Author Topic: 3 worst Presidents in History...  (Read 22803 times)

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #200 on: December 03, 2008, 08:35:13 PM »
What are you talking about?

Read the fucking reports filed by Blix you pinhead. 

I made the statement to prove the matter that you were wrong about who was choosing the inspection spots and not to assert the truth of the matter stated.

But you are grasping for any straw you can b/c I've thoroughly and completely dominated this discussion.  I don't usually say things like that but you have to wake up to your domination.
I laugh at people like you.

Why?

...if you're not with me, then you're against me....nyaahhhhh

Reality, facts and now wikipedia slants left.  Do you realize how sad your position looks?

Do you even pretend to aspire to any kind of even-handed approach to facts?

Do you have the ability to act like a man and admit when you're wrong?
The no fly zones have no legal authority....just like the Iraq invasion.
 


When did I make any claims are to who was choosing the inspection sites!?!?  I said Saddam had a pattern of denying access at his choosing and at random.  Stop making shit up, pathetic liberal!

"Oh look how mad he gets when facts from wiki are used against him!!!" lol

I don't think you've dominated anything your entire life.. probably why you have proven yourself ignorant and cowardly throughout this thread.  This post and most of your others are testament to that fact.  You ignore that which creams your arguments and drone on the same rhetoric over and over.  Not much insight, substance, or critical thinking.. just liberal talking points repeated again, and again, and again, and again.  Epic fail.

And now no-fly zones don't have authority?!?!?  So I guess every other condition imposed on every other country that has ever signed terms of surrender throughout the ENTIRE HISTORY OF MANKIND is illegal too, right?!?  ah HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH AHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Jesus fuckin christ, dude ;D  You're a joke. 

PS.  Still haven't gotten around to answering my questions I see.  Well you haven't been able to confront anything I've posted yet so why should I ever expect it?  ::)

Decker

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #201 on: December 04, 2008, 06:35:25 AM »
When did I make any claims are to who was choosing the inspection sites!?!?  I said Saddam had a pattern of denying access at his choosing and at random.  Stop making shit up, pathetic liberal!
You've internalized a propagandistic narrative thrust on you by Bush and company.  Hussein had weapons but he was moving them!..you say.

The Iraq Survey Groups own report denies your fantastic claim.  Yet here you are pushing it b/c it's a piece of fantasy that fits your preconceived narrative for a righteous war.

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....

I don't think you've dominated anything your entire life.. probably why you have proven yourself ignorant and cowardly throughout this thread.  This post and most of your others are testament to that fact.  You ignore that which creams your arguments and drone on the same rhetoric over and over.  Not much insight, substance, or critical thinking.. just liberal talking points repeated again, and again, and again, and again.  Epic fail.
It's 'testimony' and not 'testament'.  Let's see, you say that these are liberal talking points:

*Bush's own statements of lies
*Bush's doctored white papers re Iraq's WMDs
*Blix's testimony re WMD inspection findings
*Iraq Survey Group's conclusions
*David Kay's statements on Iraq's alleged WMDs
*UN Resolutions (including 1441) flat out requiring the Security Council's consent to attack Iraq

How are those things liberal talking points?

Are those things anything like your narrative that Hussein moved the WMDs and hid them up his ass?

I'll help you on that one:  No!  I'm using evidence and facts and you are using propaganda.  Unsupported talking points.

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And now no-fly zones don't have authority?!?!?  So I guess every other condition imposed on every other country that has ever signed terms of surrender throughout the ENTIRE HISTORY OF MANKIND is illegal too, right?!?  ah HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH AHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Jesus fuckin christ, dude ;D  You're a joke. 
You're funny.  Show me the legal authority for the establishment of no-fly zones in Iraq and I'll admit I'm wrong.

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PS.  Still haven't gotten around to answering my questions I see.  Well you haven't been able to confront anything I've posted yet so why should I ever expect it?  ::)
What the fuck question are you talking about?

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #202 on: December 04, 2008, 06:06:30 PM »
The Iraq survey group didn't get to search the countries that the weapons were moved to why would I expect them to come to that conclusion?  On that note David Kay apparently felt as Bush did about Iraq: Kay told the SASC during his oral report the following, though: "Based on the intelligence that existed, I think it was reasonable to reach the conclusion that Iraq posed an imminent threat. Now that you know reality on the ground as opposed to what you estimated before, you may reach a different conclusion-—although I must say I actually think what we learned during the inspection made Iraq a more dangerous place, potentially, than, in fact, we thought it was even before the war."

Also: By 2000-2001, Saddam had managed to mitigate many of the effects of sanctions and undermine their international support.

(so where were all those horrible conditions from the embargo if saddam was rendering them useless?)

And: Saddam wanted to recreate Iraq’s WMD capability, after sanctions were removed and Iraq’s economy stabilized. Saddam aspired to develop a nuclear capability—in an incremental fashion, irrespective of international pressure and the resulting economic risks—but he intended to focus on ballistic missile and tactical chemical warfare (CW) capabilities.

Guess it's not a fantasy. I would love to see the look on your face when you realize your arguments fail more than the cancerous UAW if GM and Daimler Chrysler go under.  ;D

And for the third time...


Answer me honestly.. How many of those 100,000 took up arms against allied forces?  And how many of those that didn't take up arms against us were shot, stabbed, or obliterated by allied forces?  Please answer this.

Decker

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #203 on: December 05, 2008, 06:39:38 AM »
The Iraq survey group didn't get to search the countries that the weapons were moved to why would I expect them to come to that conclusion? 
You do realize that your argument of "he moved the WMDs" has the same punch as OJ looking for the 'real' killers.  It's a fantasy.

What makes you think that WMD inspectors can't determine if WMDs were moved from an inspected area? 

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On that note David Kay apparently felt as Bush did about Iraq: Kay told the SASC during his oral report the following, though: "Based on the intelligence that existed, I think it was reasonable to reach the conclusion that Iraq posed an imminent threat. Now that you know reality on the ground as opposed to what you estimated before, you may reach a different conclusion-—although I must say I actually think what we learned during the inspection made Iraq a more dangerous place, potentially, than, in fact, we thought it was even before the war."
The difference being that Kay played the good soldier, just like you are and just like Congress did, and went along with Bush's lies and suppositions however, when faced with the obvious facts yielded by the inspections, he admitted IRaq was disarmed.

Bush is still claiming that Hussein wouldn't let the inspectors into Iraq.

Now which person is still lying?

And since the inspections were turning up only minor violations, why did Bush order the invasion to disarm a disarmed country?

Why didn't Bush let the inspectors finish their inspections--what was the hurry?

If you answer one question this year, answer me that one.

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Also: By 2000-2001, Saddam had managed to mitigate many of the effects of sanctions and undermine their international support.

