Do you agree with this statement regarding HRT

[Boost]

Here is a quote from John Romano relating to the definition of "natural"

"Normal conjugated test level ranges from 400 - 800. I believe that as long as your test levels are within the normal range you are "natural." However it gets there."

Can a guy with weekly test injections really be classed as natural?

Opinions?

[The Showstoppa]

Here is a quote from John Romano relating to the definition of "natural"

"Normal conjugated test level ranges from 400 - 800. I believe that as long as your test levels are within the normal range you are "natural." However it gets there."

Can a guy with weekly test injections really be classed as natural?

Opinions?

Very good topic/question that I've wondered about myself.  I think it should just be your total level being in the "normal" range for you age and gender instead of whether or not someone is taking anything.  Simplifies the testing and also allows people with legit medical reasons to compete without having to go overboard.

[spinnis]

Damn. And I thought he was smart 

[Tatyana]

Not if you are going by the IOC or WADDA regulations.

HRT for men and women is considered doping.

The only hormones that are allowable are insulin for diabetics and thyroxine for hypothyroidism.

[Deicide]

Not if you are going by the IOC or WADDA regulations.

HRT for men and women is considered doping.

The only hormones that are allowable are insulin for diabetics and thyroxine for hypothyroidism.

Jij is overal en verbazend.

[The Showstoppa]

Not if you are going by the IOC or WADDA regulations.

HRT for men and women is considered doping.

The only hormones that are allowable are insulin for diabetics and thyroxine for hypothyroidism.

I think Romano meant that what he was saying is how it should be, not how it currently is.  Maybe I'm wrong.

[Method101]

[Montague]

Not if you are going by the IOC or WADDA regulations.

HRT for men and women is considered doping.

The only hormones that are allowable are insulin for diabetics and thyroxine for hypothyroidism.

I agree with Romano.
If you have a deficiency, then using HRT to simply bring your Test levels to normal should be just as fair as NOT allowing competitors to raise their levels above normal. 

Additionally, if you’re using HRT simply to bring your Test levels to the “normal” range, then how are they going to know that in a test where the only indication of juicing is an elevated (above normal) serum T level.
And if someone is going to "cheat" and use their HRT script/supply to raise their levels above normal, then that will show up on the test, and they'll be caught.

If they allow corrective measures through use of insulin and Thyroxine, then what’s the big deal with Testosterone?

[aliamini]

this is what i wrote in another post couple of weex ago in this regards

Allow me to elaborate … u r held accountable for your violation by your identification which is proved by your passport …

He was never announced positive … but let me tell u a bit about how complicated it is to test positive for test.

Testosterone to Epitestosterone was set at 6:1 by the IOC Medical Commission in 1982 as a final positive test … how ever it changed recently to 4:1.

According to WADA if the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone is greater than 4:1 (as it changed from 6:1 previously) it is considered evidence of possible doping and leads to further tests … key word … “Further Test” Meaning it is not finalized.

WADA's Code advices two different practices to determine if the increased T:E ratio is due to a physiological or pathological condition or to administration of exogenous hormones … However there are documented cases of non-doping athletes with T:E ratios greater than 6:1 … in that case additional testing is required to determine the etiology of the elevated ratio

if an athlete's urine test produces a ratio that is above 4:1 … at least three additional samples must be tested … These may be samples that were previously collected and analyzed or unannounced future tests … If the results is less than 30 percent for males and less than 60 percent for females … then it is likely that the T:E ratio is naturally increased … thus announcing his as a “Negative”

WADA doesn’t consider genetic factors … as in several cases the natural testosterone Is high … as documented and recorded the following races surpassed that 4:1

Hispanics 5.8:1
Caucasian 5.7:1
Africans 5.6:1

However Asians registered 3.8:1 in the tests after steroids were added to their urine samples … i.e. they have more room for tolerance

An epitestosterone urine concentration greater than 200 ng/mL indicates its misuse … so do the math for the test … 800ng/ml of testosterone to start further investigation

[The Showstoppa]

I agree with Romano.
If you have a deficiency, then using HRT to simply bring your Test levels to normal should be just as fair as NOT allowing competitors to raise their levels above normal. 

