Milos when are you back on an IFBB stage competing?

[pellius]

Get over it old socialist... Draper was and still is fucking alcoholic who had a nervous beakdown.. the strongest survive and are successful. The weak complain and self pitty.

QFT!

A seller, whether goods or services (labor), will try to get as much money as they can. A buyer will always want to pay as little as they can. If either party can get a better deal they will go else where. Weider didn't put a gun to anybody's head. Ross, Draper, etc. weren't forced to do anything or accept anything. It's called a free market. And it's nobody else business other than the buyer and seller to agree on the price. My guess is that they did bodybuilding because they loved it and would have done it whether or not they were getting paid (as the vast majority still do). If they honesty thought they could make a good living, and a comfortable retirement, being just a bodybuilder then it's ignorance and delusion on their part. Arnold knew better.

Why isn't it exploitation of the buyer when and actor or an athlete gets a multimillion dollar contract? Did Arnold exploit anyone or cheat anyone when he got that insane dealer for his last Terminator movie? (It can be looked up on the net).

Many years ago someone asked Johnny Carson (after renewing his contract) why he thought he deserve millions of dollars. He just replied, "Because I could get it."    

[The Master]

QFT!

A seller, whether goods or services (labor), will try to get as much money as they can. A buyer will always want to pay as little as they can. If either party can get a better deal they will go else where. Weider didn't put a gun to anybody's head. Ross, Draper, etc. weren't forced to do anything or accept anything. It's called a free market. And it's nobody else business other than the buyer and seller to agree on the price. My guess is that they did bodybuilding because they loved it and would have done it whether or not they were getting paid (as the vast majority still do). If they honesty thought they could make a good living, and a comfortable retirement, being just a bodybuilder then it's ignorance and delusion on their part. Arnold knew better.

Why isn't it exploitation of the buyer when and actor or an athlete gets a multimillion dollar contract? Did Arnold exploit anyone or cheat anyone when he got that insane dealer for his last Terminator movie? (It can be looked up on the net).

Many years ago someone asked Johnny Carson (after renewing his contract) why he thought he deserve millions of dollars. He just replied, "Because I could get it."    

A very good post!

It comes to no surprise as Vince Basile is an old divorced guy without much success to show for. The bitter always loves to complain.

[Vince B]

From what I have read it appears that Joe didn't pay Draper and other lads what he promised to pay them. So Dave took Joe to court. Somehow Joe got Dave to settle before going to court but we heard that Dave probably would have won the case and lost an opportunity to recover a lot of money. So it isn't what Pellius and others think. Yes, Joe is a good businessman but the muscle guys got royally screwed along the way.

[gib]

QFT!

A seller, whether goods or services (labor), will try to get as much money as they can. A buyer will always want to pay as little as they can. If either party can get a better deal they will go else where. Weider didn't put a gun to anybody's head. Ross, Draper, etc. weren't forced to do anything or accept anything. It's called a free market. And it's nobody else business other than the buyer and seller to agree on the price. My guess is that they did bodybuilding because they loved it and would have done it whether or not they were getting paid (as the vast majority still do). If they honesty thought they could make a good living, and a comfortable retirement, being just a bodybuilder then it's ignorance and delusion on their part. Arnold knew better.

Why isn't it exploitation of the buyer when and actor or an athlete gets a multimillion dollar contract? Did Arnold exploit anyone or cheat anyone when he got that insane dealer for his last Terminator movie? (It can be looked up on the net).

Many years ago someone asked Johnny Carson (after renewing his contract) why he thought he deserve millions of dollars. He just replied, "Because I could get it."    

Ecactly right!

[Albert Schmidt]

Didn't Priest and Milos both say the were going to sue the IFBB ?Why didn't they??

[pellius]

In the good old days, which by the way weren't so good, most guys were delighted just to win a trophy and title and be featured in a magazine or two. That was all anyone needed. Looking back it isn't good enough because Joe sold the idea that if you got to be a he-man you got rewarded with the gal and money.

There was no prize money to speak of for winning the Mr Universe in those days. Even the so-called Professional Mr Universe. If you owned a gym you were classed a professional. Ditto if you posed for money and held seminars. That is still a better definition of professional that the nonsense the IFBB has come up with. Kiss butt and you might get your pro card.

Joe and Ben didn't give much back to the champs. Clarence Ross, Steve Reeves, George Eifferman, Larry Scott, Dave Draper, Leroy Colbert and many others weren't properly paid for their contributions to his magazines.