(so where were all those horrible conditions from the embargo if saddam was rendering them useless?)
How did he mitigate the effects of the sanctions?

Did he bring the 1-2 million dead back to life?

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And: Saddam wanted to recreate Iraq’s WMD capability, after sanctions were removed and Iraq’s economy stabilized. Saddam aspired to develop a nuclear capability—in an incremental fashion, irrespective of international pressure and the resulting economic risks—but he intended to focus on ballistic missile and tactical chemical warfare (CW) capabilities.
Who are you, Kreskin?  You're a mindreader now?  Hussein was thinking X.

It's too bad that the legal inspections were based on actual WMDs and not divining the intentions of Saddam Hussein.

Can you tell me what I'm thinking right now?

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Guess it's not a fantasy. I would love to see the look on your face when you realize your arguments fail more than the cancerous UAW if GM and Daimler Chrysler go under.  ;D
Typical BB - no facts, just stories and mindreading and cheerleading.

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And for the third time...
I've proven you wrong much more than 3 times.  You can't even get that right.


Brixtonbulldog

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #204 on: December 06, 2008, 09:23:16 PM »
You do realize that your argument of "he moved the WMDs" has the same punch as OJ looking for the 'real' killers.  It's a fantasy.

What makes you think that WMD inspectors can't determine if WMDs were moved from an inspected area? 
The difference being that Kay played the good soldier, just like you are and just like Congress did, and went along with Bush's lies and suppositions however, when faced with the obvious facts yielded by the inspections, he admitted IRaq was disarmed.

Bush is still claiming that Hussein wouldn't let the inspectors into Iraq.

Now which person is still lying?

And since the inspections were turning up only minor violations, why did Bush order the invasion to disarm a disarmed country?

Why didn't Bush let the inspectors finish their inspections--what was the hurry?

If you answer one question this year, answer me that one.
How did he mitigate the effects of the sanctions?

Did he bring the 1-2 million dead back to life?
Who are you, Kreskin?  You're a mindreader now?  Hussein was thinking X.

It's too bad that the legal inspections were based on actual WMDs and not divining the intentions of Saddam Hussein.

Can you tell me what I'm thinking right now?
Typical BB - no facts, just stories and mindreading and cheerleading.
I've proven you wrong much more than 3 times.  You can't even get that right.



Weapons inspectors not having access to Syria and Jordan for one, smart guy.  Kreskin?!?  The quote was also from wiki, you retard!  Try reading.  Repeat until you get it.

If you can find the courage to answer either of the questions I've now asked you THREE FUCKING TIMES than you might have a let to stand on.

You're right.  You have proven three things.
-You're a moron.
-You are too biased to be either objective or realistic.
-Your vendetta towards Bush is a losers cause which you enthusiastically use to push your baseless and absurd agenda, on GETBIG, lol.  What a fucking loser. ;D

Decker

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #205 on: December 07, 2008, 08:47:19 AM »
Weapons inspectors not having access to Syria and Jordan for one, smart guy.  Kreskin?!?  The quote was also from wiki, you retard!  Try reading.  Repeat until you get it.

If you can find the courage to answer either of the questions I've now asked you THREE FUCKING TIMES than you might have a let to stand on.

You're right.  You have proven three things.
-You're a moron.
-You are too biased to be either objective or realistic.
-Your vendetta towards Bush is a losers cause which you enthusiastically use to push your baseless and absurd agenda, on GETBIG, lol.  What a fucking loser. ;D
You are a coward.  Rather than face the facts as they are, you hide behind your discredited propagandistic narratives.

You are a coward b/c you cannot admit you're wrong.

Why not have WMD inspectors look on mars too for your missing WMDs?  Or were the weapons spirited away on the backs of unicorns to Middle Earth?



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Answer this question:  And since the inspections were turning up only minor violations, why did Bush order the invasion to disarm a disarmed country?

Why didn't Bush let the inspectors finish their inspections--what was the hurry?


I don't think you have the balls to answer that.

Spare the GB public your rantings about Syria and Jordan and answer the question.  (Otherwise I'll have to drop you and your nonsensical response---Bush attacked Iraq b/c Jordan and Syria had the WMDS...duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh)

What's your fuckin problem Jack?  What is this question you've asked 3 time?

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #206 on: December 07, 2008, 08:57:24 AM »
You are a coward.  Rather than face the facts as they are, you hide behind your discredited propagandistic narratives.

You are a coward b/c you cannot admit you're wrong.

Why not have WMD inspectors look on mars too for your missing WMDs?  Or were the weapons spirited away on the backs of unicorns to Middle Earth?

I don't think you have the balls to answer that.

Spare the GB public your rantings about Syria and Jordan and answer the question.  (Otherwise I'll have to drop you and your nonsensical response---Bush attacked Iraq b/c Jordan and Syria had the WMDS...duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh)

What's your fuckin problem Jack?  What is this question you've asked 3 time?


The hypocrisy never stops.  You have run away from every fact I've given.  You have refused to admit your baseless hatred and absurd crusade.  And you call me a coward?  You may divert with (bad) jokes all you want.  The fact is there is still a lot of classified regarding what went on leading up to the war.  Wouldn't matter, though.. people like you don't let go of your concocted fantasies no matter what's put in front of you.

Pot meet kettle. ;D

4th time:


Answer me honestly.. How many of those 100,000 took up arms against allied forces?  And how many of those that didn't take up arms against us were shot, stabbed, or obliterated by allied forces?  Please answer this.

Decker

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #207 on: December 07, 2008, 09:17:28 AM »

The hypocrisy never stops.  You have run away from every fact I've given.  You have refused to admit your baseless hatred and absurd crusade.  And you call me a coward?  You may divert with (bad) jokes all you want.  The fact is there is still a lot of classified regarding what went on leading up to the war.  Wouldn't matter, though.. people like you don't let go of your concocted fantasies no matter what's put in front of you.

Pot meet kettle. ;D

4th time:

Here comes the SECRET EVIDENCE that will make Hussein into a real threat to the USA.

More bullshit from a guy who lost every facet of this discussion.

Bush created a threat in Iraq where none existed.

Bush lied and manufactured 'proof' that a thirdworld shithole country was an imminent threat to the US"s very existence.

Bush ordered the deaths of 150,000 Iraqis as a means of disarming a disarmed country.

They didn't have the weapons, the WMD inspectors were showing that IRaq was disarmed and Bush ordered the invasion anyways.

Why?  If Syria or Jordan or Mars had the WMDs, as you allege, why didn't he deal with those country's directly?

Why?  B/c he and you are both lying to preserve your fallacious narrative that Iraq had WMDS and was a threat to the US.

