Author Topic: Law Degree (Read 20438 times)

pugalist666 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:29:36 PM »

forget law school , just make money the way this guy does

MuscleMcMannus · « **Reply #26 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:29:52 PM »

Quote from: BerzerkFury on March 17, 2009, 01:24:06 PM

MuscleMcAnus is a nurse folks. He's THE definitive authority on the economy.

Is that you, Focker?

Hey fuck you asshole! While every one and their brother is getting laid off and sucking off the government tit my ass is getting overtime, bonuses, 7% raises every year. Is it the most exciting, glorious job in the world. Of course not. But right now it pays my bills and then some. What the fuck do you do for a living smart ass except sit around and play with your dick on getbig?

?

pumpster · « **Reply #27 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:34:48 PM »

Quote from: clownbaby on March 17, 2009, 01:23:24 PM

As someone who just graduated and took the bar exam, my recommendation is that the debt incurred to go to law school may not be worth it. As someone mentioned it earlier the high paying corporate jobs are disappearing and more lawyers are having to settle for public sector and smaller private firms that don't pay that well.

You're basically taking a position here rather than being entirely objective. The cost-benefit depends on many variables including the cost of the particular school, the type of work one goes in to afterwards, etc. Even you admit it "may" not be worth it-inconclusive.

pumpster · « **Reply #28 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:35:59 PM »

Quote from: MuscleMcMannus on March 17, 2009, 01:28:00 PM

Actually............. the existing economy is in crisis. Are you delusional? You honestly think things are going to change anytime soon? Some things will change in the future? What? What is going to change the direction of America? More wars? More bailouts? Corporations are bankrupt. Look at GE!!!!!!!!!!! Get back to me a year from now and we'll see if you have the rosy picture of the economy as you do now. Advising ANY young person to head off to college and pile up loads of debt is assinine advice right now. They are better off working a menial dead end service job, staying debt free, and educating themselves or getting some sort of technical degree. The professional white collar workforce ala overpriced higher education is being decimated. Law, medicine, etc. Nobody wants to go into medicine right now, especially primary care/family practice. The only ones heading into medicine right now are minorities from other countries i.e. Asians, Arabs/Persians, Indians etc. What's going on across the world has never happened before is unlike anything we've ever seen before, even the great depression. Eastern Europe is about the implode. Then Europe, and then the US. Wait and see.

Meltdown AKA very short term perspective, as in knee-jerk.

Fury · « **Reply #29 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:45:20 PM »

Quote from: MuscleMcMannus on March 17, 2009, 01:29:52 PM

Hey fuck you asshole! While every one and their brother is getting laid off and sucking off the government tit my ass is getting overtime, bonuses, 7% raises every year. Is it the most exciting, glorious job in the world. Of course not. But right now it pays my bills and then some. What the fuck do you do for a living smart ass except sit around and play with your dick on getbig??

Calm down, Focker! You been puffing the magic dragon again?

MuscleMcMannus · « **Reply #30 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:54:19 PM »

Quote from: BerzerkFury on March 17, 2009, 01:45:20 PM

Calm down, Focker! You been puffing the magic dragon again?

So don't dodge the question. You had the balls to call me out.......what do you do for a living?

clownbaby · « **Reply #31 on:** March 17, 2009, 02:01:38 PM »

Quote from: pumpster on March 17, 2009, 01:34:48 PM

You're basically taking a position here rather than being entirely objective. The cost-benefit depends on many variables including the cost of the particular school, the type of work one goes in to afterwards, etc. Even you admit it "may" not be worth it-inconclusive.

hahah any aba accredited law school(which is required to take most state bars) will run you about 120k+ now add the price of an undergraduate education and you have almost a quarter of million dollars in education. Now add over 3+ years spent in class. Then realize you may have to take a job that pays 40 or 50k. From an economic standpoint the time and money it may not be objectively worth it. The vast majority of law students are not going to be graduating and getting a six figure job.

pumpster · « **Reply #32 on:** March 17, 2009, 02:04:24 PM »

Quote from: clownbaby on March 17, 2009, 02:01:38 PM

hahah any aba accredited law school(which is required to take most state bars) will run you about 120k+ now add the price of an undergraduate education and you have almost a quarter of million dollars in education. Now add over 3+ years spent in class. Then realize you may have to take a job that pays 40 or 50k. From an economic standpoint the time and money it may not be objectively worth it. The vast majority of law students are not going to be graduating and getting a six figure job.

