Steroids and the Kidneys

[theworm]

true.  I stopped by twice a day protein shake and drink one only after workouts.. less foamy uring and not a drop in one single pound.  I think all the "research" out there is supp companies selling their bullshit.

[erokyrwrld]

Update

So I went 7 days with reduced protein intake (~150g/day) and no exercise for 72 hours prior to the urinalysis.  Still came back having 1.6g of protein.  So its not diet or exercise induced proteinuria.

Next week I go for a kidney biopsy.  The doctor isn't saying this is necessary, but its a good idea if I want a solid answer.

[theworm]

Update

So I went 7 days with reduced protein intake (~150g/day) and no exercise for 72 hours prior to the urinalysis.  Still came back having 1.6g of protein.  So its not diet or exercise induced proteinuria.

Next week I go for a kidney biopsy.  The doctor isn't saying this is necessary, but its a good idea if I want a solid answer.

I'll tell you whats wrong with that statement.  Just because you are still peeing protein and not working out, does not mean that working out and eating too much protein did not cause this.  That may have triggered the damage, and your kidneys are still peeing it out now cause they are slightly damaged.

what is the normal range of how much protein the average person pees?
also, do you have any signs?  weekness?  legs getting swollen?  stomach getting full of water (ascites)?

[erokyrwrld]

That's the thing, I have no symptoms of kidney damage.  But the average person with normal function kidney has 0 protein in the urine.  A perfectly functioning kidney allows none out.  So, my guess is I have some mild damage from a few year of un-medicated high blood pressure.  I'll let you know in a week.

[tbombz]

Just because you are still peeing protein and not working out, does not mean that working out and eating too much protein did not cause this.  That may have triggered the damage, and your kidneys are still peeing it out now cause they are slightly damaged.

no. wrong. protein intake doesnt lead to kidney damage.  BUT damaged kidneys cant handle large amounts of protein.  this is common knowledge and established fact.

ive told you this before in regards to cholestrol intake and cholestrol numbers. dietary intake doesnt effect cholestrol levels...but when somebody has poor cholestrol already then they cant handle large amounts of dietary cholestrol.









oh and whey protein shakes do help growth. established fac. whey proteins amino acid profile and bioavailability is far superior to other proteins, and its digestion rate makes it great for taking advantage of the growth  oppurtunities during and ater weight training.   the fact that you havent lost weight doesnt negate this... nobody says youll lose weight if you dont take whey. whey isnt hormones.  BUT, you just dont gain weight as fast without it. 

[MuscleMcMannus]

Don't stop your protein intake because of your doctor's concerns.

If anything you need to up that protein once in to PCT.

Your doctor obviously isn't familiar with AAS and cycling.


DIV

In one post you telling him to go to the doctor "NOW" and then in this post you're saying he shouldn't listen to his doctor!!!!!!!!!! LMAO!   

[MuscleMcMannus]

That's the thing, I have no symptoms of kidney damage.  But the average person with normal function kidney has 0 protein in the urine.  A perfectly functioning kidney allows none out.  So, my guess is I have some mild damage from a few year of un-medicated high blood pressure.  I'll let you know in a week.

A few years of high blood pressure?     How high?  Being a normal healthy male with high blood pressure is one thing........being a resistance training steroid using bodybuilder with high blood pressure is a prereq for kidney damage.  It amazes me how many so called "bodybuilders" are so irresponsible when it comes to their health.  Afterall isn't bodybuilding about health and vitality? 

[erokyrwrld]

I would guess I had elevated blood pressure for 2-3 years before being diagnosed and put on bp meds.  When it was finally checked and diagnosed, it was around 170/110, so it was quite high.  It was probably only that high for a brief period of time.  At or around this time, I was using AAS, but I firmly believe the culprit was Stimulant X which I had been using regularly for several months.

[theworm]

no. wrong. protein intake doesnt lead to kidney damage.  BUT damaged kidneys cant handle large amounts of protein.  this is common knowledge and established fact.

ive told you this before in regards to cholestrol intake and cholestrol numbers. dietary intake doesnt effect cholestrol levels...but when somebody has poor cholestrol already then they cant handle large amounts of dietary cholestrol.

wow, your ignorance is profound.  you get all your info from google.com  ...  this is controversial even among nephrologist that high protein intake MAY cause long term damage.  the only evidence out there right now is from short term studies (like 20 weeks or so), so there is no evidence yet, but many speculate that long term, high protein intake MAY not be the best for the kidneys. 