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Answer me honestly.. How many of those 100,000 took up arms against allied forces?  And how many of those that didn't take up arms against us were shot, stabbed, or obliterated by allied forces?  Please answer this.
I hope all of the 150,000 to six million killed took up arms against the invading coalition forces.  The Iraqi citizens were in the right and we were in the wrong.  They were acting in self defense and we became murderers.

That's a hard pill to swallow but it's the truth.

And as for exact proof of whether the allied(sic) forces actually killed any Iraqis, I say to you, "Go fuck yourself."

But for Bush's order to attack Iraq, those Iraqis are still alive today.

They didn't deserve death, torture and the dissolution of their country...not our country,  their country.

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #208 on: December 07, 2008, 10:05:45 AM »

Bush ordered the deaths of 150,000 Iraqis as a means of disarming a disarmed country.

And as for exact proof of whether the allied(sic) forces actually killed any Iraqis, I say to you, "Go fuck yourself."


This is why you will lose every debate you engage in and no one will take you seriously.  When you speak you spout nonsense like this and use the same idiot response to effectively NOT answer questions.  Combine that with no understanding of the military, or national security and you have another raving liberal who will spend the rest of his life crying about things he won't understand on Getbig and spewing baseless hatred for those he consistently blames for everything under the sun. 

Those Iraqis WE slaughtered we're our enemies and acted as such by blowing up allied troops and shooting at convoys and sniping soldiers at checkpoints, etc.  We're not talking about Abdul the baker doing his patriotic duty to defend his homeland here, numnuts.

Every allied nation came to the same conclusions the US did.. he had weapons, he was pursuing developing more, and he planned on using them against his own people and his enemies within reach.  Even without having a clearance it is easy to determine what he did have was moved to Syria and Jordan just prior to allied forces invading.  That doesn't mean we somehow thought we were going after those countries by way of Iraq so I don't know how you're not getting this.  Read slowly.. Being moved at the last second by Saddam before an invasion isn't the same as those countries having them in the first place.

Bush is no more guilty than our allies and every member of congress who was privy to the same intel and VOTED for the war.  Intel whose capabilities were undercut by another liberal, Clinton, who gutted the CIA, DIA, NSA, etc.  No wonder there was an intel failure.  You voted for these people, not me.

Iraq was a threat to every one of his declared enemies, especially the surrounding nations.  He routinely fired on allied forces on patrols in existence since his generals signed the terms of surrender in 91.  He routinely violated UN resolutions which were supposed to have consequences.  Of course, the UN did nothing.  What a surprise.

We don't murder or torture civilians, something Saddam was notorious for.  The world and Iraq, especially, are better off with him gone.  We've not only won the war but we've suffered the fewest casualties of any war in American history.

But in your world the facts don't matter.  Saddam was harmless and innocent of any wrongdoing.  Bush is solely responsible for the the war no matter who stood with him or bears responsibility and the US murdered and tortured only innocent Iraqis on their way to prayer, right? 

The Luke

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #209 on: December 07, 2008, 01:01:41 PM »
This is why you will lose every debate you engage in and no one will take you seriously.  When you speak you spout nonsense like this and use the same idiot response to effectively NOT answer questions. 

...on the contrary, Decker's posts are both informative and intelligent.

The only posters on this board who take exception to his posts are the braindead rednecks who would gladly vote for Bill O'Reilly; Sarah Palin or perhaps more ironically Steven Colbert.

Decker's a good guy... you guys just hate him 'cos he's smart and understands stuff.


The Luke

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #210 on: December 07, 2008, 01:07:03 PM »
...on the contrary, Decker's posts are both informative and intelligent.

The only posters on this board who take exception to his posts are the braindead rednecks who would gladly vote for Bill O'Reilly; Sarah Palin or perhaps more ironically Steven Colbert.

Decker's a good guy... you guys just hate him 'cos he's smart and understands stuff.


The Luke

Oh look, another moron.

Yep, every conservative is a redneck.  Sure ::)


The Luke

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #211 on: December 07, 2008, 01:22:05 PM »
Yep, every conservative is a redneck.  Sure ::)

...half your party supports a Palin 2012 presidential bid. Need I say more?


The Luke


Dan-O

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #212 on: December 07, 2008, 01:22:49 PM »
Oh look, another moron.

Yep, every conservative is a redneck.  Sure ::)



Oh come on, you know it's true.  And every liberal is a highly educated intellectual.

Here's the proof:


Brixtonbulldog

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #213 on: December 07, 2008, 03:50:46 PM »
...half your party supports a Palin 2012 presidential bid. Need I say more?

The Luke



I also support Palin and I am not a redneck.  Our vp pick was more qualified to be prez than Obama himself so it's certainly a logical choice.


Oh come on, you know it's true.  And every liberal is a highly educated intellectual.

Here's the proof:



Thank you for proving me right..  again. ;D

tu_holmes

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #214 on: December 07, 2008, 04:05:58 PM »
I also support Palin and I am not a redneck.  Our vp pick was more qualified to be prez than Obama himself so it's certainly a logical choice.

That's ridiculous... She's a buffoon.

Sure, she is a governor... She is an idiot governor though.

Since her VP nomination, her approval rating in her OWN state has dropped... What does that tell you?

Decker

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #215 on: December 08, 2008, 06:45:29 AM »
This is why you will lose every debate you engage in and no one will take you seriously.  When you speak you spout nonsense like this and use the same idiot response to effectively NOT answer questions.  Combine that with no understanding of the military, or national security and you have another raving liberal who will spend the rest of his life crying about things he won't understand on Getbig and spewing baseless hatred for those he consistently blames for everything under the sun. 

Those Iraqis WE slaughtered we're our enemies and acted as such by blowing up allied troops and shooting at convoys and sniping soldiers at checkpoints, etc.  We're not talking about Abdul the baker doing his patriotic duty to defend his homeland here, numnuts.
The Iraqis had a much more viable claim to acting in self defense than we did when they defended themselves from the illegal invasion. 

Do you see that?

Do you understand what justifiable self defense is?

A attacks B with no legal justification and B exerts force to defend himself from A's attack.

See, A is America and B is Iraq (I should have used an "I", I don't want that tripping you up). 

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Every allied nation came to the same conclusions the US did.. he had weapons, he was pursuing developing more, and he planned on using them against his own people and his enemies within reach.  Even without having a clearance it is easy to determine what he did have was moved to Syria and Jordan just prior to allied forces invading.  That doesn't mean we somehow thought we were going after those countries by way of Iraq so I don't know how you're not getting this.  Read slowly.. Being moved at the last second by Saddam before an invasion isn't the same as those countries having them in the first place.
What do you think of these ideas:

*You are either with us or against us.

*The UN does not dictate how the US can defend itself.

Here's where your bullshit theory collapses.  If Hussein moved WMDs to Syria and Jordan, why didn't Bush order the invasion of those countries?

