Suicide attack kills 48 at Pakistani mosque

[Deicide]

People forget we were in negotiations with the Taliban up until the last minute for oil.

Well, according to HH6, Sadam was developing WMDs as well...

The Taliban...what a joke for a reason, as if we ever cared what they did in the first place, friends one day, enemies the next...that's US foreign policy.

[drkaje]

Well, according HH6, Sadam was developing WMDs as well...

The Taliban...what a joke for a reason, as if we ever cared what they did in the first place, friends one day, enemies the next...that's US foreign policy.

That's the problem. All of this shit stems from failed/wrong US/British foreign policy from the 'Domino theory' to  displacing the Palestinians to create a Jewish state. We (CIA) literally trained Abu Ismael and put Saddam in power. Mistake, after mistake, after mistake made by people who based based their decisions upon fear, greed and superstition.

We're fucked forever in the middle east.

[Deicide]

That's the problem. All of this shit stems from failed/wrong US/British foreign policy from the 'Domino theory' to  displacing the Palestinians to create a Jewish state. We (CIA) literally trained Abu Ismael and put Saddam in power. Mistake, after mistake, after mistake made by people who based based their decisions upon fear, greed and superstition.

We're fucked forever in the middle east.

BLOWBACK.

[George Whorewell]

Again Decide demonstrates his willfull blindness or unintentional stupidity. Saddam did develop chemical weapons. Saddam did use them on the Kurds. Saddam was developing more chemical and biological weapons. That is a fact. As far as WMD's such as nukes etc., if he wasn't developing them, why did he give the UN inspectors the run around for years and refuse to comply with the treaties he himself signed? You don't think that his behavior was a tad bit suspicious? I suppose maybe he was just trying to pretend he had WMD's so America would invade his country and overthrow his regime. That's a logical conclusion to make.

Take your head out of your ass. There's a lot more going on than what Noam Chomsky, Michael Moore and Keith Olberman tell you.

[Deicide]

Again Decide demonstrates his willfull blindness or unintentional stupidity. Saddam did develop chemical weapons. Saddam did use them on the Kurds. Saddam was developing more chemical and biological weapons. That is a fact. As far as WMD's such as nukes etc., if he wasn't developing them, why did he give the UN inspectors the run around for years and refuse to comply with the treaties he himself signed? You don't think that his behavior was a tad bit suspicious? I suppose maybe he was just trying to pretend he had WMD's so America would invade his country and overthrow his regime. That's a logical conclusion to make.

Take your head out of your ass. There's a lot more going on than what Noam Chomsky, Michael Moore and Keith Olberman tell you.

The only one I read and listen to is Chomsky and I don't agree with everything he says.

So according to you, we invaded Iraq because of WMDs?

[drkaje]

Again Decide demonstrates his willfull blindness or unintentional stupidity. Saddam did develop chemical weapons. Saddam did use them on the Kurds. Saddam was developing more chemical and biological weapons. That is a fact. As far as WMD's such as nukes etc., if he wasn't developing them, why did he give the UN inspectors the run around for years and refuse to comply with the treaties he himself signed? You don't think that his behavior was a tad bit suspicious? I suppose maybe he was just trying to pretend he had WMD's so America would invade his country and overthrow his regime. That's a logical conclusion to make.

Take your head out of your ass. There's a lot more going on than what Noam Chomsky, Michael Moore and Keith Olberman tell you.

Saddam used them on the Kurds. Funny... we gave him WMD, incited Kurds to revolt, he kills them and then we leverage the threat of WMDs for years of isolation, inspection, two wars and an occupation. It's almost as if we had a long term plan to occupy Iraq since the 1950s.

Anyone with a basic understanding of their politics/culture would agree that repeated inspections threatened Saddam's authority/ability to govern. Sadly, he was the only one that understood the level of brutality necessary to keep all the religious sects in line. We (culturally) don't have the stomach to do what imposing order on fundamentalist muslims would take.

[powerpack]

Saddam used them on the Kurds. Funny... we gave him WMD, incited Kurds to revolt, he kills them and then we leverage the threat of WMDs for years of isolation, inspection, two wars and an occupation. It's almost as if we had a long term plan to occupy Iraq since the 1950s.

