Israel did it again

[tu_holmes]

Yawn....you know that site is pro-Israeli? You obviously have such a tiwsted mind that you can't even understand that you're agreeing with the "enemy".

I don't see an "enemy".

I think both sides of that conflict are completely ridiculous... Fighting for a shitty religious historical area.

You do realize that the areas that were under "Palestinian" control have been slowly eroded over the past 60+ years... Pretty odd.

But, do you also realize that if the Palestinian's wanted to control Israel, they could... easily.

Israel has a law that states that anyone who asks for Citizenship will be granted it... The Palestinians could easily apply for citizenship and vote themselves into power within a generation if they weren't complete morons.

[Fury]

I don't see an "enemy".

I think both sides of that conflict are completely ridiculous... Fighting for a shitty religious historical area.

You do realize that the areas that were under "Palestinian" control have been slowly eroded over the past 60+ years... Pretty odd.

But, do you also realize that if the Palestinian's wanted to control Israel, they could... easily.

Israel has a law that states that anyone who asks for Citizenship will be granted it... The Palestinians could easily apply for citizenship and vote themselves into power within a generation if they weren't complete morons.

This is what cracks me up. Look at that area. It's desert and has no ecological/economic significance. Hell, the only reason it's important is because a couple of buildings built thousands of years ago hold some significance because a book written by some schmuck tells them it's important. It's ridiculous. Fucking religion.

[tu_holmes]

This is what cracks me up. Look at that area. It's desert and has no ecological/economic significance. Hell, the only reason it's important is because a couple of buildings built thousands of years ago hold some significance because a book written by some schmuck tells them it's important. It's ridiculous. Fucking religion.

Fighting for a fucking pile of sand that can not functionally improve any of their lives... Completely moronic.

If you're fighting for your land... your land should have some value... There is nothing valuable there.

[IFBBwannaB]

I don't see an "enemy".

I think both sides of that conflict are completely ridiculous... Fighting for a shitty religious historical area.

You do realize that the areas that were under "Palestinian" control have been slowly eroded over the past 60+ years... Pretty odd.

But, do you also realize that if the Palestinians wanted to control Israel, they could... easily.

Israel has a law that states that anyone who asks for Citizenship will be granted it... The Palestinians could easily apply for citizenship and vote themselves into power within a generation if they weren't complete morons.

Firstly you are wrong about that law, it's only for Jewish people.

Secondly, my greatest concern for the Israeli people is that the Israeli Arabs will one day vote themself into power.
But...do remember...the Israeli Arabs want to live in a 1st world country, they know how a real Arab country look...so they aren't so quick to turn where they live into one.

[tu_holmes]

Firstly you are wrong about that law, it's only for Jewish people.

Secondly, my greatest concern for the Israeli people is that the Israeli Arabs will one day vote themself into power.
But...do remember...the Israeli Arabs want to live in a 1st world country, they know how a real Arab country look...so they aren't so quick to turn where they live into one.

That's not what I've been led to believe... If you have something that shows otherwise, I will acquiesce that point, but in things I've read and discussed... Palestinians can become Israeli citizens if they petition that.

Also, my understanding is that Palestinians who are born in "Israeli occupied" land are already citizens as the government is represented by Palestinians at about the 8 percent mark.

[IFBBwannaB]

That's not what I've been led to believe... If you have something that shows otherwise, I will acquiesce that point, but in things I've read and discussed... Palestinians can become Israeli citizens if they petition that.

Also, my understanding is that Palestinians who are born in "Israeli occupied" land are already citizens as the government is represented by Palestinians at about the 8 percent mark.

You're confusing things here.

Jewish people get automatic citizenship from all over the world, although it's not really automatic.

The Palestinians want to receive the same right, but they never will and should never get it either.

The 8% you speak of is the Israeli Arabs, Arabs that are born inside Israel, places like Jaffa,Om-Al-Fahem and such.
They are 100% Israeli citizens, although they have proved over and over to be traitors.

[tu_holmes]

You're confusing things here.

Jewish people get automatic citizenship from all over the world, although it's not really automatic.

The Palestinians want to receive the same right, but they never will and should never get it either.

The 8% you speak of is the Israeli Arabs, Arabs that are born inside Israel, places like Jaffa,Om-Al-Fahem and such.
They are 100% Israeli citizens, although they have proved over and over to be traitors.