If Syria and Jordan are harboring Hussein's WMDs, which could be used against the US at any time, why didn't Bush go after them?  I mean it's a textbook definition of 'accomplice.'

If Syria and Jordan were 'with' Hussein, then they were by definition, against us.

How do you justify that?

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Bush is no more guilty than our allies and every member of congress who was privy to the same intel and VOTED for the war.  Intel whose capabilities were undercut by another liberal, Clinton, who gutted the CIA, DIA, NSA, etc.  No wonder there was an intel failure.  You voted for these people, not me.
Nobody but Bush ordered the invasion of Iraq COUNTER TO THE INSPECTION FINDINGS OF THE INSPECTORS.  Bush stated he would base his decision to attack the country on the latest intel.  The latest intel showed Iraq had no WMDs and was not threat to the US.  I can show you those documents.  I can show you Bush's statements.  I can also show you Bush's lies and the doctored white paper.

So your 'faulty intel' excuse crumbles.  You would be correct if the 10 year old intel governed the matter.  But it didn't.  That was not the latest best evidence of Iraq's situation.

Do you see that now?

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Iraq was a threat to every one of his declared enemies, especially the surrounding nations.  He routinely fired on allied forces on patrols in existence since his generals signed the terms of surrender in 91.  He routinely violated UN resolutions which were supposed to have consequences.  Of course, the UN did nothing.  What a surprise.
How was Iraq a threat to the US if it had no WMDs?  The latest intel showed that Iraq had no WMDS.

Where does this threat come from?  I've already dispatched your excuse that Hussein was shooting at planes.

And my oh my, isn't that a justification for slaughtering 150,000 human beings anyways?

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We don't murder or torture civilians, something Saddam was notorious for.  The world and Iraq, especially, are better off with him gone.  We've not only won the war but we've suffered the fewest casualties of any war in American history.
We did torture under Bush.  That fact is incontrovertible.

Still, the official U.S. denials of torture continued until earlier this month when Bush acknowledged in an interview with ABC-TV that he knew about and approved “enhanced interrogation” of detainees, including “waterboarding” or simulated drowning.

“As a matter of fact,” Bush added, “I told the country we did that. And I told them it was legal. We had legal opinions that enabled us to do it.” The president added, “I didn’t have any problems at all trying to find out what Khalid Sheik Mohammed knew.”

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But in your world the facts don't matter.  Saddam was harmless and innocent of any wrongdoing.  Bush is solely responsible for the the war no matter who stood with him or bears responsibility and the US murdered and tortured only innocent Iraqis on their way to prayer, right? 
You provide no facts.  You provide jaded conclusions without factual support--'the wmds were transported away', 'even if Bush is responsible, so are a lot of other people...

Only Bush as commander in chief could have ordered the attack of Iraq.

The latest intel showed Iraq was not a threat nor did it have WMDs.

Bush ordered the attack anyways killing over 150,000 innocent people.

He's a mass murderer and you support him fully.

Decker

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #216 on: December 08, 2008, 06:46:36 AM »
...on the contrary, Decker's posts are both informative and intelligent.

The only posters on this board who take exception to his posts are the braindead rednecks who would gladly vote for Bill O'Reilly; Sarah Palin or perhaps more ironically Steven Colbert.

Decker's a good guy... you guys just hate him 'cos he's smart and understands stuff.


The Luke
Thank you.  I enjoy your posts as well. 

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #217 on: December 08, 2008, 05:14:10 PM »
That's ridiculous... She's a buffoon.

Sure, she is a governor... She is an idiot governor though.

Since her VP nomination, her approval rating in her OWN state has dropped... What does that tell you?

She's being maligned 24/7 by the media.  They did the same thing to Bush and will do so to every prominent conservative.  Fool buy into it, period.

tu_holmes

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #218 on: December 08, 2008, 05:16:39 PM »
She's being maligned 24/7 by the media.  They did the same thing to Bush and will do so to every prominent conservative.  Fool buy into it, period.

Come on... You really believe that?

You really are brain washed by the Neo-Cons if you do.

I watched 1 debate with her and from that debate, all true independent thinkers realized she had no business being at the national stage.

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #219 on: December 08, 2008, 06:14:29 PM »
The Iraqis had a much more viable claim to acting in self defense than we did when they defended themselves from the illegal invasion. 

Do you see that?

Do you understand what justifiable self defense is?

A attacks B with no legal justification and B exerts force to defend himself from A's attack.

See, A is America and B is Iraq (I should have used an "I", I don't want that tripping you up). 
What do you think of these ideas:

*You are either with us or against us.

*The UN does not dictate how the US can defend itself.

Here's where your bullshit theory collapses.  If Hussein moved WMDs to Syria and Jordan, why didn't Bush order the invasion of those countries?

If Syria and Jordan are harboring Hussein's WMDs, which could be used against the US at any time, why didn't Bush go after them?  I mean it's a textbook definition of 'accomplice.'

If Syria and Jordan were 'with' Hussein, then they were by definition, against us.

How do you justify that?
Nobody but Bush ordered the invasion of Iraq COUNTER TO THE INSPECTION FINDINGS OF THE INSPECTORS.  Bush stated he would base his decision to attack the country on the latest intel.  The latest intel showed Iraq had no WMDs and was not threat to the US.  I can show you those documents.  I can show you Bush's statements.  I can also show you Bush's lies and the doctored white paper.

So your 'faulty intel' excuse crumbles.  You would be correct if the 10 year old intel governed the matter.  But it didn't.  That was not the latest best evidence of Iraq's situation.

Do you see that now?
How was Iraq a threat to the US if it had no WMDs?  The latest intel showed that Iraq had no WMDS.

Where does this threat come from?  I've already dispatched your excuse that Hussein was shooting at planes.

And my oh my, isn't that a justification for slaughtering 150,000 human beings anyways?
We did torture under Bush.  That fact is incontrovertible.

Still, the official U.S. denials of torture continued until earlier this month when Bush acknowledged in an interview with ABC-TV that he knew about and approved “enhanced interrogation” of detainees, including “waterboarding” or simulated drowning.

“As a matter of fact,” Bush added, “I told the country we did that. And I told them it was legal. We had legal opinions that enabled us to do it.” The president added, “I didn’t have any problems at all trying to find out what Khalid Sheik Mohammed knew.”
You provide no facts.  You provide jaded conclusions without factual support--'the wmds were transported away', 'even if Bush is responsible, so are a lot of other people...

Only Bush as commander in chief could have ordered the attack of Iraq.

The latest intel showed Iraq was not a threat nor did it have WMDs.

Bush ordered the attack anyways killing over 150,000 innocent people.

He's a mass murderer and you support him fully.


Is that why our troops were welcomed to Baghdad?!?!?  Is that why 15 million voted in a free election?!?!?  Yes, I'm sure your average peace loving Iraqi absolutely hates our guts.