Anyone with a basic understanding of their politics/culture would agree that repeated inspections threatened Saddam's authority/ability to govern. Sadly, he was the only one that understood the level of brutality necessary to keep all the religious sects in line. We (culturally) don't have the stomach to do what imposing order on fundamentalist muslims would take.

Very true

[Deicide]

Saddam used them on the Kurds. Funny... we gave him WMD, incited Kurds to revolt, he kills them and then we leverage the threat of WMDs for years of isolation, inspection, two wars and an occupation. It's almost as if we had a long term plan to occupy Iraq since the 1950s.

Anyone with a basic understanding of their politics/culture would agree that repeated inspections threatened Saddam's authority/ability to govern. Sadly, he was the only one that understood the level of brutality necessary to keep all the religious sects in line. We (culturally) don't have the stomach to do what imposing order on fundamentalist muslims would take.

H.R.4655
Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Enrolled Bill (Sent to President))

 

Bill Summary & Status for the 105th Congress


H.R.4655
Public Law: 105-338 (10/31/98)
SPONSOR: Rep Gilman (introduced 09/29/98)

RELATED BILLS: S.2525

TITLE(S):


SHORT TITLE(S) AS INTRODUCED:
Iraq Liberation Act of 1998
SHORT TITLE(S) AS PASSED HOUSE:
Iraq Liberation Act of 1998

SHORT TITLE(S) AS ENACTED:
Iraq Liberation Act of 1998

OFFICIAL TITLE AS INTRODUCED:
A bill to establish a program to support a transition to democracy in Iraq.
STATUS: Floor Actions
10/31/98 Public Law 105-338 (11/12/98 CR D1205)
10/20/98 Measure presented to President (10/21/98 CR H11704)
10/20/98 Enrolled Measure signed in Senate (CR S12718)
10/19/98 Enrolled Measure signed in House (CR H11546)
10/07/98 Measure passed Senate (CR S11812)
10/07/98 Measure considered in Senate (CR S11811-11812)
10/07/98 Measure called up by unanimous consent in Senate (CR S11811)
10/05/98 Measure passed House, amended, roll call #482 (360-38) (CR H9494)
10/05/98 Measure considered in House (CR H9486-9494)
10/05/98 Measure called up under motion to suspend rules and pass in House (CR H9486)

STATUS: Detailed Legislative Status

House Actions
Sep 29, 98:
Referred to the House Committee on International Relations.
Oct 2, 98:
Committee Consideration and Mark-up Session Held.
Oct 2, 98:
Committee Agreed to Seek Consideration Under Suspension of the Rules, (Amended) by Voice Vote.
Oct 5, 98:
Called up by House under suspension of the rules.
Considered by House as unfinished business.
Passed House (Amended) by Yea-Nay Vote: 360 - 38 (Roll No. 482).
Senate Actions
Oct 6, 98:
Received in the Senate, read twice.
Oct 7, 98:
Passed Senate without amendment by Unanimous Consent.
Oct 8, 98:
Message on Senate action sent to the House.
Executive Actions
Oct 7, 98:
Cleared for White House.
Oct 20, 98:
Presented to President.
Oct 31, 98:
Became Public Law No: 105-338.
Signed by President.
STATUS: Congressional Record Page References



10/01/98 Introductory remarks on Measure (CR E1857)
10/05/98 Full text of Measure as passed House printed (CR H9486-9487)

COMMITTEE(S):


COMMITTEE(S) OF REFERRAL:
House International Relations
AMENDMENT(S):
***NONE***

COSPONSORS(1):

Rep Cox - 09/29/98


SUMMARY:

(REVISED AS OF 10/05/98 -- Passed House, amended)

Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 - Declares that it should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and to replace it with a democratic government.

Authorizes the President, after notifying specified congressional committees, to provide to the Iraqi democratic opposition organizations: (1) grant assistance for radio and television broadcasting to Iraq; (2) Department of Defense (DOD) defense articles and services and military education and training (IMET); and (3) humanitarian assistance, with emphasis on addressing the needs of individuals who have fled from areas under the control of the Hussein regime. Prohibits assistance to any group or organization that is engaged in military cooperation with the Hussein regime. Authorizes appropriations.

