Author Topic: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster  (Read 3889 times)

The True Adonis

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2009, 12:29:04 PM »
Adonis, I was saying no doc I know or speak to personally.  I'm sure there are docs that do favor some kind of public system or single payor system, as you point out, but the majority of docs are very very concerned with a nationally run system.  Big hospitals have already taken a lot of power away from physicians, many see this as another layer of bureacracy in medicine.
Most doctors support national health insurance, new study shows

Reflecting a shift in thinking over the past five years among U.S. physicians, a new study shows a solid majority of doctors - 59 percent - now supports national health insurance.

Such plans typically involve a single, federally administered social insurance fund that that guarantees health care coverage for everyone, much like Medicare currently does for seniors. The plans typically eliminate or substantially reduce the role of private insurance companies in the health care financing system, but still allow patients to go the doctors of their choice.

A study published in today's Annals of Internal Medicine, a leading medical journal, reports that a survey conducted last year of 2,193 physicians across the United States showed 59 percent of them "support government legislation to establish national health insurance," while 32 percent oppose it and 9 percent are neutral.

The findings reflect a leap of 10 percentage points in physician support for national health insurance (NHI) since 2002, when a similar survey was conducted. At that time, 49 percent of all physician respondents said they supported NHI and 40 percent opposed it.

Support among doctors for NHI has increased across almost all medical specialties, said Dr. Ronald T. Ackermann, associate director of the Center for Health Policy and Professionalism Research at Indiana University 's School of Medicine and co-author of the study.

"Across the board, more physicians feel that our fragmented and for-profit insurance system is obstructing good patient care, and a majority now support national insurance as the remedy," he said.

Support for NHI is particularly strong among psychiatrists (83 percent), pediatric sub-specialists (71 percent), emergency medicine physicians (69 percent), general pediatricians (65 percent), general internists (64 percent) and family physicians (60 percent). Fifty-five percent of general surgeons support NHI, roughly doubling their level of support since 2002.

Doctors have often expressed concern about lack of patient access to care due to rising costs and patients' insufficient levels of insurance. An estimated 47 million Americans currently lack health insurance coverage and another 50 million are believed to be underinsured. At the same time, health care costs in the United States are rising at the rate of about 7 percent a year, twice the rate of inflation.

The health care issue continues to rank high among voter concerns in the 2008 elections, placing third in a recent poll after the economy and Iraq .

The current study by the Indiana University researchers is the largest survey ever conducted among doctors on the issue of health care financing reform. It is based on a random sampling of names obtained from the American Medical Association's master list of physicians throughout the country.

In addition to measuring attitudes toward NHI, the survey also asked doctors about their views about "more incremental reform," often interpreted as state- or federal-based programs requiring or "mandating" that consumers buy health insurance from private insurance companies, legislative measures providing tax incentives to businesses to provide coverage for their employees, or similar steps.

Fewer physicians (55%) were in support of "incremental" reform.  Moreover, virtually all those opposed to national health insurance also opposed incremental reform to improve access to care.  In fact, only 14% of physicians overall oppose national health insurance but support more incremental reforms.  Ironically, many medical organizations and most politicians have endorsed only incremental changes.


Dr. Aaron E. Carroll, Director of Indiana University's Center for Health Policy and Professionalism Research and lead author of the study, commented: "Many claim to speak for physicians and reflect their views. We asked doctors directly and found that, contrary to conventional wisdom, most doctors support the government creating national health insurance."

Other signs indicate that attitudes among doctors are changing.  The nation's largest medical specialty group, the 124,000-member American College of Physicians, endorsed a single-payer national health insurance program for the first time in December.


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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2009, 12:35:29 PM »
Adonis, I was saying no doc I know or speak to personally.  I'm sure there are docs that do favor some kind of public system or single payor system, as you point out, but the majority of docs are very very concerned with a nationally run system.  Big hospitals have already taken a lot of power away from physicians, many see this as another layer of bureacracy in medicine.