Getting at the weapons and waging war against two new fronts IN ADDITION TO Iraq itself is ludicrous.  We chose to strike at the heart of the problem in the first place.  If not, we would only expect more of the same.  Do you destroy an infection by treating symptoms or taking antibiotics?  If this war was so costly than surely even you can agree we could only afford to attack one front.  Syria may be a future issue itself.

I have given facts from wiki, a site you obviously trust, to show his aggression toward allied forces and terms violations.  And let's not forget all the facts from this gem: 

Quote from: Brixtonbulldog on November 04, 2008, 14:22:08
Every intelligence agency from US to Britain to Germany to France to .. I could go on forever.. thought Saddam had more WMDs than were found.  Saddam even admitted that after he destroyed or moved the bulk of what he had only a couple months before the invasion he aggressively played smoke and mirrors to make other countries think he did.

Oh look.. a fact!

Quote from: Brixtonbulldog on November 04, 2008, 16:36:59
He's a politician and he's not going to just read intelligence reports aloud to the country.  The Iraq war wasn't a mistake even though the media has made it seem so for 5 years.

Ooh.. a historical fact!

Quote from: Brixtonbulldog on November 04, 2008, 17:06:08
Violated the UN cease-fire 17 times = NOT in check

Playing shadow games with weapons inspectors for years = NOT in check

Torturing and murdering civilians by the thousands = NOT in check

Sponsoring Terrorism = NOT in check

The point was to keep him from becoming a problem, which he was continually for over 20 years.

Even more facts!! Holy cow!!! ;D

Quote from: Brixtonbulldog on November 05, 2008, 10:22:48
Still counting the insurgents with the civilians I'm sure.  Illegal my foot.

Hmm.. yep, that's a fact too.

Quote from: Brixtonbulldog on November 08, 2008, 13:46:15
Our enemy was communism than radical Islam.  I don't condone human rights abuses but we fight bigger problems first and one at a time.
In fact, your loony side should be jumping for joy we went to Iraq.  American soldiers have died and been wounded (since you hate the military and soldiers are somewhere between dog food and toilet water to you) and a murderous, fascist, torturous, and woman-hating regime has been brought to it's knees (not to mention they were all religious nuts and we all know how you feel about those religious types). ;D

More facts for ya!

Quote from: Brixtonbulldog on November 11, 2008, 12:35:17
Isn't it interesting that, for years, inspectors were randomly denied access and upon returning to the same sites hours/days later were then ALLOWED access?  I think even Decker could figure that one out.

Saddam hides weapons programs:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iraq/2003/10/iraq-031003-afps02.htm

See how many times Iraq fails to comply or cooperate:

http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/iraqchron

Oh, look at all those facts!!!!

Quote from: Brixtonbulldog on November 11, 2008, 21:12:41
You're right.  It says nothing of "stockpiles." Of course that doesn't matter much since it was obvious weapons programs were being pursued and Saddam continually displayed a pattern of deception.  Saddam fought inspectors every step of the way until he was FORCED to comply.  Even then he attempted to undermine their efforts.  Maybe you never asked yourself what that probably means but the rest of us have.

More facts..

Quote from: Brixtonbulldog on November 12, 2008, 10:27:08
Once again, the UN is an impotent organization.  Even with all their "efforts" Saddam still managed to destabilize the region and pursue weapons programs and torture and murder his own civilians etc, etc.
Iraqis dies because one element chose to attack US Soldiers in the form of insurgents, another element chose to use the war as a platform to launch civil violence and yet another were innocents in the crossfire.

And more..
Quote from: Brixtonbulldog on November 13, 2008, 08:32:06
It's been an unstable period for the last 5 years but that's to be expected with the transition.  Now that the violence is down 90% and we've pretty much won watch the levels of violence to go down even further.

This is getting repetitive..

Quote from: Brixtonbulldog on November 13, 2008, 16:13:45
Americans weren't going into houses shooting women and children yet Saddam proved to be fully willing to do that.

Bored..

Quote from: Brixtonbulldog on November 13, 2008, 16:34:32
BSaddam caused more of what you see in that picture and would have continued to do so if not for GWB.

Good job, moron. ;D

Now are you ready to start answering questions for the fourth time or are you going to keep cowering like a little bitch?

;D

Decker

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #220 on: December 09, 2008, 07:34:55 AM »
Is that why our troops were welcomed to Baghdad?!?!?  Is that why 15 million voted in a free election?!?!?  Yes, I'm sure your average peace loving Iraqi absolutely hates our guts.
I can see you take the bottom's view on relationships.  BB's approach:  Once your attacker has you beaten, on your knees, and subjugated, relax your sphincter muscle to make the experience more enjoyable. 

Your foolishness knows no bounds.  Your stats on voting mean nothing.  Your reference to the welcoming of the troops is also irrelevant.  Why even in this country we have sycophantic toadies that still support bush's mass murder of Iraqi citizens.  Some of these bumbling supporters claim that the murders were justifiable self defense.

Remember the toppling of the Saddam Hussein statue?  That brought a tear to my eye.  I mean the US went to all the trouble to fabricate the 'native groundswell' grateful for the US's murderous attack and yet the sham was exposed as a staged event.

Quote
The up close action video of the statue being destroyed is broadcast around the world as proof of a massive uprising. Still photos grabbed off of Reuters show a long-shot view of Fardus Square... it's empty save for the U.S. Marines, the International Press, and a small handful of Iraqis. There are no more than 200 people in the square at best. The Marines have the square sealed off and guarded by tanks. A U.S. mechanized vehicle is used to pull the statue of Saddam from it's base. The entire event is being hailed as an equivalent of the Berlin Wall falling... but even a quick glance of the long-shot photo shows something more akin to a carefully constructed media event tailored for the television cameras.
 
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2842.htm

Instead of being a man, you must play the recalcitrant child parroting the same tired debunked war propaganda.

Let's proceed.

Quote
Getting at the weapons and waging war against two new fronts IN ADDITION TO Iraq itself is ludicrous.  We chose to strike at the heart of the problem in the first place.  If not, we would only expect more of the same.  Do you destroy an infection by treating symptoms or taking antibiotics?  If this war was so costly than surely even you can agree we could only afford to attack one front.  Syria may be a future issue itself.
What problem did we strike at?  The inspectors couldn't find the WMDs.  The Iraqis never attacked us.

Where exactly is the problem?  What was the pressing problem? 

The inspections were happening.  Nobody was under threat of attack.  Where's the problem that needed fixing?

Take your time.  We'll wait.

Let me get this straight b/c you're all over the fucking map on this one.  WMDs in the wrong hands is the most pressing security issue of our generation.  BB and his SECRET INFORMATION 'confirms' that Syria and Jordan had Iraq's WMDs and PRESTO, it's just not economically feasible to go after them.