Directs the President to designate: (1) one or more Iraqi democratic opposition organizations that meet specified criteria as eligible to receive assistance under this Act; and (2) additional such organizations which satisfy the President's criteria.

Urges the President to call upon the United Nations to establish an international criminal tribunal for the purpose of indicting, prosecuting, and imprisoning Saddam Hussein and other Iraqi officials who are responsible for crimes against humanity, genocide, and other criminal violations of international law.

Expresses the sense of the Congress that once the Saddam Hussein regime is removed from power in Iraq, the United States should support Iraq's transition to democracy by providing humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people and democracy transition assistance to Iraqi parties and movements with democratic goals, including convening Iraq's foreign creditors to develop a multilateral response to the foreign debt incurred by the Hussein regime.

 

[headhuntersix]

Saddam used them on the Kurds. Funny... we gave him WMD, incited Kurds to revolt, he kills them and then we leverage the threat of WMDs for years of isolation, inspection, two wars and an occupation. It's almost as if we had a long term plan to occupy Iraq since the 1950s.

Anyone with a basic understanding of their politics/culture would agree that repeated inspections threatened Saddam's authority/ability to govern. Sadly, he was the only one that understood the level of brutality necessary to keep all the religious sects in line. We (culturally) don't have the stomach to do what imposing order on fundamentalist muslims would take.

I'd have no problem doing whats neccesary..its the libs like decide that would cry.

[drkaje]

I'd have no problem doing whats neccesary..its the libs like decide that would cry.

We don't have the balls to do what keeping them in line would take. Even if we did, our understanding of their culture is too flawed for the proper execution.

It's not simply a matter of killing people, especially since they have no fear of death.

For example: dispossessing, shaming and killing a suicide bomber's entire family wouldn't even be enough to discourage them. Even if it were, could you (personally with a 45ACP) execute someone's children to set an example? Could you bulldoze their house and throw every villager in the wood chipper for hiding suspect?

[Deicide]

I'd have no problem doing whats neccesary..its the libs like decide that would cry.

I am not a 'Lib'.

[Deicide]

We don't have the balls to do what keeping them in line would take. Even if we did, our understanding of their culture is too flawed for the proper execution.

It's not simply a matter of killing people, especially since they have no fear of death.

For example: dispossessing, shaming and killing a suicide bomber's entire family wouldn't even be enough to discourage them. Even if it were, could you (personally with a 45ACP) execute someone's children to set an example? Could you bulldoze their house and throw every villager in the wood chipper for hiding suspect?

As usual, HH6 ignores all the evidence presented towards him regarding blowback and history and just screams and calls people names such as 'lib', which I am not, but nevermind that.

[George Whorewell]

What difference does it make WHY we invaded. The bottom line is that we INVADED. To now act like Saddam Hussein was Mr. Rogers is absurd. I don't think we should have gone there, but since we did, I am not going to act like we toppled a peaceful, friendly government that treated its people well and was an ally to the US. The man was a vicious tyrant who massacred hundreds of thousands of his own people, invaded his neighbors and potentially possessed WMDs. Second guessing now is an exercise in futility. He's dead, his sons are dead, we won the "war" against Iraq and the insurgency and by 2011 it won't be our problem anymore. Hopefully the US gets something out of it.

As far as Saddam understanding the brutality that was necessary to keep everyone in line, are you joking? The man televised beheadings and maimings of dissidents, murdered his best friends for absolutely no reason, allowed his sons to rape and torture people with no consequences, had mass graves sprawled out across the country and watched his own people starve to death while he furnished his palace and allowed his army to steal food sent by the UN. The only thing he understood was what all fundamentalist Muslim nut-job tyrants understand- violence and propaganda. Whatever your opinion on the invasion, you cannot seriously consider the world is not a better place without this animal. 

Also- if it was our plan to occupy Iraq since the fifties, why did we cut and run in 1992 instead of staying and toppling his government then? In 92' we had the populations support, his neighbors support including probably Iran and his Army was very weak.

