Author Topic: Fed Ex to cancel billion(s) dollar contract with Boeing over "Card Check" Bill  (Read 5719 times)

Soul Crusher

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Bargaining occurs btn two parties, not two extremes.  Otherwise management holds all the cards.

I am thinking of a workplace from decades ago.  Corporate elitests and republicans have effectively killed unions b/c they are greedy bastards that would just as soon go back to feudal organization rather than pay a fair day's wage.

The workers create the wealth.  Remember that.

Everyone has their role, but workers are  part of the situtation, not the entire factor.  Without smart management, good products, new ideas, innovation, ingenuity, etc, those workers will be on the unemployment line.

Soul Crusher

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I'm not crying.  Do you think you can stop insulting me with shit like that and discuss this like an adult?

This thread, which you started, is about FedEX - a giant corporation.  Somehow you've gotten it into your head that all small businesses will be unionized by the FAA bill.

What the hell are you talking about?

Its about "Card Check" which is listed in the article.  Small businesses are very greatly affected by this bill.

shootfighter1

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I know first hand what its like dealing with a large unionized government system.  People are just different, attitudes change, things take longer to get done, only certain people can do certain work because of limitations on job descriptions, job orders, people being promoted that shouldn't....its just a host of things.  There are drawn out disputes with lawyers and extra cost involved.  I suppose if unions were better regulated and given better general boundries, it may not be as bad.  I am all for protecting our workers if the system isn't inefficient, create innapropriate red tape and excessively increase cost...but most do.

I just don't believe we should be making it easier for unions to enter corporations in 2009 no matter the percentage of unionized companies.  Their inefficiencies make it tougher for us to compete in a global economy.

Decker

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Look at the industries that are unionized - Failure, Waste, Fraud, and Abuse!  Auto's, Education, Govt Employees,



 
Would you care to quantify any of your conclusions with a fact or two?  I think you'll be surprised.  Especially with government.  B/c gov. does a whole lot of things more efficiently than private enterprise ever could.

Decker

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Everyone has their role, but workers are  part of the situtation, not the entire factor.  Without smart management, good products, new ideas, innovation, ingenuity, etc, those workers will be on the unemployment line.
Workers are not the entire factor.

Neither is management.

So why should executive pay explode some 800% over the last 20 years while labor's pay has flat lined?


Soul Crusher

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Workers are not the entire factor.

Neither is management.

So why should executive pay explode some 800% over the last 20 years while labor's pay has flat lined?



Again, unless you are for strict government laws mandating salaries, these things are going to happen. 

Employees are free to leave, go work somewhere else, or start their own business.

I dont know what the heck you really are advocating unless you want to do away with any and all freedom of choices of people.

If someone is not happy where they work, let them go somewhere else. 
 

Decker

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Its about "Card Check" which is listed in the article.  Small businesses are very greatly affected by this bill.
Where is card check listed in the article?

Card Check legislation adds transparency to a right to unionize.  That right already exists.

Decker

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Again, unless you are for strict government laws mandating salaries, these things are going to happen. 

Employees are free to leave, go work somewhere else, or start their own business.
They are also free to organize and join a union.

Quote
I dont know what the heck you really are advocating unless you want to do away with any and all freedom of choices of people.

If someone is not happy where they work, let them go somewhere else. 
Yeah, sure.  Why are you so afraid of an even-handed bargaining arrangement?  I think you devalue labor unfairly.  You don't respect the workforce.  Executive America sure as hell does not respect its workers.  This is where strikes are important.  Shut down production for a month or two and see how much wealth these Executive parasites generate.  (yeah I know they play a role in the organizational aspects of the business but they over-value their worth).
 

Soul Crusher

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Where is card check listed in the article?

Card Check legislation adds transparency to a right to unionize.  That right already exists.

Its in the first sentence and they are referring to the card check bill.. 

Soul Crusher

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They are also free to organize and join a union.
Yeah, sure.  Why are you so afraid of an even-handed bargaining arrangement?  I think you devalue labor unfairly.  You don't respect the workforce.  Executive America sure as hell does not respect its workers.  This is where strikes are important.  Shut down production for a month or two and see how much wealth these Executive parasites generate.  (yeah I know they play a role in the organizational aspects of the business but they over-value their worth).