Everyone, read that paragraph again b/c it's beyond the pale of reasonable thought.

And now for some more fun!
Quote
Every intelligence agency from US to Britain to Germany to France to .. I could go on forever.. thought Saddam had more WMDs than were found.  Saddam even admitted that after he destroyed or moved the bulk of what he had only a couple months before the invasion he aggressively played smoke and mirrors to make other countries think he did.

Oh look.. a fact!
Your fact is irrelevant.  Why?  B/c the best intel re Iraq's alleged WMDs was the findings of the Inspectors ON THE GROUND IN IRAQ SCOURING THE COUNTRY WITH UNANNOUNCED INSPECTIONS.

Your evidence was 10 years old.  No good.

And now to destroy the "everyone thought Iraq had WMDs" myth. 

Quote
“Everybody” did not “know” Saddam had WMD ready to use. The WMD America helped Saddam to acquire had long-since been destroyed, as the Hussein Kamel debriefing showed eight years earlier (and as was known to the CIA). Most of the rest of the intelligence had collapsed or was collapsing by early 2003, and all of these countries and the UN knew that and warned US officials about it. And the UK? That’s funny, Tony Blair’s own intel-PR shop had created the famous “WMD attack in 45 minutes”, and MI6 had cribbed a supposed fresh intelligence assessment on Iraq WMD directly off of the internet from a decade-old graduate student's paper.

It became known that the defectors and suppliers of the intelligence were frauds often turned out by Ahmed Chalabi’s Iraqi National Congress, like Khidir Hamza, the person who was the basis for 1998 stories like “Iraqi Work Toward A-Bomb Reported”; and “Curveball”, the defector who formed the basis for scare-mongering stories about “Winnebagoes of Death” — mobile bioweapons labs — described extensively here in Deep Blade Journal.
What surprise!  BB fell for more propaganda.  You are the biggest cheerleader I have ever seen.

Now read this carefully:

Quote
The trigger for military action preferred by the British government, other allies, and at least some segments of the Bush administration, was a second U.N. resolution that would authorize an armed response. Other key U.N. Security Council members - including France, Germany, and Russia - argued that the inspections were working and that the inspectors should be allowed to continue. When it became apparent that the Council would not approve a second resolution, the United States and Britain terminated their attempts to obtain it. Instead, they, along with other allies, launched Operation Iraqi Freedom on March 19, 2003 - a military campaign that quickly brought about the end of Saddam Hussein's regime and ultimately resulted in his capture.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB80/
How's the "everyone believed Iraq had WMDs" argument working for you? 

I just destroyed your fallacy.  Who cares about 10 year old intel?  I'll tell you:  Sycophantic toads like BB use 10 year old intel and myths to show that the murderous Iraqi disaster was not only necessary but good too.

The rest of your 'facts' in the section you quoted are not relevant to Bush's mass murder are they.


Quote
I have given facts from wiki, a site you obviously trust, to show his aggression toward allied forces and terms violations.  And let's not forget all the facts from this gem: 


;D
I tire of slapping you around.  But let's continue.  Do you even know what a fact is?  If Satan or better yet, the ACLU told you a fact would you believe him/it?

Quote
Now are you ready to start answering questions for the fourth time or are you going to keep cowering like a little bitch?
What shock.  You have the reading comprehension of Bush.

You have nowhere left to run so you repeat a question I've answered.  Do you think repeating answered questions makes you look like some foppish Bill Oreilly pretender asking the 'hard' questions.

Here's your oft-answered question:
Quote
Answer me honestly.. How many of those 100,000 took up arms against allied forces? 
It was within the legal right of the Iraqis to defend themselves from the illegal invasion of their homeland by Coalition forces ordered to attack by the mass murderer George W. Bush.

Quote
And how many of those that didn't take up arms against us were shot, stabbed, or obliterated by allied forces?  Please answer this.
Bush is responsible for ALL THE DEATHS that resulted from the attack.  But for the attack ordered by the mass murderer Bush, those Iraqis are still alive.

But that's a mildly complex response.  So, as a matter of course, it went right over your head...for the 4th time.

Quote
An estimated 151,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed in the violence that has engulfed the country from the time of the US-led invasion until June 2006, according to the latest and largest study of deaths officially accepted by the Iraqi government.

The figures come from a household survey carried out by the World Health Organisation and the Iraqi health ministry.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jan/10/iraq.iraqtimeline

Here're the death numbers of Iraqis murdered by Coalition forces from JUST the initial invasion:

For the major combat phase of the war from March–April 2003, Abu Dhabi TV reported on April 8, 2003 that Iraqi sources had claimed that 1,252 civilians had been killed and 5,103 had been wounded. The Iraq Body Count project, incorporating subsequent reports, has reported that by the end of the major combat phase up to April 30, 2003, 7,299 civilians had been killed, primarily by US air and ground forces.[62]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#Iraqi_civilian_casualties

Is that enough death for you?  I mean do you feel better about yourself now that you know this?

By the way, you still haven't shown the legal authority for the 'no-fly' zones.

We're waiting.

I'm also waiting for you to show everyone where the UN Security Council gave Bush the authorization to invade Iraq.





Brixtonbulldog

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #221 on: December 14, 2008, 11:06:03 AM »
I can see you take the bottom's view on relationships.  BB's approach:  Once your attacker has you beaten, on your knees, and subjugated, relax your sphincter muscle to make the experience more enjoyable. 

Your foolishness knows no bounds.  Your stats on voting mean nothing.  Your reference to the welcoming of the troops is also irrelevant.  Why even in this country we have sycophantic toadies that still support bush's mass murder of Iraqi citizens.  Some of these bumbling supporters claim that the murders were justifiable self defense.

Remember the toppling of the Saddam Hussein statue?  That brought a tear to my eye.  I mean the US went to all the trouble to fabricate the 'native groundswell' grateful for the US's murderous attack and yet the sham was exposed as a staged event.
 
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2842.htm

Instead of being a man, you must play the recalcitrant child parroting the same tired debunked war propaganda.

Let's proceed.
What problem did we strike at?  The inspectors couldn't find the WMDs.  The Iraqis never attacked us.

Where exactly is the problem?  What was the pressing problem? 

The inspections were happening.  Nobody was under threat of attack.  Where's the problem that needed fixing?

Take your time.  We'll wait.

Let me get this straight b/c you're all over the fucking map on this one.  WMDs in the wrong hands is the most pressing security issue of our generation.  BB and his SECRET INFORMATION 'confirms' that Syria and Jordan had Iraq's WMDs and PRESTO, it's just not economically feasible to go after them.

Everyone, read that paragraph again b/c it's beyond the pale of reasonable thought.

