Author Topic: roid rage  (Read 3109 times)

shrek

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2009, 11:29:54 AM »
That can be normal for some, I mean we are playing with hormones here.
thats cool cause my ole lady has even noticed that ill do that and she said ask the guys so thanks 4th,,,, one more thing is going to get worse during PCT?

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2009, 01:18:44 PM »
ok well i have a cifferent situation then roid rage,,,, my deal is i am more sensitive to breakdowns and crying over things that i useally bottle up and yes i eat my anti e's
yeah, that seems more normal, clomid and nolva only block estrogen from the breast, not system wide estrogen.
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shrek

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2009, 02:14:29 PM »
i also have letro and adex

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2009, 02:51:10 PM »
i also have letro and adex

in studies letro eradicates all estrogen in the body, how do you take it ?
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4thAD

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2009, 03:25:43 PM »
letro nor adex gets rid of all estrogen in the body. Maybe if you really over did it, it could. 2.5mg letro will lower estrogens 46-62% depending on age. Letro is good for PCT, but aromasin is even better.

shrek

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2009, 03:26:24 PM »
in studies letro eradicates all estrogen in the body, how do you take it ?
i use my adex e3rd day if i feel my tits are off ill eat letro for 3 days and on the first day i will take a nolva to stop any more estro going to my existent gyno after the letro my chest feels fine

4thAD

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2009, 03:28:45 PM »
thats cool cause my ole lady has even noticed that ill do that and she said ask the guys so thanks 4th,,,, one more thing is going to get worse during PCT?

Yes this could get worse in PCT. Clomid makes some people really emotional.

shrek

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2009, 03:29:29 PM »
Yes this could get worse in PCT. Clomid makes some people really emotional.
damn that aint cool

4thAD

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2009, 03:32:16 PM »
you'll be OK just expect that it might happen, and prepare for it.

shrek

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2009, 03:33:42 PM »
you'll be OK just expect that it might happen, and prepare for it.
yeah i got plenty of everything ill need i will just up my ECA i feel better when i am on uppers

1-503rd_IN

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2009, 04:20:59 PM »
clomid makes me nut like a porn star..............
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Re: roid rage
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2009, 05:07:51 PM »
I felt like a bitch on Nolvadex, can't imagine Clomid.

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2009, 07:11:08 PM »
letro nor adex gets rid of all estrogen in the body. Maybe if you really over did it, it could. 2.5mg letro will lower estrogens 46-62% depending on age. Letro is good for PCT, but aromasin is even better.

sorry 4thad, that is not true. it get's rid of 100% in this study:

Aromatase inhibition, testosterone, and seizures.Harden C, MacLusky NJ.
Department of Neurology and Neuroscience, Comprehensive Epilepsy Center, Weill Medical College of Cornell University, New York, NY, USA. clharden@med.cornell.edu

The effect of testosterone on brain excitability is unclear. The excitatory aspect of testosterone's action in the brain may be due to its conversion to estrogen via aromatase. We report herein a 61-year-old man with temporal lobe epilepsy and sexual dysfunction due to low testosterone levels. Use of an aromatase inhibitor, letrozole, normalized his testosterone level and improved his sexual functioning. Letrozole, in addition to standard antiseizure medication, was also associated with improved seizure control. This was sustained and, further, was associated with seizure exacerbation after withdrawing letrozole, and subsequent seizure improvement after restarting it. During the course of treatment, his serum testosterone level increased, sex hormone-binding globulin decreased (SHBG), luteinizing hormone (LH), and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) levels increased, while serum estradiol levels remained undetectable . Letrozole may, therefore, have produced a central alteration in the testosterone/estrogen ratio, thereby impairing estrogen-mediated feedback control of the pituitary, resulting in the observed increase in circulating LH and FSH levels. This experience suggests that aromatase inhibitors should be further investigated as a beneficial treatment modality for male patients with epilepsy.

and 98% in this one:

Aromatase inhibition: translation into a successful therapeutic approach.Geisler J, Lønning PE.
Department of Medicine, Section of Oncology, Haukeland University Hospital, Bergen, Norway.

The development of the novel third-generation aromatase inhibitors and inactivators for breast cancer treatment is one of the most successful contemporary achievements in cancer therapy. Parallel to studies evaluating toxicity and clinical efficacy in metastatic disease, the endocrine effects of multiple compounds were evaluated, leading to the identification of the highly potent third-generation aromatase inhibitors based on estrogen deprivation and aromatase inhibition in vivo. Thus, translational studies have been of vital importance identifying the unique characteristics of these compounds. Whereas first- and second-generation aromatase inhibitors inhibit estrogen synthesis in vivo by up to 90%, the third-generation compounds anastrozole, exemestane, and letrozole were found to cause > or =98% aromatase inhibition. This article summarizes and discusses the "translational research" that provided the background for the implementation of the third-generation aromatase inhibitors and inactivators into large clinical trials. The need for future translational research exploiting the mechanisms of resistance to these compounds for future improvement of endocrine therapy is emphasized.
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shrek

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2009, 07:12:01 PM »
googler

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2009, 07:16:34 PM »
i use my adex e3rd day if i feel my tits are off ill eat letro for 3 days and on the first day i will take a nolva to stop any more estro going to my existent gyno after the letro my chest feels fine

the letro has a 2-4 day half life, it also can cause estrogen rebound when you come off, so stoping and starting is probably causing your sex hormones to go haywire.

i would personally leave it out and stick with the adex untill you finished your cycle. then if you have slight gyno try the anti gyno letro protocol.

googler
  well i'm not funding and running these studies myself  :D
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shrek

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2009, 08:01:38 PM »
the letro has a 2-4 day half life, it also can cause estrogen rebound when you come off, so stoping and starting is probably causing your sex hormones to go haywire.

i would personally leave it out and stick with the adex untill you finished your cycle. then if you have slight gyno try the anti gyno letro protocol.
 
really i thought you should use letro at the point where you need a strong one and then get off of it

4thAD

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2009, 09:45:03 PM »
I'd like to know more info on these studies, because I have posted recent studies that show this not to be the case.