Its not the pay so much as it is the onerous work rules and red tape that goes along with it. 

big L dawg

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former union buster speaks the truth
DAWG

Soul Crusher

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former union buster speaks the truth

I have personally dealt with Union DC 9 in NYC - its the Painters Union.  They are thugs plain and simple and intimiate the workers, not eh companies.

The govt unions terrorize the taxpayer more than anything else. 

Decker

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Its in the first sentence and they are referring to the card check bill.. 
Thanks.

Decker

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I have personally dealt with Union DC 9 in NYC - its the Painters Union.  They are thugs plain and simple and intimiate the workers, not eh companies.

The govt unions terrorize the taxpayer more than anything else. 
I have to go ahead and disagree with you on this one.  The northern teachers unions get significantly better results than their non-organized counterparts in the south.  They aren't thugs.

How do govt. unions terrorize tax payers?  Is it the job security?  The good pay?  The vacation time?  The good work product?  Are mailmen secretly abusing their position and taking it out on the average american?

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While unions may not always be fair or good... Their greed trickles to the middle class much more than executive greed ever did.

I will be fair and give credit where it is due... Todays middle class America was directly created by Unions.

Without them, there would simply be the elite and the poverty stricken.

Soul Crusher

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I have to go ahead and disagree with you on this one.  The northern teachers unions get significantly better results than their non-organized counterparts in the south.  They aren't thugs.

How do govt. unions terrorize tax payers?  Is it the job security?  The good pay?  The vacation time?  The good work product?  Are mailmen secretly abusing their position and taking it out on the average american?

I live in NYC.  The governor had to layoff 9000 state employees today because the Unions would not negotiate on pay raises that are slated for next year when our state is broke.

These greedy unions sacrificed 9000 jobs rather than negoaite on a pay raise.  

That is what I am talking about.   The Unions dont give a crap about their workers, only the union bosses at the top, no different than the corporations whom they deal with.        

big L dawg

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DAWG

Decker

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I live in NYC.  The governor had to layoff 9000 state employees today because the Unions would not negotiate on pay raises that are slated for next year when our state is broke.

These greedy unions sacrificed 9000 jobs rather than negoaite on a pay raise.  

That is what I am talking about.   The Unions dont give a crap about their workers, only the union bosses at the top, no different than the corporations whom they deal with.        
That's interesting.  B/c if you look at the UAW, it's recent history has been to cave to every single demand that management made for concessions. 

That's a strange sounding situation re the teachers.  Do you have any stories to link?

The fact of the matter is is that without collective bargaining power, labor is at a distinct disadvantage in sharing in a company's earnings.  This creates a soft dictatorial arrangement in the business world.  The whole name of the game is bargaining.  What is wrong with that?

Soul Crusher

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Paterson announces 8,900 state layoffs
By Joseph Spector • Albany Bureau • March 25, 2009

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ALBANY - Gov. David Paterson announced yesterday plans to lay off 8,900 state workers amid a state budget deficit that has soared by an additional $2.2 billion because of a declining economy.

The decision by Paterson would likely hit every state agency that is under the governor's control, such as transportation workers, prison guards and nurses.


The layoffs represent nearly 5 percent of the state's roughly 200,000 workforce and are another blow to the state where new unemployment claims have reached a staggering 39,000 per week, an increase of more than 20,000 compared to a year ago.

In a memo to agency commissioners, Director of State Operations Dennis Whalen wrote that concessions from labor unions could not be reached, so layoffs will be needed.

Paterson had proposed that workers forego a planned 3 percent pay increase in April and a week's pay next year, as well as some pension and health-insurance cuts.

"Unfortunately, the labor organizations representing state employees have rejected all of the savings options put forward by the Paterson administration," Whalen wrote in a memo to agency heads. "As a result, the state is left with no other option to achieve needed savings other than implementing a workforce reduction plan."
It's unclear what agencies would be affected most, but it will take several months to carry out the layoffs, officials said.

Also, it's unknown how many jobs can be eliminated through attrition, but most are expected to be layoffs, aides said. Each agency will have to submit a list of potential cuts.

State budget officials said the layoffs would save the state about $480 million over two years.