You keep using the work "may", thereby throwing your argument into disaray once again. The last thing i'd want is you representing me, with such shaky arguments. Imagine in legal circles lol In your case in particular, forget law!

As far as the costs you quote, those are ridiculous generalizations. Poor argument once again, almost as weak as your continued backpeddle through the use of "may" lol

MuscleMcMannus · « **Reply #33 on:** March 17, 2009, 02:38:23 PM »

Quote from: pumpster on March 17, 2009, 02:04:24 PM

You keep using the work "may", thereby throwing your argument into disaray once again. I can see now why you're so pessimistic-you're not compelling in your argument here so imagine in legal circles lol In your case in particular, forget law!

As far as the costs you quote, those are ridiculous generalizations. Poor argument once again, almost as weak as your continued backpeddle through the use of "may" lol

Ok genius so what do you do for a living that makes you such an expert on college education and employment? Law school is a waste of money right now when you look at current job prospects for the next 10 years. There are better choices that require less money, less time, and are just as lucrative. You seem to have the mindset that the thousands upon thousands of kids that go to law school and graduate every year are landing these great jobs ala Mark Garagos making hundreds of thousands of dollars. That's naive and moronic. Just ask law grads in the past few years what their prospects have been.

pumpster · « **Reply #34 on:** March 17, 2009, 02:41:05 PM »

Quote from: MuscleMcMannus on March 17, 2009, 02:38:23 PM

Ok genius so what do you do for a living that makes you such an expert on college education and employment? Law school is a waste of money right now when you look at current job prospects for the next 10 years. There are better choices that require less money, less time, and are just as lucrative. You seem to have the mindset that the thousands upon thousands of kids that go to law school and graduate every year are landing these great jobs ala Mark Garagos making hundreds of thousands of dollars. That's naive and moronic. Just ask law grads in the past few years what their prospects have been.

The way you talk in blacks and whites and focus on "right now" only is frightening lol

MuscleMcMannus · « **Reply #35 on:** March 17, 2009, 03:04:57 PM »

Quote from: pumpster on March 17, 2009, 02:41:05 PM

The way you talk in blacks and whites and focus on "right now" only is frightening lol

Dude don't dodge the question. What do you do for a living?

Tesla · « **Reply #36 on:** March 17, 2009, 04:01:40 PM »

One of my friends went to law school and has been unable to find any work that will allow him to pay off his ludicrous law school loans. I feel bad for him but at the same time no one forced him to take on that much debt.

There is a gross oversupply of lawyers right now. Anyone contemplating a law career should check out this site, run by attorneys with decades of experience:

http://endofesq.com/

clownbaby · « **Reply #37 on:** March 17, 2009, 04:15:29 PM »

Quote from: pumpster on March 17, 2009, 02:04:24 PM

You keep using the work "may", thereby throwing your argument into disaray once again. The last thing i'd want is you representing me, with such shaky arguments. Imagine in legal circles lol In your case in particular, forget law!

As far as the costs you quote, those are ridiculous generalizations. Poor argument once again, almost as weak as your continued backpeddle through the use of "may" lol

ridiculous generalizations?? I am talking about the majority of American law schools that are ranked by U.S. news. These are cold hard facts not "arguments".

By the way, aren't you an obese pedophile? I do not plan on doing blue collar criminal defense representation so you do not have to worry about running "legal circles" around me

MuscleMcMannus · « **Reply #38 on:** March 17, 2009, 04:17:23 PM »

Quote from: clownbaby on March 17, 2009, 04:15:29 PM

ridiculous generalizations?? I am talking about the majority of American law schools that are ranked by U.S. news. These are cold hard facts not "arguments".

By the way, aren't you an obese pedophile? I do not plan on doing blue collar criminal defense representation so you do not have to worry about running "legal circles" around me

Pumpster keeps dodging my question asking what he does for a living, typical.

