pay out not a form of redistribution of governmental assets?  Please explain.

Tax cuts have benefited the US economy EVERY TIME.  Gov't spending ALSO has to be lessened or controlled so as to facilitate the cuts.  Neither Obama and McCain are great candidates to support that but given the choice I would rather not vote for the man guaranteed to up spending, raise taxes, and expand.  McCain, at least, MIGHT do something about it.  Obama sits there and convinces the retards who support him that he will cut taxes for the middle class.  It's a falsehood.  Everything Obama will do with raise costs of living and inflation and the tax structure will only serve to keep the middle class from moving upwards.  Capital gains alone is hugely destructive and will be much worse under Obama.

Tax cuts also are a NET LOSS EVERY TIME b/c the permanent loss of tax revenue is never recouped by the attendant rise in production due to the cut.

You are near hysterics with your histrionical claims:  'Everything Obama  will do with raise the costs of living and inflation...."

Do you have any evidence at all to support your wild conclusions?  I think not.

Remember, taxes don't much matter to the Nation's economy.  It really is that simple.

America is best country on the planet because the working populace still has some degree of control and freedom to choose where our money goes.  Obama and those like yourself seek to ruin that and make those decisions for us.  That's not freedom.

I don't know what you mean by the working populace having freedom b/c it can decide where to spend its money.  I don't think freedom is determined by economics.  I do think consumer choice in the market place is a bastardization of the concept of sweet, terrible freedom.

But this is what I expect from a country whose citizenry is conditioned to think acquisitive success is the pinnacle of free living.  It's not.

[Brixtonbulldog]

...can you illustrate this point with an example? (see my previous post)


The Luke

http://www.house.gov/jec/fiscal/tx-grwth/reagtxct/reagtxct.htm

[big L dawg]

[big L dawg]

[Hugo Chavez]

"and we just love cheap plastic crap from China" ahahahahahaha

[Brixtonbulldog]

How on earth is a tax cut pay out not a form of redistribution of governmental assets?  Please explain.
Tax cuts also are a NET LOSS EVERY TIME b/c the permanent loss of tax revenue is never recouped by the attendant rise in production due to the cut.

You are near hysterics with your histrionical claims:  'Everything Obama  will do with raise the costs of living and inflation...."

Do you have any evidence at all to support your wild conclusions?  I think not.

Remember, taxes don't much matter to the Nation's economy.  It really is that simple.
I don't know what you mean by the working populace having freedom b/c it can decide where to spend its money.  I don't think freedom is determined by economics.  I do think consumer choice in the market place is a bastardization of the concept of sweet, terrible freedom.

But this is what I expect from a country whose citizenry is conditioned to think acquisitive success is the pinnacle of free living.  It's not.

Typical liberal.  You label taxes "governmental assets" when the reality is that money is the taxpayers. It is GIVEN to the gov't (in theory).  You even try to contort the situation by calling it a "pay out" when a tax cut is simply taking LESS from the citizenry in the first place.

Obama is an outright tax and spend lib.  You can bitch about my reasons for thinking that but it is painfully obvious.

Freedom is very heavily determined by economics.  When socialists (like Obama) want everyone to depend on the gov't for everything and have less and less control over their own money I don't see how you can claim otherwise unless you support the same (which is obvious you do).  Conservatism preaches accountability to the tax payer.  Our money should be used to support the causes the tax PAYER supports not the causes of the elite who want to dictate where and how our money is spent.  People like you only serve to destroy that accountability.  If you want to give more of your money to a wasteful and  gov't feel free but the whole idea behind a "free" country is that people like you shouldn't be able to pick-pocket the rest of us.

[big L dawg]

Typical liberal.  You label taxes "governmental assets" when the reality is that money is the taxpayers. It is GIVEN to the gov't (in theory).  You even try to contort the situation by calling it a "pay out" when a tax cut is simply taking LESS from the citizenry in the first place.

Obama is an outright tax and spend lib.  You can bitch about my reasons for thinking that but it is painfully obvious.

Freedom is very heavily determined by economics.  When socialists (like Obama) want everyone to depend on the gov't for everything and have less and less control over their own money I don't see how you can claim otherwise unless you support the same (which is obvious you do).  Conservatism preaches accountability to the tax payer.  Our money should be used to support the causes the tax PAYER supports not the causes of the elite who want to dictate where and how our money is spent.  People like you only serve to destroy that accountability.  If you want to give more of your money to a wasteful and  gov't feel free but the whole idea behind a "free" country is that people like you shouldn't be able to pick-pocket the rest of us.

wonder how many times a day this guy says Lib or liberal?