Now, throw in stenous excercise.  this is a KNOWN cause for proteinuria.  Strenous excersice causes muscle damage which releases myglobin, creatine, protein, etc.. and these substanses (especially, the myoglobin) CAN and do harm the kidney.  so, i believe high, long term protein intake, and strenous exercise over many years may eventually damage the kidney...

[theworm]

no. wrong. protein intake doesnt lead to kidney damage.  BUT damaged kidneys cant handle large amounts of protein.  this is common knowledge and established fact.
ive told you this before in regards to cholestrol intake and cholestrol numbers. dietary intake doesnt effect cholestrol levels...but when somebody has poor cholestrol already then they cant handle large amounts of dietary cholestrol.

oh and whey protein shakes do help growth. established fac. whey proteins amino acid profile and bioavailability is far superior to other proteins, and its digestion rate makes it great for taking advantage of the growth  oppurtunities during and ater weight training.   the fact that you havent lost weight doesnt negate this... nobody says youll lose weight if you dont take whey. whey isnt hormones.  BUT, you just dont gain weight as fast without it. 

ok, sorry about owning you twice in one thread, but you are not very intelligent at all.  i like how you say "this is common knowledge" when its controversial EVEN among nephrologists!  dumbass.

then, you make yourself look like a retard by saying that dietary cholesterol does NOT influence blood levels.  dead wrong again, son.

read this from the cleveland clinic regarding cholesterol:

About 85 percent of your blood cholesterol level is endogenous, which means it is produced by your body. The other 15 percent or so comes from an external source -- your diet. Your dietary cholesterol originates from meat, poultry, fish, seafood and dairy products. It's possible for some people to eat foods high in cholesterol and still have low blood cholesterol levels. Likewise, it's possible to eat foods low in cholesterol and have a high blood cholesterol level.

So, why is there so much talk about cholesterol in our diet? It's because the level of cholesterol already present in your blood can be increased by high consumption of cholesterol and saturated fat in your diet.

my point, is just don;t be so opinionated, when you don;t know shit.

[tbombz]

two horrible meldown posts that do not in anyway contradict me with any kind of facts.

nice work worm



 dietary intake of cholestrol does not promote negative cholestrol levels in the body - ( in fact dietary cholestrol may even help t promote good cholestrol levels in the body.... since homronal balance is necessary for good choelstrol levels and dietary cholestrol are used in the synthesis of all hormones  )

dietary protein intake does not cause unhealthy kidneys

 


and please explain t me what is the difference between learning information through a compuetr than learning information through a textbook? 

go to school and pay a professor to tell you to read a text book which will simplify studies so you understand them...OR... read the studies first hand for free.      same education exactly, my friend. 

you should watch goodwillhunting.  didnt anybody ever tell you i look like matt damon? how do you like dem apples.

[theworm]

two horrible meldown posts that do not in anyway contradict me with any kind of facts.

nice work worm



 dietary intake of cholestrol does not promote negative cholestrol levels in the body - ( in fact dietary cholestrol may even help t promote good cholestrol levels in the body.... since homronal balance is necessary for good choelstrol levels and dietary cholestrol are used in the synthesis of all hormones  )

dietary protein intake does not cause unhealthy kidneys

 


and please explain t me what is the difference between learning information through a compuetr than learning information through a textbook? 

go to school and pay a professor to tell you to read a text book which will simplify studies so you understand them...OR... read the studies first hand for free.      same education exactly, my friend. 

you should watch goodwillhunting.  didnt anybody ever tell you i look like matt damon? how do you like dem apples.

oh man.  are you serious?  i'll tell you two main differences between learning from "a computer" verse learing through both textbooks and real life clinical experience:
1. Can you get a real legit degree through the internet and make hundreds of thousands of dollars?  No.
2. You are wrong, and you are so ignorant, you have no idea as to HOW and WHY you are wrong, which is very scary.    There isn't even a thing called "negative cholesterol."

so I have 2 questions for you, and you can look this up on doctor internet.
1. show the proof that long term high protein intake combined with long term strenous exercise does NOT harm the kidneys in anyway.
(good luck).
2. Dietary protein DOES affect blood levels.  How can you agrue against these facts as posted on the cleveland clinic?   You first say, dietary intake does not affect cholesterol, then I post info from the Cleveland Clinic which says it does.  SO YOU ARE WRONG, be a man and admit it.

you are very pathetic, and I feel embarrassed for you.  WHo should people believe, some high school kid who can look things up on google, or institutions like the Cleveland Clinic who makes statements based on facts?  stick to watching movies son. 

