Who would lift more raw?

[burn2live]

A spin-off thread inspired by QO's recent thread.

Who would lift more raw? A raw lifter or an equipped lifter?

I say raw

[2ND COMING]

are we talking bench? I'd have to go with a guy wearing a shirt.

[Stubborn]

Gotta agree with 2nd on that one. Bench guys really get that technique down and can reduce the ROM by 2/3 easy.

A raw squatter would definitely hit more raw.

On the DL its kind of a draw. The suit only keeps you tight for the most part. I think the DL suit gives you confidence and ab support more than anything. No reason that with a little extra work you couldnt hit the same raw and suited.

[Hedgehog]

The raw lifter 8 days a week.
You get good at what you train.

[MisterMagoo]

The raw lifter 8 days a week.
You get good at what you train.

donnie thompson got shitcanned at the NERBs with his 870 squat, otherwise he might have won the whole shibang. plus you can't pretend ryan kennelly isn't a crazy good raw bencher.

it's hard to say who would win most of the time. i mean, if we're talking about two guys at similar ranks in their respective fields, sure the raw guy will probably win because, hey, he's got more practice. but that's not to say the equipped guy isn't going to be able to give him a run for his money.

[Vet]

It cracks me up this RAW vs Geared bullshit.   Why the fuck do we have to debate and fight about everything?    Respect the guys for what they do in their respective divisions instead of arguing about it.   


Strong is strong. Its that simple. 

Look at the guys from North Georgia Barbell as a prime example.  There are several lifters there who compete both RAW and in multiply gear.   They do well because they are just strong.   

Give a great RAW lifter time to learn the gear and they will put up numbers comparable to their geared counterparts.  Give a great geared lifter time to reaccomidate to the groove of raw lifting and they will move comparable weights.  Why?  More than gear vs no gear its because they are good lifters.  They can assess their weaknesses, set a goal, and train for that goal.   

[MisterMagoo]

strong is strong, but crazy-ply geared lifting is bullshit. it makes powerlifting look bad.

now this isn't a knock on the LIFTERS, but rather the state of the game.

[Vet]

strong is strong, but crazy-ply geared lifting is bullshit. it makes powerlifting look bad.

now this isn't a knock on the LIFTERS, but rather the state of the game.

Point about the lifters taken.  Hoever, I disagree with you about the state of the game.   

If the rules in every federation said every lifter HAD to use multiply gear and they could ONLY use multiply gear, then that would be a reflection of a sad state of the game.   Instead, the current rules--across multiple federations mind you, say that the lifters have a choice to lift with the type of powerlifting gear they choose to lift with---be it multiply, singly ply or RAW.   I actually think thats a GREAT thing.   Lifters arent locked into one lifting modality.  They want to gear up, they can.  They want to go RAW, they can.   

[MisterMagoo]

you said in another thread about how average people have no idea what a suit is, so think about this: when the first human being squats 1,000 pounds raw, "average people" won't give a shit because people have been squatting over 1,000 pounds for years now.

the multi-ply gear hoses other lifters by diminishing their accomplishments. someone asks what "the all-time squat record" is and i can't give them three answers. the records and the spectacle are the multi-ply. you take someone who doesn't know what shirts are and they watch kennelly bench 1100 pounds, then take him to a USAPL meet and he'll wonder why everyone's flipping out at a guy benching 805.

it artificially inflates the records and in the eyes of the ignorant masses smashes the impressiveness of the non-geared lifters.

[thewickedtruth]

raw.. equipped lifters' body's are "trained" to handle and support weight differently due to teh effects of training in gear..


totally raw.. all things being equal, the raw lifter.

[Vet]

you said in another thread about how average people have no idea what a suit is, so think about this: when the first human being squats 1,000 pounds raw, "average people" won't give a shit because people have been squatting over 1,000 pounds for years now.

the multi-ply gear hoses other lifters by diminishing their accomplishments. someone asks what "the all-time squat record" is and i can't give them three answers. the records and the spectacle are the multi-ply. you take someone who doesn't know what shirts are and they watch kennelly bench 1100 pounds, then take him to a USAPL meet and he'll wonder why everyone's flipping out at a guy benching 805.

it artificially inflates the records and in the eyes of the ignorant masses smashes the impressiveness of the non-geared lifters.

It seems to me that you are really caught up on the "impressiveness of the lift"   and are getting hung up on minutia.   I tell people I've squatted over 800 lbs in a meet and am ranked in the top 15 or so on Powerlifiting watch IN MY DIVISION and they nod their head and accept it.  They don't ask why I'm not lifting raw or why Im not lifting in multiply.  They don't care.   They take that little bit of information and to them it translates into I'm strong.  That all the average person cares about.   

The little things you are getting hung up on have nothing to do with what some schmuck off the street thinks or their inability to comprehend 1000 lb squats.  Let me tell you a little secret, the average gym goer who thinks benching 225 and squatting 315 is STRONG cannot comprehend a 585 lb squat, much less a 1000 lb squat and the gear that is worn doesn't matter to them.  Their brains translate it to one thing----strong.    You are looking for reasons to not accept the fact that there are multiply lifters out there.   Get over it.  Multiply lifting is here to stay.  The same as single ply and the same as RAW lifting.  Lifters have the choice.  Thats a good thing. 

[MisterMagoo]

i'll respond to this in the other thread. this is about who'd win in a lifting competition and i think it could be either. again, look at thompson/kennelly.

[burn2live]

It cracks me up this RAW vs Geared bullshit.   Why the fuck do we have to debate and fight about everything?    Respect the guys for what they do in their respective divisions instead of arguing about it.   


Strong is strong. Its that simple. 

Look at the guys from North Georgia Barbell as a prime example.  There are several lifters there who compete both RAW and in multiply gear.   They do well because they are just strong.   

Give a great RAW lifter time to learn the gear and they will put up numbers comparable to their geared counterparts.  Give a great geared lifter time to reaccomidate to the groove of raw lifting and they will move comparable weights.  Why?  More than gear vs no gear its because they are good lifters.  They can assess their weaknesses, set a goal, and train for that goal.   

I wouldn't say it's bullshit. I'm asking because recently a dude said to me that an equipped lifter could go straight into a raw competition and outlift the raw lifter

From my experience many equipped lifters rarely lift raw in training also. Some do lift raw alongside their equipment, but imo most train in gear virtually all the time and so aren't that hot raw

[Vet]

I wouldn't say it's bullshit. I'm asking because recently a dude said to me that an equipped lifter could go straight into a raw competition and outlift the raw lifter

From my experience many equipped lifters rarely lift raw in training also. Some do lift raw alongside their equipment, but imo most train in gear virtually all the time and so aren't that hot raw

I think that varies highly from lifter to lifter. 

I'm a singly ply lifter---I don't use multiply---and I'd say 85-90% of my training is raw.  The only thing I consistantly wear is a pair of old, loose briefs to protect my hips with wide stance squatting on DE days.  I may put on my shirt 6 or 8 times between two meets and one of those times is to take my openers.     

[burn2live]

I think that varies highly from lifter to lifter. 

I'm a singly ply lifter---I don't use multiply---and I'd say 85-90% of my training is raw.  The only thing I consistantly wear is a pair of old, loose briefs to protect my hips with wide stance squatting on DE days.  I may put on my shirt 6 or 8 times between two meets and one of those times is to take my openers.     

You train a lot smarter than most of the equipped lifters I know. Most of the equipped lifters I know are younger and probably lacking experience. One dude I know warms up on the squat to 100kg (220lb) then goes to 120kg with the suit on and trains suited from that weight up. I don't understand it