[Brixtonbulldog]

wonder how many times a day this guy says Lib or liberal?

As many times as Obama has to hide his post campaign agenda for fear of showing his true nature.

[Brixtonbulldog]

wonder how many times a day this guy says Lib or liberal?

Or better yet as many times as you say we're melting down cause our side is losing yet I see you in a posting frenzy jumping to every thread with Osam.. er, Obamas name on it to defend his honor.

[Decker]

Typical liberal.  You label taxes "governmental assets" when the reality is that money is the taxpayers. It is GIVEN to the gov't (in theory).  You even try to contort the situation by calling it a "pay out" when a tax cut is simply taking LESS from the citizenry in the first place.

The gov in the US is The People.  The people have budgetary needs--bills to pay.  The people have a national interest in having those bills paid.

It's no wonder economic imbeciles like Reagan and Bush are elected and re-elected by people like you.  In your world, there is no responsibility for debt.  So the US ends up living like welfare queens on maxed out credit.  NOw is that prudent?  Is that wise?  Or is that simplistic head-in-the-sand selfishness?

Obama is an outright tax and spend lib.  You can bitch about my reasons for thinking that but it is painfully obvious.

Tax and spend v. borrow and spend.  Which one costs more?  Why it's borrow and spend and that is hallmark of the REagan/Bush model of economics.  That's horrible for America.

Freedom is very heavily determined by economics.  When socialists (like Obama) want everyone to depend on the gov't for everything and have less and less control over their own money I don't see how you can claim otherwise unless you support the same (which is obvious you do).  Conservatism preaches accountability to the tax payer.  Our money should be used to support the causes the tax PAYER supports not the causes of the elite who want to dictate where and how our money is spent.  People like you only serve to destroy that accountability.  If you want to give more of your money to a wasteful and  gov't feel free but the whole idea behind a "free" country is that people like you shouldn't be able to pick-pocket the rest of us.

I've never seen a case of projection as bad as yours.  The 'elite' you refer to are likely the elected politicians mandated by our constitution comprising a democratic republic...a democratic republic which serves THE PEOPLE.  So do you have a problem with America?  It sure looks like you do.

Conservatism is not concerned with accountability at all.  If by 'conservatism' you mean the last 30 or so years of republican economics.  Borrowing and spending the US into debt largely owned by the REd Chinese and Japanese is not responsible.  Trickle down economics is a free lunch....if it worked, which it doesn't.  If by 'accountability' you mean the politicians's fidelity to their constituency, then you shouldn't be complaining.  You got your fucking tax cuts, you got your foreign war expenditures, you got your big business bailouts....what the hell are you complaining about?  Just look at what your economic choices have wrought on this country.

And how do you respond to that recipe for failure?  Let's do it again with McCain!

[Soul Crusher]

The gov in the US is The People.  The people have budgetary needs--bills to pay.  The people have a national interest in having those bills paid.

It's no wonder economic imbeciles like Reagan and Bush are elected and re-elected by people like you.  In your world, there is no responsibility for debt.  So the US ends up living like welfare queens on maxed out credit.  NOw is that prudent?  Is that wise?  Or is that simplistic head-in-the-sand selfishness?
Tax and spend v. borrow and spend.  Which one costs more?  Why it's borrow and spend and that is hallmark of the REagan/Bush model of economics.  That's horrible for America.
I've never seen a case of projection as bad as yours.  The 'elite' you refer to are likely the elected politicians mandated by our constitution comprising a democratic republic...a democratic republic which serves THE PEOPLE.  So do you have a problem with America?  It sure looks like you do.

Conservatism is not concerned with accountability at all.  If by 'conservatism' you mean the last 30 or so years of republican economics.  Borrowing and spending the US into debt largely owned by the REd Chinese and Japanese is not responsible.  Trickle down economics is a free lunch....if it worked, which it doesn't.  If by 'accountability' you mean the politicians's fidelity to their constituency, then you shouldn't be complaining.  You got your fucking tax cuts, you got your foreign war expenditures, you got your big business bailouts....what the hell are you complaining about?  Just look at what your economic choices have wrought on this country.