I have been thinking about this for a while. I am conflicted though. Do I want to make a lot of money? Yes. Morals come in to play but is my quest for a lot of money hurting the less fortunate that i could help by going into peds or becoming a PCP or Internal? Truthfully...Yes. Simply because under the Proposed Healthcare Plan, Plastics would be elective still, thus not changing a thing, thats where the problem comes in. Do I want to go into plastics only to make a lot of money or do i want to help people by going into GP. I really havent been this conflicted about anything this complex in my life. Mixing thoughts about my future with my wants pertaining money but as well as the overall healthcare for U.S. citizens and the morals, man...a lot if very different factors come into play. Thanks for reading my shit. Been on my mind for a while.

The True Adonis

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2009, 12:40:48 PM »

I have been thinking about this for a while. I am conflicted though. Do I want to make a lot of money? Yes. Morals come in to play but is my quest for a lot of money hurting the less fortunate that i could help by going into peds or becoming a PCP or Internal? Truthfully...Yes. Simply because under the Proposed Healthcare Plan, Plastics would be elective still, thus not changing a thing, thats where the problem comes in. Do I want to go into plastics only to make a lot of money or do i want to help people by going into GP. I really havent been this conflicted about anything this complex in my life. Mixing thoughts about my future with my wants pertaining money but as well as the overall healthcare for U.S. citizens and the morals, man...a lot if very different factors come into play. Thanks for reading my shit. Been on my mind for a while.
Healthcare and Profit should never cross paths.

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2009, 12:43:41 PM »

I have been thinking about this for a while. I am conflicted though. Do I want to make a lot of money? Yes. Morals come in to play but is my quest for a lot of money hurting the less fortunate that i could help by going into peds or becoming a PCP or Internal? Truthfully...Yes. Simply because under the Proposed Healthcare Plan, Plastics would be elective still, thus not changing a thing, thats where the problem comes in. Do I want to go into plastics only to make a lot of money or do i want to help people by going into GP. I really havent been this conflicted about anything this complex in my life. Mixing thoughts about my future with my wants pertaining money but as well as the overall healthcare for U.S. citizens and the morals, man...a lot if very different factors come into play. Thanks for reading my shit. Been on my mind for a while.

Mal - dont let some scumbag socialistic slobs tell you that you are not entitled to make a great living.

Between the loss of income for 8 years not working compared to your peers, the school loans on top of that, and then the tons of hours you have to work as a resident, YOU HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO BEFRE YOU WILL EVEN CATCH UP!

A doctor should make a great living and not be told that he is immoral unless he is willing to be a civil servant working for a regular wage.

Screw that, screw Obama and his gang of socialists blaming doctors' salaries for the costs of medicine.   

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2009, 12:45:33 PM »
Healthcare and Profit should never cross paths.

TA - you really are a dreamer in the worst sense. 

Why then should a person incur 250k of school debt to go to medical school????

Why would a doctor ever open a new practice on his own?

Why would a medical tech company ever develope new machines or testing devices?

Why would a company ever come out with innovate new tech???

 

The True Adonis

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2009, 12:53:27 PM »
TA - you really are a dreamer in the worst sense. 

Why then should a person incur 250k of school debt to go to medical school????

Why would a doctor ever open a new practice on his own?

Why would a medical tech company ever develope new machines or testing devices?

Why would a company ever come out with innovate new tech???

 

America has a failed health system.  By far the worst out of all 1st world, Industrialized countries.  The facts and evidenced cannot be subverted. 

 The World Health Organization (WHO), ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, , 37th in overall performance behind Morocco, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study.


A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared countries,

According to the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences, the United States is the "only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage"

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2009, 12:53:32 PM »
As I said in a previous post, I would be very cautious with a survey from a professional organization like the AMA.  The AMA does not represent all physicians, most physicians I know do not belong to the AMA because its another extra annual fee.  Many AMA physicians are hospital based or politically motivated in some way.

I would need to see a large survey from a sample of random physicians.  The survey you quoted came from AMA member list.  I speak mostly to private physicians, I can only say that the vast majority of private physicians that I know are for reform but opposed to a national system ran by the government.  Good find though...its still interesting.