I've competed in a sport for over a decade and never got paid a penny. In fact, I have to pay to compete. During that time I've had more injuries than I can remember, had five surgeries, broken bones, dislocated joints (my shoulder once came completely out of it's socket and flopped about like a flipper), I've lost count how many times I've been on crutches..., in my prime I spent all my free time training, I put my heart and soul into this sport and though I've won some tournaments I've never come close to winning a major one (Pan Ams, Mundials). Was I exploited because I wasn't paid? Maybe you may think so but whose decision should it be? I did it because I love the sport. If I could have made money on it it would have been a dream come true. But nobody owes me my dreams, nobody owes me a living.

[The Master]

Vince Basile is like average guy in class that wants to be the best. The kid works on a subject for several hours every week of the semester and ends up with a B while the smartest people in the class only works the last week and gets an A. Then the hard working loser spends the next few weeks crying about how unfair it is.

[pellius]

From what I have read it appears that Joe didn't pay Draper and other lads what he promised to pay them. So Dave took Joe to court. Somehow Joe got Dave to settle before going to court but we heard that Dave probably would have won the case and lost an opportunity to recover a lot of money. So it isn't what Pellius and others think. Yes, Joe is a good businessman but the muscle guys got royally screwed along the way.

OK, now if someone doesn't live up to their end of the bargain that is a separate issue. But if there was a contract why didn't they sue? Wasn't it common knowledge that Weider was a shark and that he was always looking after his best interest just as you should be looking after yours?

[Albert Schmidt]

Are you saying Arnold got an A??

[The Master]

Are you saying Arnold got an A??

Arnold got an A in negotiations and in outsmarting every one of his contemporaries.

[Vince B]

Arnold and Joe go a long way back. Arnold and I arrived in LA in the same week in October 1968. I lasted a month and went back to Canada broke. Arnold is governor of California. Who would have predicted that? Only Arnold!

Joe W brought Arnold to California and gave him a job shifting boxes in the warehouse. Arnold was at the gym or on the beach the same as everyone else. He simply refused to work in the warehouse. So he survived and the rest is history. I guess both used each other. Arnold did make money from bodybuilding and invested it like Joe Gold told him: into real estate. I heard Joe Gold had to shift his World Gym because Arnold owned the property. Not sure about this one but it wouldn't surprise me. Arnold learned from everyone and I bet Joe Weider taught him to promise everything but give the very least you have to.

[pellius]

Vince Basile is like average guy in class that wants to be the best. The kid works on a subject for several hours every week of the semester and ends up with a B while the smartest people in the class only works the last week and gets an A. Then the hard working loser spends the next few weeks crying about how unfair it is.

It is unfair. But that's life. I believe that Vince has a real talent for designing and constructing exercise machines. I've seen some of his stuff on IronAge and wish I could train at his gym. It's far superior to a lot of the stuff that clutters the major fitness chains (there are exceptions like Hammer and some of the Nautilus stuff). But he was never able to get it out to the mass market. Why would major producers want to bother with it when they got their own in house designers and machines and most people don't know the difference or have a clue? It's not enough to have a good idea and a good product. If he could have only found some investors who were concerned with not just making a buck but putting out a good product. A. Jones pretty much financed himself. I don't think he could have done it any other way. Then other companies jumped on the "exercise machine" band wagon and even stole or made inferior imitations based on his long and arduous years of designing and redesigning. A whole new industry took off in no small part to Jones.

Sorry Vince.
  

[The Master]

Arnold and Joe go a long way back. Arnold and I arrived in LA in the same week in October 1968. I lasted a month and went back to Canada broke. Arnold is governor of California. Who would have predicted that? Only Arnold!

Joe W brought Arnold to California and gave him a job shifting boxes in the warehouse. Arnold was at the gym or on the beach the same as everyone else. He simply refused to work in the warehouse. So he survived and the rest is history. I guess both used each other. Arnold did make money from bodybuilding and invested it like Joe Gold told him: into real estate. I heard Joe Gold had to shift his World Gym because Arnold owned the property. Not sure about this one but it wouldn't surprise me. Arnold learned from everyone and I bet Joe Weider taught him to promise everything but give the very least you have to.

Arnold is just fucking awesome. While you ended up as a loser (pedophile, fucker of fat pigs), he ended up as a winner. He = just better than you.