And now for some more fun!Your fact is irrelevant.  Why?  B/c the best intel re Iraq's alleged WMDs was the findings of the Inspectors ON THE GROUND IN IRAQ SCOURING THE COUNTRY WITH UNANNOUNCED INSPECTIONS.

Your evidence was 10 years old.  No good.

And now to destroy the "everyone thought Iraq had WMDs" myth. 
What surprise!  BB fell for more propaganda.  You are the biggest cheerleader I have ever seen.

Now read this carefully:
How's the "everyone believed Iraq had WMDs" argument working for you? 

I just destroyed your fallacy.  Who cares about 10 year old intel?  I'll tell you:  Sycophantic toads like BB use 10 year old intel and myths to show that the murderous Iraqi disaster was not only necessary but good too.

The rest of your 'facts' in the section you quoted are not relevant to Bush's mass murder are they.

I tire of slapping you around.  But let's continue.  Do you even know what a fact is?  If Satan or better yet, the ACLU told you a fact would you believe him/it?
What shock.  You have the reading comprehension of Bush.

You have nowhere left to run so you repeat a question I've answered.  Do you think repeating answered questions makes you look like some foppish Bill Oreilly pretender asking the 'hard' questions.

Here's your oft-answered question: It was within the legal right of the Iraqis to defend themselves from the illegal invasion of their homeland by Coalition forces ordered to attack by the mass murderer George W. Bush.
Bush is responsible for ALL THE DEATHS that resulted from the attack.  But for the attack ordered by the mass murderer Bush, those Iraqis are still alive.

But that's a mildly complex response.  So, as a matter of course, it went right over your head...for the 4th time.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jan/10/iraq.iraqtimeline

Here're the death numbers of Iraqis murdered by Coalition forces from JUST the initial invasion:

For the major combat phase of the war from March–April 2003, Abu Dhabi TV reported on April 8, 2003 that Iraqi sources had claimed that 1,252 civilians had been killed and 5,103 had been wounded. The Iraq Body Count project, incorporating subsequent reports, has reported that by the end of the major combat phase up to April 30, 2003, 7,299 civilians had been killed, primarily by US air and ground forces.[62]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#Iraqi_civilian_casualties

Is that enough death for you?  I mean do you feel better about yourself now that you know this?

By the way, you still haven't shown the legal authority for the 'no-fly' zones.

We're waiting.

I'm also waiting for you to show everyone where the UN Security Council gave Bush the authorization to invade Iraq.

You just can't stop stepping in it, can you?  Ok, I guess I have time to expose your idiocy one more time.

So when I give facts now they are irrelevant?!? lol.. typical.  Intel failures or no that WAS the intel thanks to people you voted for, liberal dems like yourself.  (Remember, the SAME people who voted for the war in the first place. The same people with access to the SAME intel and came to the SAME conclusions as Bush. The same people who for the mostpart continue to fund the war.)  But no, in your twisted crusade it had to be Dubya.  I'm still waiting for an impeachment buddy. ;D 
 
Once again I am forced to repeat myself for the doofus you are.  WMD's being moved to Syria and Jordan BY IRAQ is not the same as those countries just "having" them in the first place.  It was on Saddams hands and a calculated move.  And since when was Saddam NOT a problem?  He should have been deposed years ago.  Do we let one of the worst dictators just slide?  Should we have backed off so he could, once again, start srewing with inspectors and subverting their efforts??  That was his pattern.. US gets serious, he starts cooperating.  The moment the UN takes over or we step back he's back at his shenanigans again.  I suppose you think "Oh well let's just give him a another chance or two" after he'd already blown through a dozen or so.  How many UN resolutions does he have to violate before.. someone.. does.. anything? . . . How many acts of war does he need to commit before we, ahem, "give him the boot?"  Do we let him pursue weapons capabilities??  Do we wait until he pulls another 91 or worse??  Now we're trying to keep Iran out of the Nuclear fold and you would have rather have us dealing with an equally threatening and hostile Iraq??  I can see you won't be leading a foreign affair subcommittee or meeting with world leaders anytime soon, thankfully.   

All those countries agreed he had WMD's.  It's a fact (although coming from me I'm sure you CHOOSE not to believe it.)  Show me where I said they supported action by US forces??!?  Did I?!?  Of course not.  But in your fantasyland loose and obscure associations are plenty. 

And let's say for the sake of argument that the Iraqi people had a "right to defend themselves" from our invasion.  Than exactly what groups were blowing up civilians across the nation?  Are you saying the people killing allied forces were defending themselves from our invasion and the same people who were deciding to slaughter each other for no reason?  No, you moron.  I will clarify.

Iraqi civilians didn't attack allied forces to "defend their nation" lol.. that one still makes me laugh.  Terrorists, radical Islamic militants, groups killing to establish the next regime, etc. had the blood on their hands.  These are the same people murdering troops and civilians alike.  Oh no, but it can only be BUSH'S fault, right? hahahahaah, jesus.

The UN is not a world gov't.  Frankly, the UN wouldn't even exist if it weren't for our support (and what a tragedy that would be considering they do SOOOOOOO much to keep world peace ::)  Our NFZ's were just as legal as every term of surrender, concession, or spoil of war throughout the history of the world.  Read that again since it didn't seem to stick the first 3 times I've said it.  The surrendering country (and in this case, the aggressor) has to live with it, period. 

You've tried and failed to blame a just war that we've won on one man who had the support of the very people you continue to support.  Might as well blame yourself, genius.

You must really be miserable.  Reality just can't reach you, can it?  Bush isn't a mass murdering criminal.  There will be no impeachment or criminal proceedings.  USA won another war (yawn).. Killed another world-class A-hole.. on to the next line item.  But I get it.  Arguing with a blind and crusading drone is pointless.  I can lead a fat guy to a treadmill but I can't...

So much for destroying any of my arguments, now aren't you late for a peace rally or does crying to Getbig 23hrs a day about how horrible it is to be an American take priority over your social life?

Decker

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #222 on: December 15, 2008, 07:05:39 AM »
You just can't stop stepping in it, can you?  Ok, I guess I have time to expose your idiocy one more time.

So when I give facts now they are irrelevant?!? lol.. typical.  Intel failures or no that WAS the intel thanks to people you voted for, liberal dems like yourself.  (Remember, the SAME people who voted for the war in the first place. The same people with access to the SAME intel and came to the SAME conclusions as Bush. The same people who for the mostpart continue to fund the war.)  But no, in your twisted crusade it had to be Dubya.  I'm still waiting for an impeachment buddy. ;D 
I'm not sure what your point is b/c I'm having a difficult time making sense of your grammar.

Suffice it to say, there was mixed intel on some of the WMD points.  Some for it.  Some against it. 

So why did Bush always claim the evidence was a slam dunk favoring WMDs in Iraq?