[Benny B]

Saddam used them on the Kurds. Funny... we gave him WMD, incited Kurds to revolt, he kills them and then we leverage the threat of WMDs for years of isolation, inspection, two wars and an occupation. It's almost as if we had a long term plan to occupy Iraq since the 1950s.

Anyone with a basic understanding of their politics/culture would agree that repeated inspections threatened Saddam's authority/ability to govern. Sadly, he was the only one that understood the level of brutality necessary to keep all the religious sects in line. We (culturally) don't have the stomach to do what imposing order on fundamentalist muslims would take.

You and your boyfriend "Deicide" need to pipe down already. Iraq was a dumb war and a massive mistake. No matter how many of his own citizens he killed, Saddam was no threat to the U.S. and therefore invasion was not worth one single American soldier's life. Only the neocon buttboys and getbig's village idiots refuse to concede that point.

As far as Afghanistan, if you cannot see the purpose of our presence in that country "drkaje", I would like to see you and your getbig boyfriend personally flown to Waziristan, made personal guests of Mullah Omar, beheaded on video tape, and have that shit put up on youtube so all of us here can put up comments laughing at your heads rolling across the desert.


And this jackass "Deicide" claims to be from NYC. Fucking clown. 

[headhuntersix]

As usual, HH6 ignores all the evidence presented towards him regarding blowback and history and just screams and calls people names such as 'lib', which I am not, but nevermind that.

Hey Decide if everybody worried about blowback we'd get nothing done. Go hid under a rock. Dude I know first hand all about this crap because I was there, u taught english and whined that the Koreans didn't like u. U hate the US and won't live here. What am I supposed to think.

Why all of a sudden does Benny not like the Taliban. Maybe its because he's from New York and has a better and perhaps first hand experience with our shitbag muslim friends. Its all about perspective there Decide. And god knows Benny and I agree on almost nothing.

[ToxicAvenger]

once again

It will take a long time for that region to change.  They have deeply rooted, backwards, strict religiously based ways, laws and customs.
Thats why diplomacy is probably the best way to approach it using military only if an attack is imminent.  We can send soldiers there and spend billions but only a cultural change will reduce the violence.

correct....below..on CNN

[drkaje]

Invading Iraq was dumb but we still hve to live with the implications. It's painfully obvious the US was paving the way for creating a buffer zone between Iran, pakistan and Israel so the palestinians could be displaced. The plan had to have started in the 50s.

Saddam wasn't Mr Rogers but he kept them in line. We'll never keep them in line is my point. What the US needs are 20 more Saddams running countries over there. Crazy as he was the guy was not a zealot and definitely understood what level of brutality is needed to keep fundamentalists in line. He also knew how to deal with the tribal mentality people over there have. We, on the other hand, drop bombs one day and then food/money on the next.

[headhuntersix]

Sa long as that Saddam is our guy. If he never had gotten outa line we wouldn't be talking about him. Afganistan is a mess, its not a mess of our doing, its been like that for years. We've done alot to help those people but the bigger picture is that if we can keep a lid on the nutbags, things will change.Iit will take much more time and money then Obama is willing to spend.

[ToxicAvenger]

Sa long as that Saddam is our guy. If he never had gotten outa line we wouldn't be talking about him.

lmao....N Korea "has gotton outta line" plenty of times...

but you dont quite go attacking folks that actually HAVE  WMDs


we attack by air....only folks that dont quite have an airforce!  bravery n honour at its finest!

[headhuntersix]

Nkorea can cause alot of problems and will use those weapons..plus China and Russia are neighbors. Using NKorea as an example doesn't apply. The current estimate is 64 days start to finish...no more NK.

[Nordic Superman]

That's the problem. All of this shit stems from failed/wrong US/British foreign policy from the 'Domino theory' to  displacing the Palestinians to create a Jewish state. We (CIA) literally trained Abu Ismael and put Saddam in power. Mistake, after mistake, after mistake made by people who based based their decisions upon fear, greed and superstition.

We're fucked forever in the middle east.