[theworm]

two horrible meldown posts that do not in anyway contradict me with any kind of facts.

nice work worm



 dietary intake of cholestrol does not promote negative cholestrol levels in the body - ( in fact dietary cholestrol may even help t promote good cholestrol levels in the body.... since homronal balance is necessary for good choelstrol levels and dietary cholestrol are used in the synthesis of all hormones  )

Explain how you are NOT wrong on this?  this is taken from the American Heart Association homepage:

Saturated fatty acids are the main culprit in raising blood cholesterol, which increases your risk of heart disease. Trans fats also raise blood LDL cholesterol.

so please tell me (or "teach me") again, how diet does not affect blood cholesterol again?  you seemed soo sure of this...   

[tbombz]

Explain how you are NOT wrong on this?  this is taken from the American Heart Association homepage:

Saturated fatty acids are the main culprit in raising blood cholesterol, which increases your risk of heart disease. Trans fats also raise blood LDL cholesterol.

so please tell me (or "teach me") again, how diet does not affect blood cholesterol again?  you seemed soo sure of this...   

that says saturated fats, not dietary choelstrol.

do you think they are the same thing?


on a side note, processed carbs and sugars are just as bad if not worse for cholestrol levels than saturated fats.

[tbombz]

i can lead you to water water but i cant make you dirnk it.



and im done with these two points, as there can be no success in trying to make a preist give up his belief in god through argumentation.

[theworm]

that says saturated fats, not dietary choelstrol.

do you think they are the same thing?


on a side note, processed carbs and sugars are just as bad if not worse for cholestrol levels than saturated fats.

ok, taken from the site as well:

Diets that are high in cholesterol raise the levels of LDL cholesterol in the blood

need more info?  just admit you are wrong and save some face man.

[theworm]

this is getting too much fun.

ive told you this before in regards to cholestrol intake and cholestrol numbers. dietary intake doesnt effect cholestrol levels...

... in fact dietary cholestrol may even help t promote good cholestrol levels in the body.... 

you can;t even keep your own delusional facts straight.  rough night for tbomz...

[tbombz]

ok, taken from the site as well:

Diets that are high in cholesterol raise the levels of LDL cholesterol in the blood

need more info?  just admit you are wrong and save some face man.

Dietary Cholesterol from Eggs Increases Plasma HDL Cholesterol in Overweight Men Consuming a Carbohydrate-Restricted Diet1,2
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/138/2/272

Increased dietary cholesterol does not increase plasma low density lipoprotein
http://www.springerlink.com/content/c6287375m6767g80/

Qureshi, A et al. 2007. Regular egg consumption does not increase the risk of stroke or cardiovascular diseases. Medical Science Monitor. 13(1): CR1-8
http://www.medscimonit.com/fulltxt.php?ICID=470141

[tbombz]

this is getting too much fun.

you can;t even keep your own delusional facts straight.  rough night for tbomz...

dietary cholestrol migth help promote good cholestrol because cholestrol is a ne3cessary and healthy thing to consume !!!


some facts on dietary cholestrol =

Fact: cholesterol is a critically important molecule, required for normal bodily functions. It helps maintain the integrity of every cell membrane in the human body. Cholesterol is abundant in brain and nervous system tissue. Even though the brain only represents a small portion of a person’s weight (around 2 percent), it contains around 25 percent of a body’s total cholesterol. Myelin, the fatty acid surrounding nerve fibers, is dependent on cholesterol to conduct electrical impulses that control movement, sensation, thinking, learning and memory. Cholesterol has been found to be the most important factor in the formation of synapses, connections between neurons that form the basis of learning and memory. Bile acid, required for the digestion of fats, is synthesized from cholesterol in the liver. Vitamin D, necessary for strong bones and teeth, is also synthesized from cholesterol and abundant in cholesterol-rich foods (cod liver oil, herring, oysters, catfish, sardines, mackerel, salmon, caviar and shrimp). Cholesterol is a precursor to all steroid hormones and is needed to synthesize testosterone, for improved libido, confidence and muscle mass.

