Author Topic: On the fence  (Read 2919 times)

Arnold jr

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2008, 08:21:25 PM »
So whats the best way to get 'The Look" AJ?

When it comes to the lifting aspect you have to train like a bodybuilder, not a power lifter or strength athlete. Ever noticed that although Olympic lifters possess amazing strength, most of them are not much to look at. And I am not referring to the fat ass ones, there are a lot of these strong guys who although they do look strong at the same time they don't have much to look at in the physique department.

Intense training is the biggest key IMO. Right now I train more like a normal human being, but when I am really into it, I have to take my training to another place. (Notice I didn't say "take training to another level" cause I hate that term, lol!)  Keep rest in between sets minimal, don't dick around with fifty sets per body part. You should be able to train any body part in an hour tops, even less if you're doing it perfect. There is no reason on this earth if you're doing things right that you can't get in there and destroy your chest in 30 min.

Diet and cardio are probably the two biggest keys though. Which most people realize but very few follow. Too many guys let cardio slip in the off season and it takes a toll on their physique.

Something some of you might be interested in. As you know I am working hard on the new probodybuilding.com website. One of the features that will be there is a full in depth guideline and outline on training and diet. Every topic and every question you could have will be answered for beginners, intermediate, and advanced for both male and female for off-season and contest prep.

Before it is posted up it will be reviewed by several of the most well known respected trainers in the world and IMO will be the best piece of info like this anywhere on the net in a book or any other place you get info for this topic.

And yes, it will be 100% free of charge to look at.

tbombz

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2008, 08:46:32 PM »
most bodybuilding diets are set up for maximum growth while adding zero fat

but there is something to be said for a diet which is set up for maximum growth without worrying about  fat gains

id like to see some articles differentiating the two, arnold

Arnold jr

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2008, 10:00:13 PM »
most bodybuilding diets are set up for maximum growth while adding zero fat

but there is something to be said for a diet which is set up for maximum growth without worrying about  fat gains

id like to see some articles differentiating the two, arnold

Sorry, there is no such thing as "Maximum Growth" while adding zero body fat.

Yes, you can train and eat right and gain lean muscle tissue, but in terms of "Maximum Growth" this isn't possible, even with AAS.

I'll give you this info about these outlines.

In the beginners section, when it comes to the diet itself, it is designed with these purposes first and foremost.

1. learning how to eat properly
2. learning how to utilize nutrients to their full benefit
3. learning proper meal planning.
4. learning what works best for you, because there is no diet on earth that is perfect for every person

Yes, this diet does focus on gaining muscle mass, but it's primary focus is learning how to do it the correct way, learning how to do it without putting on more body fat then needed. A lot of people don't realize how detrimental the excess fat is to their bodybuilding goals in the long run.

There is also a section for the hard gainer but it is strongly emphasized that many who think they are hard gainers are not; they are simply doing things incorrectly and when they start eating like a hard gainer they end up making things worse then they should be.

It pretty much covers the whole spectrum very thoroughly. A lot of guys would be far better off if they took a step back and began on a beginners diet like this...because most do not have a good handle on the 4 things I mentioned above.

The beginners training section as well, many would be far better suited to step back to this level of training.

So many people jump into higher levels of training and diet before they are ready, way before they have mastered the basics. And it's a shame because the basics are more important then anything else. People lack patience, which is the name of the game if you're going to do it right. And when I say a lot of people I am talking about "MOST" people. I'd bet my life on it that less then 25% of people do things correctly and move at the proper speed when it comes to taking their training and diet into more advanced levels...maybe even less then 10% of people.

As a trainer myself, I'd say well over half my business comes from people who have been working out and trying to eat right for at least a year or longer...I'm talking about both bodybuilders and regular Joe's. And the other half who don't come, they're the ones with too much pride, most of them anyway. So they continue to do things the wrong way, making very slow progress, slower then it should be if any is made at all. They gain less muscle then they have to, they gain more fat then they should, they do everything wrong simply out of pride.

