Author Topic: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath  (Read 24285 times)

Relentless

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2009, 05:24:31 PM »
Because a) he's not a powerlifter so doesn't try to train heavier than necessary to maintain his size, and b) most of his training videos are pre-contest where he's weaker.  If you watch Nasser on the Way Part III he lifts some pretty heavy weights there.

Nasser was very weak for his size.  Sorry, but it's true.  Other guys are not as weak pre-contest. 

bigbobs

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2009, 05:26:51 PM »
What would you call the above, bigbobs?  Looks like you are DEAD WRONG on Nasser owning Kevin during that time period. 

Owned?  OWNED.

haha, I was focusing on the major shows - you're right; Levrone did place well in the 97 Grand Prix.  

My point is still correct that at their respective bests Nasser repeatedly beat Levrone, and that's why he had higher odds than Levrone at winning the 98 Olympia when Yates announced his retirement.

By "major shows" during Nasser's prime where he beat Levrone I'm talking about the following:

1996 Mr. Olympia
1997 Arnold Classic
1997 Mr. Olympia
1997 Arnold Classic
1998 Mr. Olympia
1999 Arnold Classic

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2009, 05:28:35 PM »
Nasser was very weak for his size.  Sorry, but it's true.  Other guys are not as weak pre-contest. 

Irrelevent for this sport.  Nobody asks them how much they lift when they are onstage.

Relentless

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2009, 05:28:59 PM »
haha, I was focusing on the major shows - you're right; Levrone did place well in the 97 Grand Prix.  

My point is still correct that at their respective bests Nasser repeatedly beat Levrone, and that's why he had higher odds than Levrone at winning the 98 Olympia when Yates announced his retirement.

By "major shows" during Nasser's prime where he beat Levrone I'm talking about the following:

1996 Mr. Olympia
1997 Arnold Classic
1997 Mr. Olympia
1997 Arnold Classic
1998 Mr. Olympia
1999 Arnold Classic


Which is a relatively short period of time.  Nasser faded quickly after the 1999 Arnold and was never the same after that show.

Did he ever tell you what he thinks happened to where he fell down the rankings again so quickly?

Sherief Shalaby

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2009, 05:29:12 PM »
You're right that Kevin's career was more consistent, but at their best Nasser placed higher.  Nasser should have placed ahead of Kevin in 95 but was the newcomer to the top ranks at the time and therefore had a disadvantage.  Anyhow, from the 95 Olympia all the way to the 99 Arnold Classic Kevin never even beat Nasser once during those prime years of Nasser's.  After Yates announced his retirement it was Flex, then Nasser who had the highest odds of winning - others like Kevin and Shawn were given lesser odds (by the Flex magazine experts shortly before the 98 O).

BOOM!!



agree wth u bob.. but kevin did beat nasser in these years (in some GP contests) but never in the AC or the olympia..

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #55 on: January 29, 2009, 05:29:26 PM »
haha, I was focusing on the major shows - you're right; Levrone did place well in the 97 Grand Prix.  

My point is still correct that at their respective bests Nasser repeatedly beat Levrone, and that's why he had higher odds than Levrone at winning the 98 Olympia when Yates announced his retirement.

By "major shows" during Nasser's prime where he beat Levrone I'm talking about the following:

1996 Mr. Olympia
1997 Arnold Classic
1997 Mr. Olympia
1997 Arnold Classic
1998 Mr. Olympia
1999 Arnold Classic

exactly Bobs, the greats always show up for the big events and that just proves that Nasser is one of the all time greats and AT LEAST 3 times uncrowned ripped off Mr. Olympia.

Relentless

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #56 on: January 29, 2009, 05:29:38 PM »
Irrelevent for this sport.  Nobody asks them how much they lift when they are onstage.

True, but it still makes for interesting conversation and banter on message boards!

The_Iron_Disciple

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #57 on: January 29, 2009, 05:31:11 PM »
I'm still confused as to how bodybuilding's a sport ?

Sherief Shalaby

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #58 on: January 29, 2009, 05:32:35 PM »
True, but it still makes for interesting conversation and banter on message boards!

the huge paul dillet too ws not training heavy..