4thAD

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2009, 09:46:04 PM »
sorry 4thad, that is not true. it get's rid of 100% in this study:

Aromatase inhibition, testosterone, and seizures.Harden C, MacLusky NJ.
Department of Neurology and Neuroscience, Comprehensive Epilepsy Center, Weill Medical College of Cornell University, New York, NY, USA. clharden@med.cornell.edu

The effect of testosterone on brain excitability is unclear. The excitatory aspect of testosterone's action in the brain may be due to its conversion to estrogen via aromatase. We report herein a 61-year-old man with temporal lobe epilepsy and sexual dysfunction due to low testosterone levels. Use of an aromatase inhibitor, letrozole, normalized his testosterone level and improved his sexual functioning. Letrozole, in addition to standard antiseizure medication, was also associated with improved seizure control. This was sustained and, further, was associated with seizure exacerbation after withdrawing letrozole, and subsequent seizure improvement after restarting it. During the course of treatment, his serum testosterone level increased, sex hormone-binding globulin decreased (SHBG), luteinizing hormone (LH), and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) levels increased, while serum estradiol levels remained undetectable . Letrozole may, therefore, have produced a central alteration in the testosterone/estrogen ratio, thereby impairing estrogen-mediated feedback control of the pituitary, resulting in the observed increase in circulating LH and FSH levels. This experience suggests that aromatase inhibitors should be further investigated as a beneficial treatment modality for male patients with epilepsy.

and 98% in this one:

Aromatase inhibition: translation into a successful therapeutic approach.Geisler J, Lønning PE.
Department of Medicine, Section of Oncology, Haukeland University Hospital, Bergen, Norway.

The development of the novel third-generation aromatase inhibitors and inactivators for breast cancer treatment is one of the most successful contemporary achievements in cancer therapy. Parallel to studies evaluating toxicity and clinical efficacy in metastatic disease, the endocrine effects of multiple compounds were evaluated, leading to the identification of the highly potent third-generation aromatase inhibitors based on estrogen deprivation and aromatase inhibition in vivo. Thus, translational studies have been of vital importance identifying the unique characteristics of these compounds. Whereas first- and second-generation aromatase inhibitors inhibit estrogen synthesis in vivo by up to 90%, the third-generation compounds anastrozole, exemestane, and letrozole were found to cause > or =98% aromatase inhibition. This article summarizes and discusses the "translational research" that provided the background for the implementation of the third-generation aromatase inhibitors and inactivators into large clinical trials. The need for future translational research exploiting the mechanisms of resistance to these compounds for future improvement of endocrine therapy is emphasized.


This is interesting info, and I will be looking further into this. This study does not show the dose that was given and one of the studies is only on one 61 yo man. Does the other medication affect estrogen? I don't know, but I have posted the studies which show a 46-62% decrease in estrogen dependent on age!

Fatpanda

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2009, 06:18:28 AM »
This is interesting info, and I will be looking further into this. This study does not show the dose that was given and one of the studies is only on one 61 yo man. Does the other medication affect estrogen? I don't know, but I have posted the studies which show a 46-62% decrease in estrogen dependent on age!

if you have a link to them i'd like to read them  :)
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4thAD

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2009, 09:01:27 AM »
Ive posted them on the board numerous times in the past.

Fatpanda

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2009, 02:25:00 PM »
i found them after a search.

the study titled:

Comparative Assessment in Young and Elderly Men of the Gonadotropin Response to Aromatase Inhibition

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/90/10/5717?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=1&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&fulltext=SHBG&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=200&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

was very interesting, and basically shows that letro only gets rid of 100% of estrogen in some subjects - namely 61 year old males   :-\  :-[

still, at least i learned something  :)
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4thAD

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2009, 03:42:51 PM »
I'm always learning on these boards bro, thats why I'm here. I hate to admit, but even Tbombz has taught me a thing or two, and has made me think even more than that. I just had this discussion with my Guru(the guy I look too in these situations), and he pointed out a couple of things to remember. 1) the studies are almost always run on people with natural estrogen levels. Whether they be high or not, still natural. 2) when on 500mg test your test levels can be around 5x normal, and a dose of letro @ 2.5mg will bring down the estrogen, but probably not even to a normal level. Just something to think about. ;D

Fatpanda

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Re: roid rage
« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2009, 04:32:56 PM »
I'm always learning on these boards bro, thats why I'm here. I hate to admit, but even Tbombz has taught me a thing or two, and has made me think even more than that. I just had this discussion with my Guru(the guy I look too in these situations), and he pointed out a couple of things to remember. 1) the studies are almost always run on people with natural estrogen levels. Whether they be high or not, still natural. 2) when on 500mg test your test levels can be around 5x normal, and a dose of letro @ 2.5mg will bring down the estrogen, but probably not even to a normal level. Just something to think about. ;D

tbombz posts have taught me some things too. Deep tissue massages mostly  ;D :-X
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