DIVISION

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2008, 10:50:09 PM »
Im not so much worried about strength, my goal was to bench double my body weight and I achieved that with the 405, but of course after that there is a new goal, 500...There aren't a lot of ppl in my gym that really throw serious weight, so I don't have a lot to compare my 405 bench to...But there will always be a new strength goal no matter what I reach...But I want size and a look more than anything else...Compared to a lot of ppl I know they think Im big, but I look in the mirror and dont see it...I see "damn I need a few more inches on my arms, my chest needs some size, damn need to hit the legs more"...Maybe this is how all of you guys felt...But maybe that is what it is that sets us apart.

My goals are purely strength related..........not size or aeshetics.

If I get any larger, the clothes won't fit and it's not very economical to lift simply for size's sake.

I lift for functional muscle, not to be a side of beef.....

If you're looking to be a bodybuilder, you'll need to think about turning to the Darkside.



DIV
I'm a ghost in these killing fields...

Arnold jr

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2008, 11:12:26 PM »
My goals are purely strength related..........not size or aeshetics.

If I get any larger, the clothes won't fit and it's not very economical to lift simply for size's sake.

I lift for functional muscle, not to be a side of beef.....

If you're looking to be a bodybuilder, you'll need to think about turning to the Darkside.



DIV

Yes and no...depends on the level you want. Look at guys like Eric Broser...I know for fact that he is natural and has a very good bodybuilding physique. But yes you're right, if you want Ronnie type muscle then AAS is the only way.

DIVISION

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2008, 11:16:15 PM »
Yes and no...depends on the level you want. Look at guys like Eric Broser...I know for fact that he is natural and has a very good bodybuilding physique. But yes you're right, if you want Ronnie type muscle then AAS is the only way.

Remember Skip LaCour?  ;D

I see guys like him at the gym, they don't lift much, but then again, they're naturals.



DIV
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Get SWOLE!!

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2008, 07:58:52 AM »
you are def right about how you train and the impact. I've put on more size in the last year then in the previous 3 years of training. But I have been soon tons of reading, research and talking to ppl so that I can learn. Dieting right is def the hardest part for me to get down on what works the best. I've even gone so far as to hire a pro bodybuilder who is a friend of a friend to work with me on dieting and addressing my weak areas.

All of you guys have been great and have provided good info. I appreciate the candor and honesty.

tbombz

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2008, 11:41:28 AM »
Sorry, there is no such thing as "Maximum Growth" while adding zero body fat.

Yes, you can train and eat right and gain lean muscle tissue, but in terms of "Maximum Growth" this isn't possible, even with AAS.
uummmmm

eeeerrrrr


weellllllllll


you mis read or misunderstood my post


every article written on nutrition for bodybuilders is set up to maximize muscle gorwth with minimal body fat accumulation. 

but you never see any nutrition experts writing articles about maximum growth without worrying about adding body fat.

and there is a huge difference between the two. 

 take dave palumbos off season diet for example. isnt it some lik this = 6 meals per day, 50 g protein, 25g fat, 50g carb per meal  ?       thats set up for minimum fat accumulation with maximum growth.

however a diet soemthing tlike this = 100g protein , 100 g carb x 5 meal per day + one cheat meal everyday consisting of binging on pizza or ice cream or whatever.       

the rate of growth in that second diet is astonishly faster than the rate of growth in that first diet.  yes you will add alot more fat but also a ton more muscle.


so id like to see soome good articles written on off season bulking for maximum growth without regards to adding bodyfat.

Arnold jr

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2008, 09:21:29 PM »
uummmmm

eeeerrrrr


weellllllllll


you mis read or misunderstood my post


every article written on nutrition for bodybuilders is set up to maximize muscle gorwth with minimal body fat accumulation. 

but you never see any nutrition experts writing articles about maximum growth without worrying about adding body fat.

and there is a huge difference between the two. 

 take dave palumbos off season diet for example. isnt it some lik this = 6 meals per day, 50 g protein, 25g fat, 50g carb per meal  ?       thats set up for minimum fat accumulation with maximum growth.

however a diet soemthing tlike this = 100g protein , 100 g carb x 5 meal per day + one cheat meal everyday consisting of binging on pizza or ice cream or whatever.       

the rate of growth in that second diet is astonishly faster than the rate of growth in that first diet.  yes you will add alot more fat but also a ton more muscle.


so id like to see soome good articles written on off season bulking for maximum growth without regards to adding bodyfat.