[Chick]

Arnold and Joe go a long way back. Arnold and I arrived in LA in the same week in October 1968. I lasted a month and went back to Canada broke. Arnold is governor of California. Who would have predicted that? Only Arnold!

Joe W brought Arnold to California and gave him a job shifting boxes in the warehouse. Arnold was at the gym or on the beach the same as everyone else. He simply refused to work in the warehouse. So he survived and the rest is history. I guess both used each other. Arnold did make money from bodybuilding and invested it like Joe Gold told him: into real estate. I heard Joe Gold had to shift his World Gym because Arnold owned the property. Not sure about this one but it wouldn't surprise me. Arnold learned from everyone and I bet Joe Weider taught him to promise everything but give the very least you have to.

Maybe Arnold discovered your secret of taking "2 Dbol for a couple of months" before you did?

[The Master]

It is unfair. But that's life. I believe that Vince has a real talent for designing and constructing exercise machines. I've seen some of his stuff on IronAge and wish I could train at his gym. It's far superior to a lot of the stuff that clutters the major fitness chains (there are exceptions like Hammer and some of the Nautilus stuff). But he was never able to get it out to the mass market. Why would major producers want to bother with it when they got their own in house designers and machines and most people don't know the difference or have a clue? It's not enough to have a good idea and a good product. If he could have only found some investors who were concerned with not just making a buck but putting out a good product. A. Jones pretty much financed himself. I don't think he could have done it any other way. Then other companies jumped on the "exercise machine" band wagon and even stole or made inferior imitations based on his long and arduous years of designing and redesigning. A whole new industry took off in no small part to Jones.

Sorry Vince.
  

Life isnt fair, and everybody over 10 knows that.

Vince made his choices and now he has to live with the consequences of those choices. Who knows, if he had spent more time learning from Ahhnuld, he might have ended up in a better spot

[Vince B]

I got news for you Debussey, no one wins in life but it is easy to feel like a loser. Never envy anyone else because they might have a toothache.

Why you are given a voice on any public forum is beyond me. If I owned this site you would never post your filth here.

[pellius]

Arnold and Joe go a long way back. Arnold and I arrived in LA in the same week in October 1968. I lasted a month and went back to Canada broke. Arnold is governor of California. Who would have predicted that? Only Arnold!

Joe W brought Arnold to California and gave him a job shifting boxes in the warehouse. Arnold was at the gym or on the beach the same as everyone else. He simply refused to work in the warehouse. So he survived and the rest is history. I guess both used each other. Arnold did make money from bodybuilding and invested it like Joe Gold told him: into real estate. I heard Joe Gold had to shift his World Gym because Arnold owned the property. Not sure about this one but it wouldn't surprise me. Arnold learned from everyone and I bet Joe Weider taught him to promise everything but give the very least you have to.

Arnold made money being a bodybuilder. I don't think bodybuilding per se paid much. I mean, Joe didn't pay him much and he didn't make much winning shows. It seems he made money marketing himself and investing and not being lazy like so many bodybuilders are even today. I remember as a kid reading Franco's first book" "Coming on Strong" and I was surprised when Franco made the comment of bodybuilders being lazy while he and Arnold were always looking for better opportunities. I believe only Arnold and Franco in their time were making a living as bodybuilders in the sense that they didn't have to work a regular job like Katz and Zane being teachers.

[pellius]

Life isnt fair, and everybody over 10 knows that.

Vince made his choices and now he has to live with the consequences of those choices. Who knows, if he had spent more time learning from Ahhnuld, he might have ended up in a better spot

For a crazy, derange, nut you sure can make a lot of sense.

[pellius]

I got news for you Debussey, no one wins in life but it is easy to feel like a loser. Never envy anyone else because they might have a toothache.

Why you are given a voice on any public forum is beyond me. If I owned this site you would never post your filth here.

What do you mean by "no one wins in life"? You don't consider Arnold a winner?

[bigdumbbell]

It is unfair. But that's life. I believe that Vince has a real talent for designing and constructing exercise machines. I've seen some of his stuff on IronAge and wish I could train at his gym. It's far superior to a lot of the stuff that clutters the major fitness chains (there are exceptions like Hammer and some of the Nautilus stuff). But he was never able to get it out to the mass market. Why would major producers want to bother with it when they got their own in house designers and machines and most people don't know the difference or have a clue? It's not enough to have a good idea and a good product. If he could have only found some investors who were concerned with not just making a buck but putting out a good product. A. Jones pretty much financed himself. I don't think he could have done it any other way. Then other companies jumped on the "exercise machine" band wagon and even stole or made inferior imitations based on his long and arduous years of designing and redesigning. A whole new industry took off in no small part to Jones.

