Gay adoption?

[OzmO]

Any studies been done on gay parents and the frequency at which their children end up being gay?

Cause all i see is tainted opinions here.

[garebear]

Any studies been done on gay parents and the frequency at which their children end up being gay?

Cause all i see is tainted opinions here.

Ozmo Kramer, the assman

[tonymctones]

Any studies been done on gay parents and the frequency at which their children end up being gay?

Cause all i see is tainted opinions here.

the majority of studies show that gay parents dont produce a abnormally different % of gays then seen by traditional parents. That being said like i stated i wouldnt be suprised to see that number change as homosexuality become more accepted.

[tonymctones]

The idea that being homosexual is a 100% genetic trait is ignorant, some ppl may have a genetic predisposition to being gay but that doesnt mean that those ppl dont choose to follow that. I may have a genetic predisposition to being more violent then others does that make it ok for me to be violent? of course not b/c you are taught thats not ok, the more and more ppl are taught being gay is ok the higher the number will go...get it.

[OzmO]

Ozmo Kramer, the assman

isn't it Cosmo?

[OzmO]

the majority of studies show that gay parents dont produce a abnormally different % of gays then seen by traditional parents. That being said like i stated i wouldnt be suprised to see that number change as homosexuality become more accepted.

Homosexuality it pretty well accepted now.  At least it is in California.  At the High Schools students are openly gay.  I think if there's an increase it's because people are more comfortable coming out of the closet.

[garebear]

Homosexuality it pretty well accepted now.  At least it is in California.  At the High Schools students are openly gay.  I think if there's an increase it's because people are more comfortable coming out of the closet.

I know, this sucks. Let's get back to repressing them already.

[tonymctones]

Homosexuality it pretty well accepted now.  At least it is in California.  At the High Schools students are openly gay.  I think if there's an increase it's because people are more comfortable coming out of the closet.

Homosexuality is not well accepted now it is tolerated now theres a big difference, if it was accepted gays would be marrying and adopting everywhere now. Thats fine thats your opinion and i have mine fact of the matter is though that being gay isnt 100% genetic and anything that pushes someone to be gay in my mind is wrong. I feel as though being raised by gay parents in a society that is openly approving of gays will lead to a rise in % of children reared by gays to be gay so of course im not for it.

[tonymctones]

Homosexuality it pretty well accepted now.  At least it is in California.  At the High Schools students are openly gay.  I think if there's an increase it's because people are more comfortable coming out of the closet.

perhaps i should have said approving instead of accepting

[loco]

Actually I somewhat agree with you.  There are many gays who are born that way....yep, my Christian brothers and sisters, I said that!  For those who are born gay, it is as natural for them to be with the same sex as it is for me (a man) to be with a woman.  Where I vehemently disagree with you is that God did not have a hand in them being born that way.  Why would God create something that He has identified as sinful?  You may ask what sin can a person who is yet to be born commit.  As it has been talked about in other threads, there are things that our ancestors can do that will cause generational curses.  Most people will readily accept the fact that something like cancer can be passed from one generation to the next.  In many cases, homosexuality is nothing more than sin being passed on.  To understand this, one must know that sin and sickness are not of God.  If one believes the Bible to be true, he or she must acknowledge homosexuality is sinful.

I say that I somewhat agree with you because there are many folks who do decide on whim to practice homosexuality.  With women, it is almost to the point whereby it is cool to have "experimented."   Before you blast me with how much a bigot, closed-minded or delusional, I say you should rest easy.  The time is coming when homosexuality will be widely accepted.  I think many people would be shock at how many people are in the closet.  However, it still will not change the fact that God has called it sinful.

I have expressed my thoughts on this before:

The Bible does not say that being attracted to somebody of the same gender is a sin.  It only says that having sex with somebody of the same gender is a sin. 

If you applied Christ's teachings on adultery to this, then you could stretch this to saying that according to the Bible, looking at somebody of the same gender with lust is a sin in your heart.

If this is true, then it does not matter whether or not being attracted to somebody of the same gender is genetic.  It is not a sin.  It is a sin only if you look at somebody of the same gender with lust or if you have sex with somebody of the same gender.

You might ask why would God create people with a desire for somebody of the same gender when it is forbidden for them to have sex with somebody of the same gender? 

To that I would say that God created me with a desire to lust after and to have sex with most of the hot women I see, married or single.  But God forbids me to look at them with lust or to have sex with them.  Even though I have this desire to have sex with them, and even though I may have the opportunity to do so, I don't.  I don't because I call myself a Christian and I claim to believe that the Bible is the Word of God and I want to obey it, and because the Holy Spirit gives me both the desire and the power to obey, though I also have the choice to disobey.

You might say that at least I'm allowed by God to marry the woman I choose to and to have sex with her after I marry her, while homosexuals are not allowed by God to marry who they want to marry, another homosexual. 

To that I would say that married heterosexual couples don't have sex anyway...just kidding.  But seriously, most married men I know, and many women too, are not happy with their sex life.  Some of them wish they can divorce so that they can have all the casual sex they want to, but most of them are moral people and only contemplate it, but would never do that. 