And how do you respond to that recipe for failure?  Let's do it again with McCain!

So why not take 100% of our pay and give it to the thives in govt and they can send the balance back?

What a joke.  When I go to work, its my money, not yours, not the govt, no some lazy slob whino on welfare.  The govt spends too much already and needs to be cut drastically across the board, in all departments, at every level.

If you want to move to a communist or socialist state, do yourself a favor and go move to Cuba or China.  We already pay insane taxes and you make it as though we are paying too little.

You are either a college kid or low income person yourself who does not pay alot in taxes to espouse such nonsense.

[y19mike77]

Funny, Luke put Iceland on the list.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-eu-iceland-meltdown,0,4444319.story

We are following in there footsteps

Can anyone disagree that our country has gotten worse and worse?

If you have not noticed the more liberal this country becomes it also gets worse.

Hmmmmm I would have to say the 2 go hand and hand....

[y19mike77]

Obama policies are nothing more than huge increases in the size and power of the federal government. these policies are going to result in slower economic growth, higher taxes and a much higher cost of living for everyone.

[Decker]

So why not take 100% of our pay and give it to the thives in govt and they can send the balance back?

What a joke.  When I go to work, its my money, not yours, not the govt, no some lazy slob whino on welfare.  The govt spends too much already and needs to be cut drastically across the board, in all departments, at every level.

If you want to move to a communist or socialist state, do yourself a favor and go move to Cuba or China.  We already pay insane taxes and you make it as though we are paying too little.

You are either a college kid or low income person yourself who does not pay alot in taxes to espouse such nonsense.

We don't have to approach this topic with manic swings of having 100% income tax rate.  That illustrates nothing.

The price of admission to the US is tax dollars based on the ability to pay.  You want in, you pay.

Since our income tax is based on an ability to pay, I want the rich paying more.  I also want the estate tax reinstituted.  

We have bills to pay and you don't like that.  Who does?  This is what separates the responsible people from the borrow-n-spenders.

We're in this mess b/c of spending and debt.  We have debt for the wrong reasons:  bridges to nowhere, an insane military budget, wars of choice and bailouts.  The spending must be reigned in and directed towards more constructive ends.

Debt for the right reasons is fine b/c it pays off dividends in the end--infrastructure, education etc.

[Slapper]

[...]The rich don't "hoard", they make sound economic decisions while the poor make POOR economic decisions.[...]

You have to have some of the biggest balls in the history of ball-making to say something like this. Although I must admit it astonishes me every time I read it, it is a weapon in the arsenal of the ignorants: The poor are poor because they want to be poor.

I guess that peels away any ethics and removes any humane barriers that may pose a threat to the profit-at-all-costs crowd. Once you make such a stupid point I guess what follows is of the "the rich are rich because they want to be rich" caliber.

[Decker]

Obama policies are nothing more than huge increases in the size and power of the federal government. these policies are going to result in slower economic growth, higher taxes and a much higher cost of living for everyone.

We already have all those things thanks to Bush and McCain's economic approach.  You conjecture while I show you proof.

[Decker]

You have to have some of the biggest balls in the history of ball-making to say something like this. Although I must admit it astonishes me every time I read it, it is a weapon in the arsenal of the ignorants: The poor are poor because they want to be poor.

I guess that peels away any ethics and removes any humane barriers that may pose a threat to the profit-at-all-costs crowd.

His comment on the poor being poor b/c of bad choices just illustrates that he sees what he wants to see.  Life's as simple as we make it.

As for the rich hoarding money, they won't spend unless they have to or want to....there's a tremendous market for tax deferred vehicles to...hoard money. 

[y19mike77]

First and foremost I am not a Bush supporter or a McCain supporter.

I am against a racist anti American being the president.

Bush lost my support when he started pandering to the left, and became a lib.
Which happend towards the end of his first term.


As for McCain.... lol I have never liked him.

So you can say what you want about Bush economics. I will not try to defend him.
Or McCain for that matter.

If you compre the plans of McCain or Obama both lean toward socialism. Obama more so then McCain. They lead us down the same path. They are jus taking us there using to dif routes. The only diff is one, is faster then the other.

[y19mike77]

His comment on the poor being poor b/c of bad choices just illustrates that he sees what he wants to see.  Life's as simple as we make it.