[theworm]

Dietary Cholesterol from Eggs Increases Plasma HDL Cholesterol in Overweight Men Consuming a Carbohydrate-Restricted Diet1,2
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/138/2/272

Increased dietary cholesterol does not increase plasma low density lipoprotein
http://www.springerlink.com/content/c6287375m6767g80/

Qureshi, A et al. 2007. Regular egg consumption does not increase the risk of stroke or cardiovascular diseases. Medical Science Monitor. 13(1): CR1-8
http://www.medscimonit.com/fulltxt.php?ICID=470141

bro, you are either retarded or are 14 years old.  your best evidence comes from an article entitled " Increased dietary cholesterol does not increase plasms low density lipoprotein"....  boy this is fun.  ready to get owned again?....

You forgot the last part, and the most important part of that article...   "Increased dietary cholesterol does not increase plasms low density lipoprotein when accompanied by an energy-restricted diet and weight loss"  

damn!
even from the ABSTRACT from the same article YOU quoted:
Diets enriched with dietary cholesterol, frequently from eggs, have been shown to produce a small but variable increase in plasma low density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol.

See, thats the difference between learing from institutions and learning from the internet.  At least I know how to read a journal article....  back to the movies son.

[theworm]

you lost all face, so now, just be a man, and admit your wrong.   

[tbombz]

bro, you are either retarded or are 14 years old.  your best evidence comes from an article entitled " Increased dietary cholesterol does not increase plasms low density lipoprotein"....  boy this is fun.  ready to get owned again?....

You forgot the last part, and the most important part of that article...   "Increased dietary cholesterol does not increase plasms low density lipoprotein when accompanied by an energy-restricted diet and weight loss"  

damn!
even from the ABSTRACT from the same article YOU quoted:
Diets enriched with dietary cholesterol, frequently from eggs, have been shown to produce a small but variable increase in plasma low density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol.

See, thats the difference between learing from institutions and learning from the internet.  At least I know how to read a journal article....  back to the movies son.

 however eggs also tend to promote a rise in hdl, which negates the rise in ldl.

womr do you have some kind of "stock" in promoting the idea that dietary cholestrol is unhealthy? it seems so





heres the finding of a study =

For most people, the effect of dietary cholesterol is minimal and the reduction of total and saturated fat is more important. However, for those with raised blood cholesterol levels (above 5.2 mmol/L), reducing the amount of high-cholesterol foods will help,

(exactly what i originally told you)



below explains how they came to the above conclusion
The literature was searched using MEDLINE (1974 to 1999) and Biological Abstracts (1989 to 1999). Reference lists were then reviewed. Studies were included if they met the following criteria:

they were published in English;
their design was either parallel (groups of participants given different diets) or randomised crossover (all participants given different diets in random order);
the experimental diets only differed in the amount of dietary cholesterol or number of eggs;
the diets lasted for 14 days or more;
the HDL concentrations were reported.
Seventeen studies met these criteria. Participants totalled 556 (422 men and 134 women), aged between 18 and 75 years, with an average body mass index (kg/sq m) ranging from 20.8 to 28 and initial cholesterol concentration ranging from 4.06 to 5.92 mmol/L. The change in cholesterol intake ranged from 167 to 897 mg/d.

http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/hliving/eggschol.html

[tbombz]

from the HARVARD school of public health=

Cholesterol in the bloodstream is what's most important. And the biggest influence on blood cholesterol level is the mix of fats in your diet—not the amount of cholesterol you eat from food.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/fats-and-cholesterol/

[theworm]

seriously man, you can copy and paste all night long... you are still wrong.

bottom line:
you say dietary cholesterol has no effect on blood cholesterol.

I have now showed you evidence it does, even from the American Heart Association.

Now, I know you are quite immature, but just try to be a man and admit you were wrong...   why is this so hard for you?

[theworm]

from the HARVARD school of public health=

Cholesterol in the bloodstream is what's most important. And the biggest influence on blood cholesterol level is the mix of fats in your diet—not the amount of cholesterol you eat from food.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/fats-and-cholesterol/

My point exactly, you cannot learn scientific thinking over the internet, let me try to walk you through this... now try to pay attention.   just because Harvard says the "biggest influence" is not from food, it does NOT in ANYWAY say that food (diet) cannot raise LDL.  It is simply stating that "fats in your diet" is the biggest influence.  Foods had an impact, its just NOT the BIGGEST impact.  see how this works?

Now, if you read the actual article instead of just copying and pasting, you would have gone on to read "Cholesterol in food matters, too"