No, you're history is lacking if you think this is exclusively the fault of the Brits & US.

Dig just a little deeper outside of the confines of your bias to blaming Western foreign policy and you will find it is advantageous for the other Arab states to keep Palestine in a perpetual state of war with Israel. The issue could be resolved much quicker if fellow Arab states wanted it to, not forgetting the paltry donations they give to Palestine compared to Western nations.

You guys have been deceived somewhat thanks to an Arab mentality you don't believe and don't want to accept exists.

[Benny B]

No, you're history is lacking if you think this is exclusively the fault of the Brits & US.

Dig just a little deeper outside of the confines of your bias to blaming Western foreign policy and you will find it is advantageous for the other Arab states to keep Palestine in a perpetual state of war with Israel. The issue could be resolved much quicker if fellow Arab states wanted it to, not forgetting the paltry donations they give to Palestine compared to Western nations.

You guys have been deceived somewhat thanks to an Arab mentality you don't believe and don't want to accept exists.

Explain your rationale for why it is advantageous for Arab states to have Palestine in a perpetual state of oppression and conflict.  I am not buying into this theory...but my mind is on so many other subjects these days that perhaps you are expressing a fact I have forgotten or overlooked.

From my vantage point, the Arab states can't dictate a solution to the problem if they wanted to (and I believe they do), because the power, and therefore the solution, lie in the hands of the U.S. and Israel.

[Nordic Superman]

Explain your rationale for why it is advantageous for Arab states to have Palestine in a perpetual state of oppression and conflict.  I am not buying into this theory...but my mind is on so many other subjects these days that perhaps you are expressing a fact I have forgotten or overlooked.

From my vantage point, the Arab states can't dictate a solution to the problem if they wanted to (and I believe they do), because the power, and therefore the solution, lie in the hands of the U.S. and Israel.

The solution only lies in the hands of the U.S. and Israel when you apply your fictitious belief that its a creation of foreign policy exclusively.

Keeping Palestine "down" works in favour of Arab culture and a prevalence of religion in everyday life which you cannot begin to understand (unless of course you are an ex-pat of an Arab country?). Arab/Jew relations have been stressed over the last 1500 years, yet your answer is simply foreign policy which neglects the long standing historical issues, most based on culture and religious reasoning.

Wealthy Arab nations have been using the state of Palestine as a litigation tool almost since the conception of Israel as a state as mandated by British authorities. They want Palestinians to constantly struggle as a strategic measure to use against Israel.

Arab nations undertook measures to make it impossible for Palestinian refuges to integrate into their states from the 1948 Arab war against Israel. Even Palestinian descendants born from Palestinian refugees are not able to gain a passport. Marriage also doesn't entitle you to a passport; you could never have set foot in Palestine and you are deemed Palestinian.

Read this: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25212480-17062,00.html

The UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, whose main political support comes from Arab countries, encourages high birthrates by rewarding families with many children.

This isn't a theory, it's a fact - tangible EVIDENCE shows this to be the case. Sure... foreign policy at times hasn't helped but don't be myopic.

[drkaje]

No, you're history is lacking if you think this is exclusively the fault of the Brits & US.

Dig just a little deeper outside of the confines of your bias to blaming Western foreign policy and you will find it is advantageous for the other Arab states to keep Palestine in a perpetual state of war with Israel. The issue could be resolved much quicker if fellow Arab states wanted it to, not forgetting the paltry donations they give to Palestine compared to Western nations.

You guys have been deceived somewhat thanks to an Arab mentality you don't believe and don't want to accept exists.

NS,

Hate to tell you this but most Arabs hate Palestinians. When they were displaced all of the surrounding areas went to shit due to refugees and Hamas. Beruit was considered Paris in the Middle East before Palestinians ruined it. Also, the fighting to get back their land lowered the standard of living along all borders. People in the surrounding areas basically get to choose between sending money and having refugees show up.

Most of this is due to a failed policies based upon religious nonsense.

[garebear]

once again


correct....below..on CNN

Protein Farts, thanks for posting that vid. I think I learned more in those few minutes than I have in the last three months.