NarcissisticDeity · « **Reply #39 on:** March 17, 2009, 04:19:58 PM »

Quote from: MuscleMcMannus on March 17, 2009, 04:17:23 PM

Pumpster keeps dodging my question asking what he does for a living, typical.

He's a Bowflex salesman

clownbaby · « **Reply #40 on:** March 17, 2009, 04:25:01 PM »

the obese pedophile came on this law thread to try and argue and feel like a lawyer. haha so sad

Camel Jockey · « **Reply #41 on:** March 17, 2009, 08:02:27 PM »

A law degree (Jurist Doctor) is not easy to get tons of reading and writing.

And as 240 said, get your undergrad in something useful. A lot of people study finance or accounting before law school because they want to specialize in tax law.

pumpster · « **Reply #42 on:** March 17, 2009, 08:05:10 PM »

Quote from: NarcissisticDeity on March 17, 2009, 04:19:58 PM

He's a Bowflex salesman

lol talk about embarassing pumpster obsession from my stalker.

BayGBM · « **Reply #43 on:** March 17, 2009, 08:19:41 PM »

Quote from: RonPaulFan on March 17, 2009, 11:24:17 AM

How tuff is it to get a Law Degree?

Quote from: RonPaulFan on March 17, 2009, 12:00:12 PM

I dont really know what to do with my life. I love to argue, and if I could make up my mind and set a goal I would reach it.

Not that hard. You can do it in three years (full time) or four years (part time); a handful of schools now offer a two year J.D. but you go through the summer as well. There are pros and cons to this…

Unlike a doctorate (which is often open ended and many people drop out before finishing), the J.D. course of study is very prescribed; you take the classes, pass the tests, and you get the degree. But law school, and the profession, is not really about “arguing.” Many casual observers have this impression of law because that is what is featured in TV and movies, but most lawyers never set foot into a courtroom or engage in the kinds of back and forth one sees on television. Showing lawyers buried with hours of paper work is not dramatic so you don’t see that in popular media.

Many people assume that lawyers make a ton of money; that is not true. Do actors make a lot of money? Certainly, there are actors who make $25 million per picture, but there are also actors who work in community theatre and make $12K per year. The top people in any profession tend to make a lot of money and that is true in law as well.

Many prospective students assume they will be making big bucks in a firm, but there are lots of lawyers (perhaps a majority) making something like $40-70K and struggling to pay their law school debt. Unless you have someone willing to pay your tuition, you will leave law school with HUGE debt. How will you pay it if you do not end up in a plum job? Every year, hordes of graduating students have to answer this question.

Historically, law has been a prestige profession; it continues to be. As a practical matter what this means is that you must go to the right law school to improve your career prospects. Law schools are divided into tiers. If at all possible, you want to go to a first tier law school. Second tier schools are good too. I would not bother with a third or fourth tier school. People who went to 3rd and 4th tier schools will hate me for saying that but it is true. Again, law is a prestige profession. The people who say they don’t care about this are people who did not get into a 1st or 2nd tier school. Of course, it is entirely possible to attend a 3rd or 4th tier school and go on to have a very successful career.

When I was in law school (in California) the internet was booming and everyone was graduating and going into high tech… we all know how that turned out. I was a law school admissions dean back in the day. If you have specific questions you can send me a private message.

Camel Jockey · « **Reply #44 on:** March 17, 2009, 08:25:14 PM »

Bay is spot on. I know this might sound silly but to be successful in the law field you have to be extremely self motivated, so it isn't something you'd pick because you can't think of anything else to do.

I have a cousin who's an attorney and he oversees the writing of corporate contracts. He rakes in the dough but the guy is something else. He planned it till he was a kid and his parents made sure he was well connected enough and had minimal debt after the completion of school.

Not trying to deter you RPF, but listen to BAY.

body88 · « **Reply #45 on:** March 17, 2009, 08:29:17 PM »

Quote from: 240 is Back on March 17, 2009, 12:46:14 PM

what year of college are you in?

get a useful bachelors, so youll have the option to go into law, or just enter the workforce. get a degree in something you'll use in your area of law.

dont get an english or communications degree. please don't get a communications degree lol...