The True Adonis

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2009, 12:55:54 PM »
As I said in a previous post, I would be very cautious with a survey from a professional organization like the AMA.  The AMA does not represent all physicians, most physicians I know do not belong to the AMA because its another extra annual fee.  Many AMA physicians are hospital based or politically motivated in some way.

I would need to see a large survey from a sample of random physicians.  The survey you quoted came from AMA member list.  I speak mostly to private physicians, I can only say that the vast majority of private physicians that I know are for reform but opposed to a national system ran by the government.  Good find though...its still interesting.

The AMA are THE MOST Conservative and still support Single Payer by 59 percent.

Lets not forget that Obama is not offering single payer, but a hybrid system where you can keep whatever you have if you like it.  I think that is bullshit.  Single Payer is the way to go.

I used to work for United Health.  I know how rotten the whole thing is.

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2009, 12:57:34 PM »
Why should a doctor not be entield to make a profit in his work when we dont put the same restrictions on lawyers, plumbers, accountants, etc????

Your cut and paste is stupid.  

There is no problem whatsoever with doctors being motiviated by both profit and care in their practices.  


The True Adonis

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2009, 01:01:37 PM »
Why should a doctor not be entield to make a profit in his work when we dont put the same restrictions on lawyers, plumbers, accountants, etc????

Your cut and paste is stupid.  

There is no problem whatsoever with doctors being motiviated by both profit and care in their practices.  



Doctors in Britain do VERY well.  Some live in million dollar houses.  They have a merit based system, (unlike here) with their National Health Service. Here take a look:


Kazan

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2009, 01:03:49 PM »
America has a failed health system.  By far the worst out of all 1st world, Industrialized countries.  The facts and evidenced cannot be subverted. 

 The World Health Organization (WHO), ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, , 37th in overall performance behind Morocco, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study.


A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared countries,

According to the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences, the United States is the "only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage"

At what point did it become the US governments job to provide health care? It's not their job, never has been and never should be. Yes our health care system is so bad that I can call the clinic on Sunday because my daughter has an ear infection, see the doctor within 45 minutes and pick up the antibiotics and ear drops in 2 hours and it cost me all of $10. Man that system is fucked up ::).
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Kazan

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2009, 01:06:09 PM »
Doctors in Britain do VERY well.  Some live in million dollar houses.  They have a merit based system, (unlike here) with their National Health Service. Here take a look:



Oh no you didn't just post Michael Moore bullshit! His propaganda would make Leni Riefenstahl proud.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2009, 01:06:09 PM »
At what point did it become the US governments job to provide health care? It's not their job, never has been and never should be. Yes our health care system is so bad that I can call the clinic on Sunday because my daughter has an ear infection, see the doctor within 45 minutes and pick up the antibiotics and ear drops in 2 hours and it cost me all of $10. Man that system is fucked up ::).

TA wants this country to be a socialist paradise where no one makes more than anyone else, doctors make the same as garbage men, lawyers the same as mailroom people, etc. 


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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2009, 01:11:44 PM »
In TAs Defense...that video is accurate, i know because my RA in undergrad is GP in the UK and he still makes quite a bit and lives very well...But to tell you the truth i want to be stinking freaking rich. Like Rich enough to buy a Ranch and a Vineyard...some wild shit like thay...Lambo rich...


And im like "am i wrong for that and using medicine  as a vehicle?" to tell you the truth...yea i think its pretty bad, its like profit from pain? I dont know...whatever

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2009, 01:17:25 PM »
In TAs Defense...that video is accurate, i know because my RA in undergrad is GP in the UK and he still makes quite a bit and lives very well...But to tell you the truth i want to be stinking freaking rich. Like Rich enough to buy a Ranch and a Vineyard...some wild shit like thay...Lambo rich...


And im like "am i wrong for that and using medicine  as a vehicle?" to tell you the truth...yea i think its pretty bad, its like profit from pain? I dont know...whatever

No you are not wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you help save lives, bring better health to people, come up with new innovative ways to treat disease, you should be rewarded! 