Sorry Vince.
  

very fair assessment

[Vince B]

What do you mean by "no one wins in life"? You don't consider Arnold a winner?

I mean exactly that. You can feel like a winner some of the time but eventually you get old and deteriorate like everyone else. Plus you lose friends and loved ones, etc.

[The Master]

I got news for you Debussey, no one wins in life but it is easy to feel like a loser. Never envy anyone else because they might have a toothache.

Why you are given a voice on any public forum is beyond me. If I owned this site you would never post your filth here.

You are not correct about your "winning" statement. What constitutes "winning" in life in the first place is a matter of how we define it, and since you don't have the power to make an all-reaching definition of diffuse matters like this, you are not in a position to make such a statement.

In this life we really don't know much. As Debussey has stated before, finding the answers to the "big questions" in life = practically impossible (can you really prove much besides the fact that you are aware right now?), at least today. What we do "know" is that you have your life, and that the quality of it is determined by the emotional states you experience. If going by this, what constitutes "winning" in life should mean being as happy as you can, and if you feel like a loser you are certainly not on the winning side. Doing what it takes to live a happy life will at least maximize some part of it you can feel pretty sure about (again, this is just Debussey's "life maxim". Very hedonistic, eh? ).
If you on top of this accepts the brutal facts about life (you will get old, you will die, your loved ones will die and so on), then you can still "win" because you maximized your happiness within the frame of something resembling reality.

They have done studies on people who's been on their death bed, and it seems like there are two groups: A minority that achieved what they set out to achieve (family, education, business, friends, loads of great experiences ect and so on, a bit like "maximizing" ) and they usually accepts death and are ok with it. The majority dies a bitter death though, feeling that they came out short (this group will include a loser like you) Addition: The "happy minority" are supposedly less fearful about their transition into death too (but Debussey has to check up on this though, don't take this for granted yet).

Arnold understood that how you feel and what you achieve is up to you (there will of course be unforseen external factors that can help or screw you over, but these should be accepted nevertheless. Getting the best output from yourself, despite what's going on elsewhere is still up to you), and even though many people thinks of him as an arse he still made them feel like losers

The purpose of life is to live it, to taste experience to the utmost, to reach out eagerly and without fear for newer and richer experience.
Eleanor Roosevelt

And just for you Vince, you loser:

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt


Addition: The post is not meant to contain "universal answers", this is just what Debussey chooses to live its life by, nothing more, and Debussey has to accept the consequences of living its life based on this way of thinking.

[Luv2Hurt]

You are not correct about your "winning" statement. What constitutes "winning" in life in the first place is a matter of how we define it, and since you don't have the power to make an all-reaching definition of diffuse matters like this, you are not in a position to make such a statement.

In this life we really don't know much. As Debussey has stated before, finding the answers to the "big questions" in life = practically impossible (can you really prove much besides the fact that you are aware right now?), at least today. What we do "know" is that you have your life, and that the quality of it is determined by the emotional states you experience. If going by this, what constitutes "winning" in life should mean being as happy as you can, and if you feel like a loser you are certainly not on the winning side. Doing what it takes to live a happy life will at least maximize some part of it you can feel pretty sure about (again, this is just Debussey's "life maxim". Very hedonistic, eh? ).
If you on top of this accepts the brutal facts about life (you will get old, you will die, your loved ones will die and so on), then you can still "win" because you maximized your happiness within the frame of something resembling reality.

They have done studies on people who's been on their death bed, and it seems like there are two groups: A minority that achieved what they set out to achieve (family, education, business, friends, loads of great experiences ect and so on, a bit like "maximizing" ) and they usually accepts death and are ok with it. The majority dies a bitter death though, feeling that they came out short (this group will include a loser like you)

Arnold understood that how you feel and what you achieve is up to you, and even though many people thinks of him as an arse he still made them feel like losers

The purpose of life is to live it, to taste experience to the utmost, to reach out eagerly and without fear for newer and richer experience.
Eleanor Roosevelt

And just for you Vince, you loser:

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt

Nice post.  debussey thinks deep.

[The Master]

Nice post.  debussey thinks deep.

Well thank you The post was very incomplete and some points are added, but its too late now do do more about it. The general ideas comes out though.

[bigdumbbell]

Nice post.  debussey thinks deep.

x2