Let's just say that you know that I mean Israeli Arabs when I use that term ok?

The point is that the Arabs could control Israel if they weren't such morons.

[IFBBwannaB]

Let's just say that you know that I mean Israeli Arabs when I use that term ok?

The point is that the Arabs could control Israel if they weren't such morons.

We agree that they are morons, they ~15% of the population so they can't control.
But yes they can get much more power.

[Mars]

there are rascist laws within Israel that favours israeli jews above israeli arabs thats true.

[IFBBwannaB]

there are rascist laws within Israel that favours israeli jews above israeli arabs thats true.

Name one.

[Mars]

Name one.

One is that the Israeli Knesset voted to block palestinians who marry Israelis from becoming Israeli citizens or residents.

[IFBBwannaB]

One is that the Israeli Knesset voted to block palestinians who marry Israelis from becoming Israeli citizens or residents.

I don't recall such a law, please link me.

Also, citizenship laws in Israel are pretty firm, you need to prove you are really Jewish and really married and so on. Some of these laws were legislated because of the rise in illegal workers that come there to fill in the gaps in lower level jobs, kind of like in the US.

[Mars]

ive red about several rascist laws in the book "the israel lobby" but heres a random google link.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/racist-marriage-law-upheld-by-israel-478291.html

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0801-07.htm

[IFBBwannaB]

ive red about several rascist laws in the book "the israel lobby" but heres a random google link.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/racist-marriage-law-upheld-by-israel-478291.html

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0801-07.htm

Did you actually read why this law was legislated?
Will you agree for automatic citizenship for any illegal alien that paid some trailer trash bitch to marry her?

If a large portion of the Arab population in Israel will marry Palestinians just to get them citizenship Israel security will be long gone.

You are too blind, this law is a necessity.

[Mars]

then maybe you should sent a email to mr jimmy carter and prof john Mearsheimer to name two, that they see it all wrong and you can explain them how it really sits right?

[IFBBwannaB]

then maybe you should sent a email to mr jimmy carter and prof john Mearsheimer to name two, that they see it all wrong and you can explain them how it really sits right?

Right after you will support a law that give automatic citizenship to anyone who marry an American citizen...I mean...whomever heard of frauds...especially Israeli Arabs that marry Palestinians to get them citizenships...or some trailer trash marrying an illegal alien for money...

Here is how your buddies fight:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=116_1231063776

[tu_holmes]

Right after you will support a law that give automatic citizenship to anyone who marry an American citizen...I mean...whomever heard of frauds...especially Israeli Arabs that marry Palestinians to get them citizenships...or some trailer trash marrying an illegal alien for money...

Here is how your buddies fight:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=116_1231063776

If a foreign national who is legally in the US marries a US citizen, they can become a citizen after 3 years.

That's not so bad if you ask me... Is it automatic, no... but it's not a blanket denial.

[Hedgehog]

You're confusing things here.

Jewish people get automatic citizenship from all over the world, although it's not really automatic.

The Palestinians want to receive the same right, but they never will and should never get it either.

The 8% you speak of is the Israeli Arabs, Arabs that are born inside Israel, places like Jaffa,Om-Al-Fahem and such.
They are 100% Israeli citizens, although they have proved over and over to be traitors.

No offence bro, but I definitely think Mars gave you an example of a racist law.

Any law that brings ethnicity into the equation is racist.

What's so hard to understand about that?


I'll tell you where I stand on the issue. I think Hamas is a terrorist organisation and the way they do not respect war laws and hide among civilians, bomb civilian targets, et al, is totally unacceptable.

But when Israel killed one of the leaders of Hamas the other day, his children were killed at the same time.

His children.

7-8 year olds becoming casualities of war. Since when is that a price that Israel is willing to pay?

I don't care what you say about things being twisted by the media.

Blame the media all you want.

But the fact is that children and civilians are getting slaughtered.

It's not just Israel's fault. It's Hamas as well, they don't follow the rules of war.

Also, as the attacking force in the conflict, Israel has responsibility for the safety and well being of the civilians in the area.

If they don't see to that, Israel's officers in charge are war criminals.

[IFBBwannaB]

No offence bro, but I definitely think Mars gave you an example of a racist law.

Any law that brings ethnicity into the equation is racist.

What's so hard to understand about that?