That's a lie of omission.

And for the purposes of whether Iraq had WMDs constituting a threat against the US, well, the inspections on the Ground in Iraq pretty much did away with that speculative conjecture, didn't they?
 
Quote
Once again I am forced to repeat myself for the doofus you are.  WMD's being moved to Syria and Jordan BY IRAQ is not the same as those countries just "having" them in the first place.
Oh, so Syria and Jordan were just unaware of the WMDs that were moved enmasse into the respective countries. 

Who secured those WMDs?  Or are they still floating around?  Isn't that one of the precepts of the War of Terror?  Secure all WMDS so they don't fall into the hands of evil? 

Coincidentally, you've just undercut your "Al Qaeda was in Iraq" argument.  Think about it.


Quote
It was on Saddams hands and a calculated move.  And since when was Saddam NOT a problem?  He should have been deposed years ago.  Do we let one of the worst dictators just slide?
 First of all, you need a history lesson as to who was one of the worst dictators....Hussein was a pimp.

Quote
Should we have backed off so he could, once again, start srewing with inspectors and subverting their efforts??  That was his pattern.. US gets serious, he starts cooperating.  The moment the UN takes over or we step back he's back at his shenanigans again.  I suppose you think "Oh well let's just give him a another chance or two" after he'd already blown through a dozen or so.  How many UN resolutions does he have to violate before.. someone.. does.. anything? . . . How many acts of war does he need to commit before we, ahem, "give him the boot?"  Do we let him pursue weapons capabilities??  Do we wait until he pulls another 91 or worse??  Now we're trying to keep Iran out of the Nuclear fold and you would have rather have us dealing with an equally threatening and hostile Iraq??  I can see you won't be leading a foreign affair subcommittee or meeting with world leaders anytime soon, thankfully.
Hahahaha.  How exactly was Hussein a threat to the US?

What acts of war?  You mean the illegal impostion of illegal no fly zones over Iraq?  That's an act of war.  But that's not Hussein.

You use the same exact pre-emptive war justifications that Hitler used for invading Poland.  Do you know that?  You do now.

THe UN is a deliberative body comprised of many countries.  If the UN wanted to authorize an attack of Iraq it could have.

In your warped mind and universe, you think the speedbumps in life should be nuked.  You're a raving fool.

Quote
All those countries agreed he had WMD's.  It's a fact (although coming from me I'm sure you CHOOSE not to believe it.)  Show me where I said they supported action by US forces??!?  Did I?!?  Of course not.  But in your fantasyland loose and obscure associations are plenty. 
I'm not sure what you are trying to say again but the intel you refer to was conflicted yet passed off as a slam dunk by Bush and his cohorts.

And as I've already pointed out, those doctored ESTIMATES were soundly crushed by the scientific findings of the WMD inspectors ON THE GROUND IN IRAQ SCOURING THE COUNTRY WITH UNNANOUNCED INSPECTIONS.

Do you see that now?

Quote
And let's say for the sake of argument that the Iraqi people had a "right to defend themselves" from our invasion.  Than exactly what groups were blowing up civilians across the nation?  Are you saying the people killing allied forces were defending themselves from our invasion and the same people who were deciding to slaughter each other for no reason?  No, you moron.  I will clarify.

Iraqi civilians didn't attack allied forces to "defend their nation" lol.. that one still makes me laugh.  Terrorists, radical Islamic militants, groups killing to establish the next regime, etc. had the blood on their hands.  These are the same people murdering troops and civilians alike.  Oh no, but it can only be BUSH'S fault, right? hahahahaah, jesus.
Have you ever heard of the Sunnis and Shia people making up the Iraq population?  I didn't think so. B/c your explanation borders on nonsense.

See, the Sunni and the Shia are incompatible on ethnic grounds.  Hussein kept a lid on the nascent civil war.

The US's illegal invasion removed that stop-gap measure uncorking a civil war.

Not only did the US methodically slaughter civilians, it unleashed a civil war.

The US is responsible for all of those deaths b/c but for the illegal invasion, those people are still alive.

Did you get that?


Quote
The UN is not a world gov't.  Frankly, the UN wouldn't even exist if it weren't for our support (and what a tragedy that would be considering they do SOOOOOOO much to keep world peace ::)  Our NFZ's were just as legal as every term of surrender, concession, or spoil of war throughout the history of the world.  Read that again since it didn't seem to stick the first 3 times I've said it.  The surrendering country (and in this case, the aggressor) has to live with it, period. 
As a founding member of the UN, I would say that it would not exist without our support.  Which makes your position even more untenable.  Your boy Bush blew off the UN and attacked IRaq without authorization, thus the whole illegal thing.

It's hard for the UN to maintain its mission of peace when cocksuckers like Bush keep undermining its authority.  Do you see how that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy for the UN's failure?  Of course you don't.

Hulk knows smasssssssssh.

Victory in Iraq some 20 years ago is not license for the victors to do as they fucking please.  The terms of surrender were the terms of surrender.

Hulk smassssssssssssssssh surrender.....

Quote
You've tried and failed to blame a just war that we've won on one man who had the support of the very people you continue to support.  Might as well blame yourself, genius.
Yes, the 700,000 dead Iraqis continue to support Bush.  Thank you Mr. President for killing us and raping our country!

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You must really be miserable.  Reality just can't reach you, can it?  Bush isn't a mass murdering criminal.  There will be no impeachment or criminal proceedings.  USA won another war (yawn).. Killed another world-class A-hole.. on to the next line item.  But I get it.  Arguing with a blind and crusading drone is pointless.  I can lead a fat guy to a treadmill but I can't...
But for Bush's order, 100s of thousands of Iraqis are still alive today.

Bush is a mass murderer and you support his Nazi-like destruction.

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So much for destroying any of my arguments, now aren't you late for a peace rally or does crying to Getbig 23hrs a day about how horrible it is to be an American take priority over your social life?
I destroyed your arguments with proof, logic and consistency.  Since those things are foreign to your 'Hulk Smash' approach, you don't even recognize when you've lost. 

Trust me, you lost.  Not just the arguments either, you've also given up any claim you may have to your humanity.

Mr. Magoo

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #223 on: December 15, 2008, 06:34:54 PM »
I have no idea if the thread is off topic now or not, i just read the first page

but

1. Abraham Lincoln
2. FDR
3. Lyndon Johnson
4. Andrew Jackson
5. George W. Bush
6. Carter
7. TR

Best guy that never got to be president? Ron Paul and Barry Goldwater

The Luke

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Re: 3 worst Presidents in History...
« Reply #224 on: December 15, 2008, 06:39:41 PM »
Best guy that never got to be president? Ron Paul and Barry Goldwater

...Ralph Nader, greatest living American citizen. He has done more for the average American than anyone since Lincoln.


The Luke