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2009, 05:32:44 PM »
This is HEATH VS LEVRONE


NOT NASSER

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #60 on: January 29, 2009, 05:32:49 PM »
Which is a relatively short period of time.  Nasser faded quickly after the 1999 Arnold and was never the same after that show.

Did he ever tell you what he thinks happened to where he fell down the rankings again so quickly?

That's three and a half years, wouldn't say that's a "short" time.  Besides, I acknowledged he was not as "consistent," but like I said at their respective bests Nasser > Levrone.

Similarly, when discussing Dorian vs. Ronnie nobody compares Dorian of 97 or Ronnie of 2006 or after; you discuss their respective prime.

His placings began to fall after his divorce with his wife, who he no longer had to support him in getting ready for shows, preparing meals, etc. and in general his motivation declined and he started feeling fed with the politics.

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #61 on: January 29, 2009, 05:34:04 PM »
This is HEATH VS LEVRONE


NOT NASSER

Relentless made it open when he challenged to find someone who can beat Levrone.

I'm still confused as to how bodybuilding's a sport ?

Ask your "buddy"  ;D


The_Iron_Disciple

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #62 on: January 29, 2009, 05:38:20 PM »
Relentless made it open when he challenged to find someone who can beat Levrone.

Ask your "buddy"  ;D




* Yawn * You can't beat me, my friend ... you just can't.

brent2741

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #63 on: January 29, 2009, 06:22:06 PM »
Phil and Kev are in 2 diff classes . Kevin was much better.

true that, there is no discussion. Bodybuilding these days is no where near the level it was just 10 years ago, its pretty sad

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #64 on: January 29, 2009, 06:45:49 PM »
Who is the better bodybuilder?

Serious discussion please.


My thoughts:  I'm with Levrone here. Heath does have a better back, but does not beat Levrone in the pre-injury leg department. I also think Heath's arms dominate TOO MUCH, and even Levrone with his huge arms wasn't dominated by them. I also think Heath's strange clavicles/pecs will never allow him to hit a better front pose than Levrone.

In terms of size they're about the same or what?  Wasn't Levrone actually heavier around 98-99?

There is no serious discussion to be had here. Levrone was a bigger, better BBer Hhan heath wil ever be.

Nothing against Heath, the guy has some of the freakiest arms you will ever see. But kevin had some pretty fucking good guns himself and beats Heath everywhere else

Relentless

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #65 on: January 29, 2009, 07:04:52 PM »
That's three and a half years, wouldn't say that's a "short" time.  Besides, I acknowledged he was not as "consistent," but like I said at their respective bests Nasser > Levrone.

Similarly, when discussing Dorian vs. Ronnie nobody compares Dorian of 97 or Ronnie of 2006 or after; you discuss their respective prime.

His placings began to fall after his divorce with his wife, who he no longer had to support him in getting ready for shows, preparing meals, etc. and in general his motivation declined and he started feeling fed with the politics.
 

I won't get into a debate as to whether or not three and a half years is a short amount of time.  Nor will I shove down your throat that WINS count for something...not just seconds and thirds.  Even if second and thirds were of great importance, Kevin registered FOUR runner-up placements at the Olympia...and 10 years apart from his first to last!

Kevin finished second in 1992, 1995, 2000, 2002.  Kevin also did not humiliate himself at the end of his career as Nasser did.  Kevin finished in 3rd place at the 2003 GNC with a torn tricep, then left bodybuilding with his head held up high. 

Kevin also won the Arnold Classic twice to Nasser's one time.  Kevin held the IFBB record for pro wins for a time with 22. 

As great as Nasser was (and I will admit he was an incredible bodybuilder and should have won the Olympia in 1997), he does not have a body of work like Kevin.  If we are comparing their peak, it's impossible to say which is better...although I think most people will prefer Kevin's physique.  Both men were great and would dominate today's IFBB bodybuilders.  The competition today is WEAK compared to the 90s and early 2000s. 