So I'd say heterosexual Christians face similar, if not the same struggles and temptations as Christians who may be attracted to people of the same gender.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on homosexuality.  It's not much different than adultery, fornication, etc.

[loco]

Any studies been done on gay parents and the frequency at which their children end up being gay?

Cause all i see is tainted opinions here.

If studies proved that children raised by gay parents end up becoming gay themselves, would that be a reason for you to oppose gay adoptions?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think gay people might be offended by that.  To them, there is nothing wrong with children of gay parents growing up to be gay.  They probably would be proud of that.

[OzmO]

If studies proved that children raised by gay parents end up becoming gay themselves, would that be a reason for you to oppose gay adoptions?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think gay people might be offended by that.  To them, there is nothing wrong with children of gay parents growing up to be gay.  They probably would be proud of that.

according to what someone said earlier the rate is similar to children raised by straight parents.  No link has be provided yet and I'd be interested to see the study.

As for gay parents being proud of their kids growing up to be gay.  I don't think that's the case.  The gay parents I know, all single, just want their kids to grow up and be happy, gay or not.

[fitt@40]

I have expressed my thoughts on this before:
The Bible does not say that being attracted to somebody of the same gender is a sin.  It only says that having sex with somebody of the same gender is a sin.  

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet (Romans 1:24-27).

Having read this, do you really believe it is permissable to be attracted to the same sex?

[loco]

according to what someone said earlier the rate is similar to children raised by straight parents.  No link has be provided yet and I'd be interested to see the study.

As for gay parents being proud of their kids growing up to be gay.  I don't think that's the case.  The gay parents I know, all single, just want their kids to grow up and be happy, gay or not.

What I'm asking you is, does it matter to you whether or not children of gay parents grow up to be gay?  Is that a bad thing to you?

About the gay parents, what I meant is that gay people would see it as unjust to prevent them from adopting children based just on studies showing that those children would grow up to be gay in their care.

[Dos Equis]

If being homosexual, bisexual, transgendered, etc. is genetic, then the child of a homosexual, bisexual, transgendered, etc. couple wouldn't turn out that way unless they were born that way. 

That's if you believe it's genetic and not a lifestyle choice. 

[loco]

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet (Romans 1:24-27).

Having read this, do you really believe it is permissable to be attracted to the same sex?

Good verse!  I see your point.

I could be mistaken about my thoughts which I expressed above concerning the Bible on homosexuality, but even that verse to me is talking about lust for someone of the same gender, or having sex with someone of the same gender.

I still have questions about the difference between being attracted to someone of the same gender and actually lusting after or having sex with someone of the same gender.

Do you believe it is permissible for a Christian man to be attracted to his friend's gorgeous wife?

[fitt@40]

Do you believe it is permissible for a Christian man to be attracted to his friend's gorgeous wife?

It really depends on how you are defining "attracted."  There are beautiful women every where.  A Christian man would be lying if he said that he did not notice them.  The sin comes about when one starts to entertain and escalate those thoughts.  For example, you see an attractive women and you think to yourself, 'that is a beautiful woman.'  There is nothing sinful in that.  However, if you start wondering what she is like in bed, start undressing her, or having sexual thoughts, you are sinning.  Christians are not immune to temptation.  When you do take those thoughts to far, you must quickly rebuke satan and ask for forgiveness of the Lord. 

[loco]

It really depends on how you are defining "attracted."  There are beautiful women every where.  A Christian man would be lying if he said that he did not notice them.  The sin comes about when one starts to entertain and escalate those thoughts.  For example, you see an attractive women and you think to yourself, 'that is a beautiful woman.'  There is nothing sinful in that.  However, if you start wondering what she is like in bed, start undressing her, or having sexual thoughts, you are sinning.  Christians are not immune to temptation.  When you do take those thoughts to far, you must quickly rebuke satan and ask for forgiveness of the Lord. 

Okay, now take that same thought and apply it to people who feel the same for other people of the same gender.  Those people are not sinning as long as they keep their thoughts and actions in check, correct? 

You may still not agree with me, and that's okay.  But I hope that at least you see my point and why I ask these questions.

[OzmO]

What I'm asking you is, does it matter to you whether or not children of gay parents grow up to be gay?  Is that a bad thing to you?

No it doesn't matter to me.  I think if a person is going to be gay they are going to be gay.  We get plenty of gay people from straight parents. 

About the gay parents, what I meant is that gay people would see it as unjust to prevent them from adopting children based just on studies showing that those children would grow up to be gay in their care.

I can imagine they would.


Anyone have links to actual studies?

[fitt@40]

Okay, now take that same thought and apply it to people who feel the same for other people of the same gender.  Those people are not sinning as long as they keep their thoughts and actions in check, correct? 

You may still not agree with me, and that's okay.  But I hope that at least you see my point and why I ask these questions.