Agencies that are not under the governor's direct control - such as state colleges and universities as well as the attorney general's office, comptroller and public authorities - would not be affected. Of the 200,000 state jobs, 141,000 are under the governor's control.

Public-employee unions railed against the move. Unions have been battling Paterson over proposed health-care and education cuts in his 2009-10 budget proposal.

"We've been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but if Gov. Paterson really believes putting nearly 9,000 New Yorkers out of work is a good idea, he really is out of touch with life on Main Street," said CSEA President Danny Donohue.

Ken Brynien, president of the Public Employees Federation, said unions offered ways to cut the state's deficit, such as reducing the state's use of consultants and overtime costs.

"There is absolutely no need to do layoffs. It will not save the money that the governor thinks it will," he said. "PEF's position is clear and unchanged. We will not agree to any changes in our contract that reduce compensation."

Paterson's announcement came just hours after state officials announced the budget deficit grew by another $2.2 billion, bringing the funding gap to an unprecedented $16.2 billion.

Paterson and legislative leaders said the state's weak economy is lowering revenue projections for the 2009-10 fiscal year, which starts April 1.

The loss of additional revenue complicates leaders' efforts to pass a state budget by the April 1 deadline.

"I will take whatever actions are necessary to get our fiscal house in order and eliminate this deficit," Paterson said in a statement.

Paterson, whose popularity is at record lows in recent polls, did not take questions from the media after his only public event yesterday at the Capitol.

E.J. McMahon, director of the Manhattan Institute's Empire Center for New York State Policy, said the layoffs are an appropriate step but should have been started earlier in the year. He said layoffs would need to be conducted by seniority, so the newest workers would be the first to lose their jobs.

"If he was going to seriously threaten this, the machinery should have been in motion by the beginning of the year," McMahon said. "Now it just sort of comes out of the blue."

Legislative leaders and Paterson met behind closed doors again yesterday for budget talks.

The growing deficit and the layoffs add to the likelihood that lawmakers and Paterson may decide to increase income taxes on the wealthy, a move sought by the unions and education groups.

Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, D-Manhattan, ruled out increasing the state's 4 percent sales tax.

"I would not consider it," he said of increasing sales taxes, calling it a "regressive tax."

State officials attribute New York's budget woes largely to declining tax revenues.

The state is receiving less in personal income taxes due to job losses, less in sales tax due to declining consumption and fewer business taxes, officials said.

Another factor is a loss of $370 million in revenue after a deal faltered to install video-lottery terminals at Aqueduct Racetrack.

Cara Matthews and Jay Gallagher of the Albany Bureau contributed to this report.

Dos Equis

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Union workers create wealth


How do you define wealth?  (My definition is based on net worth, not income.) 

BM OUT

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How do you define wealth?  (My definition is based on net worth, not income.) 

Unions destroy jobs.

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I'm not crying.  Do you think you can stop insulting me with shit like that and discuss this like an adult?

This thread, which you started, is about FedEX - a giant corporation.  Somehow you've gotten it into your head that all small businesses will be unionized by the FAA bill.

What the hell are you talking about?

My question is,"whats wrong with the secret ballot".Its one of the few rights we have to change things.We dont need some union thug sitting there trying to intimidate the workers into forcing in a union.I pray that a union rep comes knocking on my door to try to intimidate me.That will be a dead union rep.

Decker

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Paterson announces 8,900 state layoffs
By Joseph Spector • Albany Bureau • March 25, 2009

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ALBANY - Gov. David Paterson announced yesterday plans to lay off 8,900 state workers amid a state budget deficit that has soared by an additional $2.2 billion because of a declining economy.

The decision by Paterson would likely hit every state agency that is under the governor's control, such as transportation workers, prison guards and nurses.


The layoffs represent nearly 5 percent of the state's roughly 200,000 workforce and are another blow to the state where new unemployment claims have reached a staggering 39,000 per week, an increase of more than 20,000 compared to a year ago.

In a memo to agency commissioners, Director of State Operations Dennis Whalen wrote that concessions from labor unions could not be reached, so layoffs will be needed.

Paterson had proposed that workers forego a planned 3 percent pay increase in April and a week's pay next year, as well as some pension and health-insurance cuts.