Relentless

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #66 on: January 29, 2009, 07:07:47 PM »
true that, there is no discussion. Bodybuilding these days is no where near the level it was just 10 years ago, its pretty sad

I'm with you 100%.  Remember these genetic freaks?

Relentless

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #67 on: January 29, 2009, 07:11:04 PM »
Where's the quality like this today??

Camel Jockey

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #68 on: January 29, 2009, 07:17:05 PM »
Kevin in my opinion is one of the greatest bodybuilders ever. He competed in an era where there were so many great bodybuilders with the combination of mass and conditioning, yet he was still winning shows or placing in the top 3 consistently. Remember, he's got the second most wins of any pro behind only Ronnie Coleman.

Heath on the other hand is good but amongst a mediocre group of competition. He is structurally flawed and can't hold Kevin's gym bag.

Relentless

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #69 on: January 29, 2009, 07:18:30 PM »
Kevin in my opinion is one of the greatest bodybuilders ever. He competed in an era where there were so many great bodybuilders with the combination of mass and conditioning, yet he was still winning shows or placing in the top 3 consistently. Remember, he's got the second most wins of any pro behind only Ronnie Coleman.

Heath on the other hand is good but amongst a mediocre group of competition. He is structurally flawed and can't hold Kevin's gym bag.

This is one of the most accurate posts I've read in a long time on getbig.  Well done, CJ. 

Heath can't hold Kevin's jock strap.

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #70 on: January 29, 2009, 07:39:17 PM »
This serious discussion isn't serious until we count how many "100 pound dumbell curls in yer face" have been experienced by each contestant.

Clearly, with this in consideration, Levrone wins by a country mile.

regmac

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #71 on: January 29, 2009, 09:09:52 PM »
One thing both have in common is they turned pro real quick. And made a big splash in the pro's.
((-::

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #72 on: January 29, 2009, 09:14:45 PM »
At this point in time, it is not even worthy of comparison.
LEVRONE all the way. Maybe Phil will surpass him, but until it happens,
it's all "Horseshit".

Levrone Rules.

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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #73 on: January 29, 2009, 09:25:36 PM »
 

I won't get into a debate as to whether or not three and a half years is a short amount of time.  Nor will I shove down your throat that WINS count for something...not just seconds and thirds.  Even if second and thirds were of great importance, Kevin registered FOUR runner-up placements at the Olympia...and 10 years apart from his first to last!

Kevin finished second in 1992, 1995, 2000, 2002.  Kevin also did not humiliate himself at the end of his career as Nasser did.  Kevin finished in 3rd place at the 2003 GNC with a torn tricep, then left bodybuilding with his head held up high. 

Kevin also won the Arnold Classic twice to Nasser's one time.  Kevin held the IFBB record for pro wins for a time with 22. 

As great as Nasser was (and I will admit he was an incredible bodybuilder and should have won the Olympia in 1997), he does not have a body of work like Kevin.  If we are comparing their peak, it's impossible to say which is better...although I think most people will prefer Kevin's physique.  Both men were great and would dominate today's IFBB bodybuilders.  The competition today is WEAK compared to the 90s and early 2000s. 

I agree, Kevin is one of the all-time greats and also possibly an "uncrowned" Mr. Olympia, but at his best he never looked better than Nasser of 95 to 99 (minus Nasser at the 99 Olympia where he came in a bit too small), but at the 95 O, 96 O, 97 O, 98 O, 97 AC, 98 AC, or 99 AC Nasser looked better than any version of Kevin.  That's why he was given greater odds over Kevin to win the 98 Olympia when there was much speculation as Dorian retired.


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Re: SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Kevin Levrone vs. Phil Heath
« Reply #74 on: January 29, 2009, 09:33:43 PM »
Kevin knew that putting endless amounts of oil(not hormones) in your body will catch up to you...Thats why 6 months out of the year he didn't...

Heath's mentor however is Cutler who can be seen in a tank top 360 days out of the year...And rumor has it pumps more bogus oil in his body then Flex Wheeler could ever dream of...

And by the looks of Heath lately, he is doing the same things...Heath may look great over the next 5 years, but after that, he will be done...