A communications degree is a good way to go if you know how to use it. How much money are you making per year? Exactly what do you do? What real world experience do you have in the business world or in major markets? Who have you worked for? What have you done? What jobs have you held?

240 is Back · « **Reply #46 on:** March 17, 2009, 09:42:26 PM »

Quote from: body88 on March 17, 2009, 08:29:17 PM

A communications degree is a good way to go if you know how to use it. How much money are you making per year? Exactly what do you do? What real world experience do you have in the business world or in major markets? Who have you worked for? What have you done? What jobs have you held?

If a person is talented, any degree can be enough. Heck, many people are millionaires and don't have any college at all.

I worked in the college career center at my university and we had a steady stream of seniors with minimal job opportunities and skills because 'communications' is a very weak degree. I'm not crapping on you if you have one - just stating that from my experience, it didn't help many people in a way that a business, marketing, journalism, or other degree would have. Too general, maybe. Of course, you give jay Z or Bill gates this degree and they'll crush the world. I just mean for the average person, it's weak.

240 is Back · « **Reply #47 on:** March 17, 2009, 09:45:00 PM »

Quote from: body88 on March 17, 2009, 08:29:17 PM

What real world experience do you have in the business world or in major markets? Who have you worked for? What have you done? What jobs have you held?

Personally, I led a team of dotnetnuke and xml programmers.
I taught grades 2 thru 8.
I wrote curriculum and taught microsoft networking.
i ran a 200+ node school network.
i designed and ran 40% of a university website for almost 2 years

i also bagged groceries for a long time at winn dixie, probably the most fun job of all.

badlad · « **Reply #48 on:** March 18, 2009, 02:37:10 AM »

My wife is working fulltime and doing a law degree right now - it's a hell of alot of work and can be stressful at times but you just have to keep on going. I did my BA also while working full and part time and my MA while working fulltime so it can all be done but it takes a fair bit of discipline and determination. Many times I wanted to quit but you just have to keep on keeping on. Funny thing is my current vocation employs none of the disciplines I studied while at university. So make sure you elect to study something that you are actually going to use - it helps.

HarleyBreite · « **Reply #49 on:** March 18, 2009, 05:10:51 AM »

Quote from: BayGBM on March 17, 2009, 08:19:41 PM

I would not bother with a third or fourth tier school. People who went to 3rd and 4th tier schools will hate me for saying that but it is true. Again, law is a prestige profession. The people who say they don’t care about this are people who did not get into a 1st or 2nd tier school.

Hey Professor,
I respectfully disagree. I have been a sole practitioner for 16 years and went to a 4th tier law school (New York Law School). After my first year, I was, academically speaking, ranked 240 out of a total 247 students.
It's not the school you go to that matters, it's what you do when you get out. The Bar exam doesn't know from which school you graduated; you either pass or you fail and everyone will agree that a 6 week prep course will teach you far more about the "law" than three years of law school.
Law is not a "prestige" profession in terms of intellectual requirements. There can be little dispute that doctors are much more intelligent than lawyers and will score higher on any standardized exam. I was a Bio-Chem and Philosophy major in college (Rutgers College, New Brunswick, again, not a top tier school) and the science guys were much smarter than the "communication" guys.
Law school doesn't prepare you for a career in law which led me to pursue an LL.M.(Master of Laws) in Trial Advocacy from Temple University Law School. Finally, a practical teaching of the law. Law school will very often cause more confusion as to where a person wishes to spend his occupational career.
And for those of you who think law school is too difficult for you to attend, you couldn't be more wrong. It's all about investing enough time in studying and reading. I later spent two years full time in a Ph.D. program which made law school seem like a kindergarten class. Any of you guys who can devote your time and energy to bodybuilding should be able to extrapolate that dedication to attending and graduating law school. And remember, not everyone wants to work for a big fancy firm that will look to see just who your parents know and associate with before hiring you.
It's not that I hate my own profession, I just think it's silly to exaggerate what it takes to achieve a law degree and those who inflate their own egos by perpetuating myths are too insecure to admit the truth. It's a nice profession which can serve many good purposes and provide for a comfortable living.