"Unfortunately, the labor organizations representing state employees have rejected all of the savings options put forward by the Paterson administration," Whalen wrote in a memo to agency heads. "As a result, the state is left with no other option to achieve needed savings other than implementing a workforce reduction plan."
It's unclear what agencies would be affected most, but it will take several months to carry out the layoffs, officials said.

Also, it's unknown how many jobs can be eliminated through attrition, but most are expected to be layoffs, aides said. Each agency will have to submit a list of potential cuts.

State budget officials said the layoffs would save the state about $480 million over two years.

Agencies that are not under the governor's direct control - such as state colleges and universities as well as the attorney general's office, comptroller and public authorities - would not be affected. Of the 200,000 state jobs, 141,000 are under the governor's control.

Public-employee unions railed against the move. Unions have been battling Paterson over proposed health-care and education cuts in his 2009-10 budget proposal.

"We've been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but if Gov. Paterson really believes putting nearly 9,000 New Yorkers out of work is a good idea, he really is out of touch with life on Main Street," said CSEA President Danny Donohue.

Ken Brynien, president of the Public Employees Federation, said unions offered ways to cut the state's deficit, such as reducing the state's use of consultants and overtime costs.

"There is absolutely no need to do layoffs. It will not save the money that the governor thinks it will," he said. "PEF's position is clear and unchanged. We will not agree to any changes in our contract that reduce compensation."

Paterson's announcement came just hours after state officials announced the budget deficit grew by another $2.2 billion, bringing the funding gap to an unprecedented $16.2 billion.

Paterson and legislative leaders said the state's weak economy is lowering revenue projections for the 2009-10 fiscal year, which starts April 1.

The loss of additional revenue complicates leaders' efforts to pass a state budget by the April 1 deadline.

"I will take whatever actions are necessary to get our fiscal house in order and eliminate this deficit," Paterson said in a statement.

Paterson, whose popularity is at record lows in recent polls, did not take questions from the media after his only public event yesterday at the Capitol.

E.J. McMahon, director of the Manhattan Institute's Empire Center for New York State Policy, said the layoffs are an appropriate step but should have been started earlier in the year. He said layoffs would need to be conducted by seniority, so the newest workers would be the first to lose their jobs.

"If he was going to seriously threaten this, the machinery should have been in motion by the beginning of the year," McMahon said. "Now it just sort of comes out of the blue."

Legislative leaders and Paterson met behind closed doors again yesterday for budget talks.

The growing deficit and the layoffs add to the likelihood that lawmakers and Paterson may decide to increase income taxes on the wealthy, a move sought by the unions and education groups.

Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, D-Manhattan, ruled out increasing the state's 4 percent sales tax.

"I would not consider it," he said of increasing sales taxes, calling it a "regressive tax."

State officials attribute New York's budget woes largely to declining tax revenues.

The state is receiving less in personal income taxes due to job losses, less in sales tax due to declining consumption and fewer business taxes, officials said.

Another factor is a loss of $370 million in revenue after a deal faltered to install video-lottery terminals at Aqueduct Racetrack.

Cara Matthews and Jay Gallagher of the Albany Bureau contributed to this report.

The existing contracts were bargained for.  What incentive did the governor provide for a renegotiation?  Did the governor forgo his pay raise, pension and healthcare?

What are the counter-offers? 

If the situation is as you portray it - that budget cuts must be made, that the best or only place to make these cuts is to union health plans, union retirement plans, and union wages, then you might have something.

Decker

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How do you define wealth?  (My definition is based on net worth, not income.) 
Labor manufactures prodcuts.  Labor performs services.  That's the basis for value/wealth.  Everything else is management.

They do the work that creates the things we buy.  They suck our sewers, deliver our mail, purify our water, fix our roads...etc.

Decker

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My question is,"whats wrong with the secret ballot".Its one of the few rights we have to change things.We dont need some union thug sitting there trying to intimidate the workers into forcing in a union.I pray that a union rep comes knocking on my door to try to intimidate me.That will be a dead union rep.
Since management generally holds the cards in bargaining, they can be rather effective in deterring unionization.  Secret ballots permit that kind of intimidation to happen.  For the most part, the executive class does not want to concede one thin dime to labor.  Unions force the executives's hand to share the wealth that labor is producing.

Do you generally solve most of life's problems with murder?