I'll tell you where I stand on the issue. I think Hamas is a terrorist organisation and the way they do not respect war laws and hide among civilians, bomb civilian targets, et al, is totally unacceptable.

But when Israel killed one of the leaders of Hamas the other day, his children were killed at the same time.

His children.

7-8 year olds becoming casualities of war. Since when is that a price that Israel is willing to pay?

I don't care what you say about things being twisted by the media.

Blame the media all you want.

But the fact is that children and civilians are getting slaughtered.

It's not just Israel's fault. It's Hamas as well, they don't follow the rules of war.

Also, as the attacking force in the conflict, Israel has responsibility for the safety and well being of the civilians in the area.

If they don't see to that, Israel's officers in charge are war criminals.

Maybe you should blame him for hiding behind his children? He knew he was a target.

Come on now, hiding behind your children and then blaming others for your children suffering? lol...you gotta try better than that.

[Fury]

The racist laws of Israel are no different from a lot of Muslim laws. Look at Sharia Law and the jizyah for example. They both do it.

[Hedgehog]

The racist laws of Israel are no different from a lot of Muslim laws. Look at Sharia Law and the jizyah for example. They both do it.

They both do it?

No offence, but that's old school apologism IMO.

Israel have racist laws. That's just not something I can ever agree with.

I don't agree with racist laws in any other country either.

I think Muslim laws are a disaster, eg I would support a total boycott of Saudi Arabia the minute it was suggested.

[Fury]

They both do it?

No offence, but that's old school apologism IMO.

Israel have racist laws. That's just not something I can ever agree with.

I don't agree with racist laws in any other country either.

I think Muslim laws are a disaster, eg I would support a total boycott of Saudi Arabia the minute it was suggested.

I'm not apologizing for it. I'm pointing out that the people basing their entire argument around the fact that Israel has some racist laws designed to benefit the jews really need to do a little reading on Sharia Law. I'm not defending them either. But railing against Israel for it when Sharia Law is about as prejudiced as you can get is incredibly hypocritical.

[Hedgehog]

Maybe you should blame him for hiding behind his children? He knew he was a target.

Come on now, hiding behind your children and then blaming others for your children suffering? lol...you gotta try better than that.

He was killed in the night. At his home.

I would have agreed with you if he'd been killed during the day, at work and the kids would've been with him then.

But now?

A man's got to sleep and be with his family sometime.

If you look at my post, you see that I mentioned how Hamas do not follow the rules of war.

So I don't automatically blame Israel when Palestinian kids get killed.

But this time, it seems like the attack was disproportionate.

Because not only the Hamas leader but several people at his home were killed.

That's just not right.

FWIW, I believe a big reason for this attack on Hamas was because of the upcoming elections and the current leftist administration wanted to secure added support.

From what I've seen, they've managed to gain in the polls, get the upper hand on Likud.

Too bad a military action is done in order to secure political power.

[Fury]

Israel called the people in the area of that guy on the phone a week in advance saying that he was a possible target. He knew it too. How many people bring their children to war with them? The insurgents in Afghanistan usually leave their families behind to fight their war.

And what are they supposed to do? Not kill him because he surrounds himself with people while he orchestrates attacks? Can't have your cake and eat it too.

It's war. Has anyone in history ever stopped themselves from killing a person in the top five of command of their enemy because of his family being around him? Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi's family was killed in the attack on him. Should the USA have left him alone despite knowing he was there and the fact that it took them a year to track him down? A guy who was beheading Iraqis and US contractors left and right and responsible for the deaths of thousands of Iraqis in his campaign of orchestrated bombings?

[Hedgehog]

I'm not apologizing for it. I'm pointing out that the people basing their entire argument around the fact that Israel has some racist laws designed to benefit the jews really need to do a little reading on Sharia Law. I'm not defending them either. But railing against Israel for it when Sharia Law is about as prejudiced as you can get is incredibly hypocritical.

I disagree.

It has to be possible to discuss the problems of the laws of Israel without mentioning how bad other countries are.

Just as we should be able to discuss how Muslim laws are antidemocratic, without having to mention how Christianity was both antidemocratic and antifeminist five hundred years ago.

I guess one problem is that many that are critical of Israel, also subscribe to some "Jewish" conspiracy theory or believe that "Jews" are born evil.

Ie, they are racists themselves.

These people are like a plague to any discussion on Israel/Palestine.