Trying the calorie is a calorie, Adonis like approach

[Deicide]

cardio + ephedrine

I won't take ephedrine or related substances; am post thirty want to careful about stuff like that...

More cardio wouldn't be bad....but according to ADP you don't need ANY cardio to get ripped...

[wavelength]

I won't take ephedrine or related substances; am post thirty want to careful about stuff like that...

More cardio wouldn't be bad....but according to ADP you don't need ANY cardio to get ripped...

Yes but cardio is allowed of course if you have an easier way of dieting on higher cals.

[Deicide]

But it looks more like the problem is the amount of calories if you have troubles in both cases.
Maybe you just need to still lower them somewhat. Do pig out days help?

I don't know. At first I was doing once a week Fresstage but I really went overboard on those days, eating 2 whole pizzas and the like. I am thinking now maybe once every two weeks and I am trying to start doing cardio (which I wasn't doing before)...

[TommyBoy]

More cardio wouldn't be bad....but according to ADP you don't need ANY cardio to get ripped...

I agree you don't need cardio to be ripped, from personal experience, but I have found it much easier to hold on to mass and be lean doing cardio as opposed to being purely calorie restricted. Also, the quality of my LBM seems to be much better and detailed even at the same BF %.

[ironneck]

I won't take ephedrine or related substances; am post thirty want to careful about stuff like that...

More cardio wouldn't be bad....but according to ADP you don't need ANY cardio to get ripped...

i am pretty ripped right now,it's tough to get under 10%

here is my advice

2000kcal
5-6 workout + at least 30 min cardio
ephedrine stacker(only 6% ephedrine + coffeeine and other stuff which is in the pills)

but i have to say i walk alot the whole day...i'm doing my national service right now and i have to transport all the old people in the hospital to the untersuchungen(?)(help me out wavelength)

[ironneck]

there is a point where you have to start with cardio cause the body gets used to the cal amount

[affeman]

there is a point where you have to start with cardio cause the body gets used to the cal amount

Cardio is useless for Naturals. Only burns tons of muscles.

[Deicide]

i am pretty ripped right now,it's tough to get under 10%

here is my advice

2000kcal
5-6 workout + at least 30 min cardio
ephedrine stacker(only 6% ephedrine + coffeeine and other stuff which is in the pills)

but i have to say i walk alot the whole day...i'm doing my national service right now and i have to transport all the old people in the hospital to the untersuchungen(?)(help me out wavelength)

Ich trainiere nie mehr als 3mal die Woche. Das ist meine Regel. Ausdauer kann ich mit einbauen. Ich nehme nix wie Ephedrin und werde es auch nicht tun...

[ironneck]

Cardio is useless for Naturals. Only burns tons of muscles.

ich finde nicht,vor allem wird das übertrieben dargestellt mit dem muskelverbrennen...voral lem weil man eh muskulöser erscheint wenn man gerippt ist :-)

[wavelength]

there is a point where you have to start with cardio cause the body gets used to the cal amount

Not my experience.

[ironneck]

Not my experience.

maybe it's true that every body is different?^^

[affeman]

there is a point where you have to start with cardio cause the body gets used to the cal amount

Then push your metabolism with a refeed.

[wavelength]

maybe it's true that every body is different?^^

True, but have you tried both and compared results?

[Deicide]

Not my experience.

So oder so geht der Stoffwechsel irgendwann mal in den Keller bei einem Kaloriendefizit. Man kann den auf mehrfache Weise wieder ankurbeln. Ausdauertraining kann kraeftig unterstuetzen und eine kurzfristige Erhoehung der Kalorienzufuhr kann aehnliches bewirken.

[TacoBell]

I believe my metablism can handle 2500
I eat between 4000-5000 calories everyday and somedays even 15,000

Youre such a tool.
Please show me what 15000 cals looks like.

[wavelength]

So oder so geht der Stoffwechsel irgendwann mal in den Keller bei einem Kaloriendefizit. Man kann den auf mehrfache Weise wieder ankurbeln. Ausdauertraining kann kraeftig unterstuetzen und eine kurzfristige Erhoehung der Kalorienzufuhr kann aehnliches bewirken.

Ist mir nicht passiert, vielleicht weil ichs sehr langsam angegangen bin (nur so ca. 1/2 kg in der Woche). Dadurch war ich am Schluss noch bei ca. 2000cal, wenn man den Fresstag mit reinrechnet.

Es gibt da sicher individuelle Unterschiede, aber verschiedene Sachen ausprobieren kann nicht schaden.

[ironneck]

True, but have you tried both and compared results?

yes i have,there was one point where i had to start with cardio to push my metabolism

Then push your metabolism with a refeed.

i do that like once in month, i eat like a pig,but the problem is that i feel bad afterwards^^

[TommyBoy]

Cardio is useless for Naturals. Only burns tons of muscles.

I hope this wasn't a serious post.

[Deicide]

Ist mir nicht passiert, vielleicht weil ichs sehr langsam angegangen bin (nur so ca. 1/2 kg in der Woche). Dadurch war ich am Schluss noch bei ca. 2000cal, wenn man den Fresstag mit reinrechnet.

Es gibt da sicher individuelle Unterschiede, aber verschiedene Sachen ausprobieren kann nicht schaden.

Ich wollte es auch langsam angehen, hab aber soviel Speck abzubauen...ich komme LANGSAM voran. Ich probiere verschiedenes jetzt aus....

Gestern habe ich einen Boxsack verpruegelt, nachdem ich 40 minuten Ausdauer gemacht habe.

[TommyBoy]

Please show me what 15000 cals looks like.

Delicious.

Yes, there is cheese IN the burger. God damn I want four of those.

[wavelength]

yes i have,there was one point where i had to start with cardio to push my metabolism

What was that point and why did you think you can't lose any more weight by further reducing calories? How low did you go?

[wavelength]

I hope this wasn't a serious post.

Well it's possible to burn muscle with cardio. I say better be safe than sorry.

[ironneck]

What was that point and why did you think you can't lose any more weight by further reducing calories? How low did you go?

ach so meinst du das...ne ich hätte ja weiter reduzieren können,aber ich wollte nicht noch weniger essen...irgendwann hab ich nix mehr abgenommen und als ich dann mit cardio anfing ging es wieder weiter

[affeman]

Well it's possible to burn muscle with cardio. I say better be safe than sorry.

Not to mention that Cardio sucks big time.

[Deicide]

Well it's possible to burn muscle with cardio. I say better be safe than sorry.

You can also burn it with a fucking lighter. Cardio is NOT the enemy of muscles...too much cardio is...