Isnt that what we hear all the time from people who complain abour AROD's salary????

Mal - just think of the lost income and debt compounded that you have to pay over the last 8 years and for the years going forwad with school loans.  Its enormous! 

Just to break even you need to make a lot of $$$$, just to catch up!

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2009, 01:25:38 PM »
TA wants this country to be a socialist paradise where no one makes more than anyone else, doctors make the same as garbage men, lawyers the same as mailroom people, etc. 


No.

The True Adonis

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2009, 01:26:23 PM »
In TAs Defense...that video is accurate, i know because my RA in undergrad is GP in the UK and he still makes quite a bit and lives very well...But to tell you the truth i want to be stinking freaking rich. Like Rich enough to buy a Ranch and a Vineyard...some wild shit like thay...Lambo rich...


And im like "am i wrong for that and using medicine  as a vehicle?" to tell you the truth...yea i think its pretty bad, its like profit from pain? I dont know...whatever
You won`t be near that rich being a doctor.

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2009, 01:38:00 PM »
I always wonder about those rankings too.  I think we are lower on the rankings for a couple reasons.  1. The US diet and lifesytle sucks.  2. Our medical system does not focus on preventative medicine enough.  3. High deductibles and co-pays scare away primary care patients (this is what needs to be addressed).
4. We spend a lot of $ on end of life care whereas some other countries help their elderly die peacefully.

I also don't think those rankings pick up on the fact that we address issues quicker than most medical systems.  When it comes to musculoskeletal care, I bet we do better.

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2009, 01:38:45 PM »
You won`t be near that rich being a doctor.


Um....you dont know some of numbers that Plastics are making right now. Southwest, Northeast and South South east, They are cleaning up.

The True Adonis

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2009, 01:42:20 PM »

Um....you dont know some of numbers that Plastics are making right now. Southwest, Northeast and South South east, They are cleaning up.
Far from the norm. 

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2009, 01:50:33 PM »
Far from the norm. 

Like almost anything else, the best rise to the top. 

The True Adonis

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2009, 01:57:40 PM »
Like almost anything else, the best rise to the top. 
Sorry, but this is not true at all.  The horror stories of Hollywood should be enough to realize that the wealthiest and most prolific plastic surgeons are certainly not the best.


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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2009, 01:58:46 PM »
Sorry, but this is not true at all.  The horror stories of Hollywood should be enough to realize that the wealthiest and most prolific plastic surgeons are certainly not the best.



Of course there are isolated cases, but by and large, the best in any porfession rise to the top. 

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2009, 02:06:43 PM »
In medicine, not necessarily 33386.  I never thought about being anything except a GP (besides an attraction to ortho)and my grades and class rankings were very good.  I was top 15% in my med school class and valedictorian of my undergraduate college.  I always envisioned a GP as the prototype doctor. In hindsight, maybe I should have gone into a subspecialty...but I feel I am making a difference more as a GP.  The average salary for a GP is $120,000-$150,000.  It should be more IMO.  There should be less wage gaps between GPs and specialists.

Mal, after you get through two years of on-call at the end of medical school and 3-5 years of residency with call, you may feel better about making more $.  Dude, we spend years in school and years in training giving up so many nights and weekends and give so much free and volunteer care.

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Re: ABC ObamaCare Special Turns Into Presidential Filibuster
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2009, 02:12:15 PM »
In medicine, not necessarily 33386.  I never thought about being anything except a GP (besides an attraction to ortho)and my grades and class rankings were very good.  I was top 15% in my med school class and valedictorian of my undergraduate college.  I always envisioned a GP as the prototype doctor. In hindsight, maybe I should have gone into a subspecialty...but I feel I am making a difference more as a GP.  The average salary for a GP is $120,000-$150,000.  It should be more IMO.  There should be less wage gaps between GPs and specialists.

Mal, after you get through two years of on-call at the end of medical school and 3-5 years of residency with call, you may feel better about making more $.  Dude, we spend years in school and years in training giving up so many nights and weekends and give so much free and volunteer care.

Ok i appreciate that. I got caught up in the Change talk..