As for the rich hoarding money, they won't spend unless they have to or want to....there's a tremendous market for tax deferred vehicles to...hoard money. 

So if it is not the poors fault that they are poor then whos fault is it?

Are you saying that rich people need to be forced to give up there money?

That they (or anyone else for that matter) should be told how and when to use there money.

 

[OzmO]

First and foremost I am not a Bush supporter or a McCain supporter.

I am against a racist anti American being the president.

Bush lost my support when he started pandering to the left, and became a lib.
Which happend towards the end of his first term.


As for McCain.... lol I have never liked him.

So you can say what you want about Bush economics. I will not try to defend him.
Or McCain for that matter.

If you compre the plans of McCain or Obama both lean toward socialism. Obama more so then McCain. They lead us down the same path. They are jus taking us there using to dif routes. The only diff is one, is faster then the other.

Sounds like a pretty bad future eh?   BUSH sucked, McCain Sucks, Obama sucks.

[OzmO]

So if it is not the poors fault that they are poor then whos fault is it?

Are you saying that rich people need to be forced to give up there money?

That they (or anyone else for that matter) should be told how and when to use there money.

 

That's the reality of taxation.   How does one escape taxation in the modern world?  Everyone is forced to give up money one way or another.

[Slapper]

His comment on the poor being poor b/c of bad choices just illustrates that he sees what he wants to see.  Life's as simple as we make it.

As for the rich hoarding money, they won't spend unless they have to or want to....there's a tremendous market for tax deferred vehicles to...hoard money. 

Honestly, someone who makes simplistic observations (of the enemy vs friend, friend or foe caliber) of a vastly chaotic system shouldn't even be read. To them wellfare is embodied in a perfectly capably Puerto Rican male having 50 kids in order not to have to work, and the like. This is exactly what prevents any legislation from even hinting at being somewhat people-friendly from being passed. They've embodied everything they hate into the "liberal" term, so everytime they call you "liberal," consider yourself insulted.

[Slapper]

So if it is not the poors fault that they are poor then whos fault is it?[...]

The circumstances maybe?

It amazes me that when talking about the crisis and the 850 billion dollar bail out package noone wants to hear any criticism about those who put us ALL in this economic conumdrum but yet want to concentrate on the ways to solve the problem.

Yet, when it comes to a single mother who had a child in her teens and could not make it to college... all of a sudden there are NO FUCKING SOLUTIONS.

Well, yes, there is a solution: You fucked and got pregnant when you were 18 and now your poor because of it. It's your problem. Well, if we're gonna use that type of save-the-profit-foundation rhetoric then let's tell the CEOs and the VPs: You made the wrong decisions while you were the capi di tuti capi now ITS YOUR FUCKING PROBLEM. FIX IT!!

[Soul Crusher]

We don't have to approach this topic with manic swings of having 100% income tax rate.  That illustrates nothing.

The price of admission to the US is tax dollars based on the ability to pay.  You want in, you pay.

Since our income tax is based on an ability to pay, I want the rich paying more.  I also want the estate tax reinstituted.  

We have bills to pay and you don't like that.  Who does?  This is what separates the responsible people from the borrow-n-spenders.

We're in this mess b/c of spending and debt.  We have debt for the wrong reasons:  bridges to nowhere, an insane military budget, wars of choice and bailouts.  The spending must be reigned in and directed towards more constructive ends.

Debt for the right reasons is fine b/c it pays off dividends in the end--infrastructure, education etc.

Its not your money you greedy slob.  There should be a across the board flat tax the same for everyone.  The more you make the more you pay period.  no deductions, no credits,.  10 or 15% of your income and thats it.

The same govt that can run the Iraq War or Katrina, cant run health care or anything else for that matter.

The govt caused this financial mess by its stupid social engineering and is only going to make matters far worse by taxing the people who create jobs more.

You liberals amaze me.  You complain about big business, want to punish them, etc etc, yet beg for more jobs and expect them to pay you more.  Well how can they more in salaries and wages if you want to take more of their income away?.   

[Slapper]

[...]You liberals amaze me.  You complain about big business, want to punish them[...]

Dude, who said anything about "punishing" Big Business?? All Big Business is being asked to do is to stay out of politics, pay its fair share in taxes and clean up its own mess. Is that "punishing" Big Business??