Yes, I did misunderstand your earlier comments.

That said, the type of diet you're talking about is simple. Eat everything in sight and keep eating. If that's not what you're getting at then I still don't understand what you're asking.

One thing is for certain, eating to gain and not being concerned with the fat gain is the worst mistake any bodybuilder could make. The added muscle will not be worth it at all. Yes, you would have more muscle, but when it came time to diet you would have so much extra fat, more fat then you should have and you will have to diet even harder. Because of that, you will lose more muscle on your diet then you would have if you had bulked cleaner. This also means when the diet is over, you will have less lean muscle tissue on your frame when it's all said and done. If you had bulked conservatively then you would have more lean muscle tissue on your frame when the diet is over. That's just the way it works...AAS or no AAS.

tbombz

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2008, 10:45:55 AM »
not eating everything in sight. eating clean bodybuilding foods all day long with one cheat meal every day. with hard training and maybe some morning cardio, you shouldnt get too fat, and the rate of muscle growth i astonishingly fatsre with this kind of diet than with a diet thatt is barely reaching caloric suplus via all 'clean foods'.

Arnold jr

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2008, 02:13:12 PM »
not eating everything in sight. eating clean bodybuilding foods all day long with one cheat meal every day. with hard training and maybe some morning cardio, you shouldnt get too fat, and the rate of muscle growth i astonishingly fatsre with this kind of diet than with a diet thatt is barely reaching caloric suplus via all 'clean foods'.

OK, now I understand what you're saying a little more clearly.

I ate sort of like you're talking about for a period, 2006-through the spring of 2007. When I did it I ate clean meals all day long and then what I called a semi-cheat meal once per day, and then a full blown cheat meal on the wk end, maybe two. By semi-cheat meal in my case that would mean some extra carbs and a little leeway with one of the meals like going out to dinner and having something on the menu that was not one of the worst things on the menu...make sense?

For myself, this was a very bad mistake...if you read some of my old post about that year I got way to fat. Yes I was carrying more muscle mass then I ever have before but I ended up having to diet so hard that I ended up getting in some serious trouble with my health.

I do believe that there are some people that can benefit from eating like you're talking about. I do not believe though that most people can or should. This is talked about in those outlines that will be at probodybuilding.com....l ike I said, every aspect is covered, even this one.

tbombz

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2008, 02:15:40 PM »
cool, thats what i was hoping for.

tstmaniac

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2008, 03:46:54 PM »
Remember Skip LaCour?  ;D

I see guys like him at the gym, they don't lift much, but then again, they're naturals.



DIV

what kinda weights you pushing? are you a powerlifter or strongman?

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2008, 04:18:25 PM »
I'm 25, almost 26 and I'm where you were a few years back.  Only done one real cycle, about to start my second (this one for a comp) and obviously since I'm so green I still have great health.  I plan to keep a close eye on everything and do it right.
Now I do have plans that if everything goes well, I may start to stay on longer and longer if I feel it is worth it.
I want to have kids someday and one of my biggest concerns is loosing that ability.  When you say you have perfect health, did you have your sperm count checked as well?  Just curious if that has been affected at all.  I know everyone is different and some have even gotten a girl pregnant while on gear, but one more piece of evidence from someone who is straight up about things would be nice.
As of right now my boys do just fine.  Ex. The first time I ever had sex the girl got pregnant.   :o  That'll scare the crap out of any 15 yr old. 

If this statement is true then you better be using HCG while "ON" cycle. HCG will protect your balls, for future use.

DIVISION

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2008, 05:19:55 PM »
what kinda weights you pushing? are you a powerlifter or strongman?

Not a powerlifter persay because I do negatives, and I don't use wraps.

If you must classify me, probably a strength athlete.

Bodybuilder, not so much.....   :-X



DIV
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