I do understand you thought process on this, but you are missing on very important point.  God deals with the heart.  You are proposing that as long as a person keeps his or her thoughts and actons in check, he or she will be all right.  God does not work that way.  The Bible teaches us that even when we give to others or the church, we are to do it cheerfully.  God does not want us to have malice in our hearts about giving (I'll have to find this Scripture later).  God can have absolutely nothing to do with sin.  He even had to turn away from His only Son when Christ became sin for us.   And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
(Matthew 27:46)
  

[OzmO]

perhaps i should have said approving instead of accepting

I don't think you'll see society, at least in the USA, approve of it anytime soon.   It will become like others things where they just tolerate it and look at it as part of a free society.  That's what's going on here, as i see it, in California.  It's pretty open and no one bothers with it. 

The fact that prop 8 got passed shows many don't approve of it, i think.   

[loco]

I do understand you thought process on this, but you are missing on very important point.  God deals with the heart.  You are proposing that as long as a person keeps his or her thoughts and actons in check, he or she will be all right.  God does not work that way.  The Bible teaches us that even when we give to others or the church, we are to do it cheerfully.  God does not want us to have malice in our hearts about giving (I'll have to find this Scripture later).  God can have absolutely nothing to do with sin.  He even had to turn away from His only Son when Christ became sin for us.   And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
(Matthew 27:46)  

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

You believe that if heterosexual people keep their thoughts and actions in check toward the opposite sex, they are not committing sexual immorality, even though they are naturally attracted to the opposite sex.

You also believe that even if people who are attracted to the same gender keep their thoughts and actions in check toward the same sex, they still commit the sin of homosexuality only because they are attracted to the same gender.  

I can see why you believe this!  To you and to many Christians I'm sure, that is what Romans 1:24-27 says.  

However, to me Romans 1:24-27 does not say that, though I could be wrong.  I'm just being honest, and I am not in any way shape or form trying to justify homosexuality from a Biblical point of view.  To me, Romans 1:24-27 is talking about lusting after or having sex with a person of the same gender.

[fitt@40]

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

You believe that if heterosexual people keep their thoughts and actions in check toward the opposite sex, they are not committing sexual immorality, even though they are naturally attracted to the opposite sex.

You also believe that even if people who are attracted to the same gender keep their thoughts and actions in check toward the same sex, they still commit the sin of homosexuality only because they are attracted to the same gender.  

I can see why you believe this!  To you and to many Christians I'm sure, that is what Romans 1:24-27 says.  

However, to me Romans 1:24-27 does not say that, though I could be wrong.  I'm just being honest, and I am not in any way shape or form trying to justify homosexuality from a Biblical point of view.  To me, Romans 1:24-27 is talking about lusting after or having sex with a person of the same gender.

Yes, I do believe that if the actions and thoughts are kept in obedience to God's word, then a person does not commit sin.  This is not the same as someone saying, "Man, look at that fine butt on that woman.  Lord, please forgive me."  Such a person's heart is not on God.

Yes, I believe that anything that is homosexual in nature, whether it is thought, actions or thoughts not acted out.

for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another...   This is pretty straight forward.

My apologies, but I must continue this conversation tomorrow.  It is after 10:00 P.M. my time, and I have to get up very early in the morning.  God Bless you.

[tonymctones]

I don't think you'll see society, at least in the USA, approve of it anytime soon.   It will become like others things where they just tolerate it and look at it as part of a free society.  That's what's going on here, as i see it, in California.  It's pretty open and no one bothers with it. 

The fact that prop 8 got passed shows many don't approve of it, i think.   

no doubt, i was talking about years from now not necissarily anytime soon maybe 10 or 15 yrs down the road. I dont have studies oz but have studied it in some of my psych classes, again ppl are made up of nature and nurture meaning that being gay isnt a 100% genetic trait there is some degree of choice in it probably more in some then in others but still there is a choice. When society as a whole begins to feel homosexualtiy is normal, or that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality more ppl will make that choice. Same thing with violence, if it was ok for you to bitch slap stupid ppl without repurcussions, wouldnt you from time to time? You dont simply b/c its not socially acceptable if it was there would be alot more bitch slapping going around and its the same thing for being gay.

[OzmO]

no doubt, i was talking about years from now not necissarily anytime soon maybe 10 or 15 yrs down the road. I dont have studies oz but have studied it in some of my psych classes, again ppl are made up of nature and nurture meaning that being gay isnt a 100% genetic trait there is some degree of choice in it probably more in some then in others but still there is a choice. When society as a whole begins to feel homosexualtiy is normal, or that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality more ppl will make that choice. Same thing with violence, if it was ok for you to bitch slap stupid ppl without repurcussions, wouldnt you from time to time? You dont simply b/c its not socially acceptable if it was there would be alot more bitch slapping going around and its the same thing for being gay.

I think they make that choice because the desire is in them. As you say, a "disposition" exists.  For me there's no desire, so no choice will ever be made.  But for those with the "disposition" they can choose to live miserably or live happily.  I say everyone is entitled to be happy and what 2 consenting adults do with their time is there choice so long as no one gets bitch slapped.   

I personally, am not worried that otherwise straight people would end up gay because they had gay parents. (that's my opinion based on personal experience not actual studies)  If you are gay you are gay.  I remember the well the strong desire i had for girls at a very early age.  Nothing would have dissuaded me, even the threat of ever lasting damnation from God didn't stop me.