Additionally, if you’re using HRT simply to bring your Test levels to the “normal” range, then how are they going to know that in a test where the only indication of juicing is an elevated (above normal) serum T level.
And if someone is going to "cheat" and use their HRT script/supply to raise their levels above normal, then that will show up on the test, and they'll be caught.

If they allow corrective measures through use of insulin and Thyroxine, then what’s the big deal with Testosterone?

Totally agree.

[G o a t b o y]

Not if you are going by the IOC or WADDA regulations.

HRT for men and women is considered doping.

Gee, that's fuccking arrogant of them to write such a rule, considering if your testosterone levels are in the "normal" range, there's no way to detect that you're doing anything, since testosterone at normal levels is supposed to be there. 

[G o a t b o y]

Here is a quote from John Romano relating to the definition of "natural"

"Normal conjugated test level ranges from 400 - 800. I believe that as long as your test levels are within the normal range you are "natural." However it gets there."

Can a guy with weekly test injections really be classed as natural?

Opinions?

I agree with this 100%.  Next you're gonna say type-1 diabetics who take insulin (at the "normal" levels most people's bodies produce) aren't "natural".   

[Montague]

Totally agree.

Thanks.
I knew I liked you.


I'll see you back downstairs.
Maybe we'll find Karl.

[The Showstoppa]

Thanks.
I knew I liked you.


I'll see you back downstairs.
Maybe we'll find Karl.

 

[Boost]

I agree with this 100%.  Next you're gonna say type-1 diabetics who take insulin (at the "normal" levels most people's bodies produce) aren't "natural".   

Well I think that legitimate diabetes is differen't from a guy who has juiced for decades and his natural test is so low he has to take injections.

[Boost]

Romano's test levels haven't dropped as a result of normal ageing.

They've dropped because he's been on juice for 3 decades.

I would say HRT is legit in the case of  a real drop in test as a result of ageing, stress etc.

I'm not a fan of ex juicer's jumping on high doses of HRT and claiming it's natural

[G o a t b o y]

Well I think that legitimate diabetes is differen't from a guy who has juiced for decades and his natural test is so low he has to take injections.

So there's no such thing as legitimate hypogonadism?    (and low test can be caused by a number of conditions, not just former juicing)


And even for those whose problem was caused by former gear use, so what?  Type II diabetes is caused by years of a shitty diet and lack of exercise.  That's like saying "His diabetes is his own fault... we should deny him insulin!"

[Van_Bilderass]

Gee, that's fuccking arrogant of them to write such a rule, considering if your testosterone levels are in the "normal" range, there's no way to detect that you're doing anything, since testosterone at normal levels is supposed to be there. 

Are you kidding me? Test to Epitest ratio and isotope testing for exogenous testosterone. Google it.

I do agree that insulin should be put in the same category as testosterone and gh, even if you have diabetes, since it may offer benefits (insulin using diabetics have more lbm). You can live with low test and can't live with no insulin, sure, but if we're talking about even playing field then diabetics shouldn't compete with healthy folks.

[Tatyana]

So there's no such thing as legitimate hypogonadism?    (and low test can be caused by a number of conditions, not just former juicing)


And even for those who's problem was caused by former gear use, so what?  Type II diabetes is caused by years of a shitty diet and lack of exercise.  That's like saying "His diabetes is his own fault... we should deny him insulin!"

There are legitimate cases.

I wonder if they consider these.

I also think it is hypocritical that women can take birth control pills, which aren't really all that  different from HRT for women, yet HRT is not allowed?

Oestrogen is also anabolic in women.

[Van_Bilderass]

There are legitimate cases.

I wonder if they consider these.

I also think it is hypocritical that women can take birth control pills, which aren't really all that  different from HRT for women, yet HRT is not allowed?

Oestrogen is also anabolic in women.

There are exceptions. I'm too tired to dig up the WADA paper on this but male HRT is allowed in some cases, like when you have had a traumatic injury to your testicles.

[G o a t b o y]

Really, unless you're a competitive athlete competing in an organization that has "doping" rules, it's a pointless argument anyway.  Romano is a guy in his 40's...  who gives a shit whether he's "natural" or not?  Most of us here bodybuild for health, strength, or aestetics and don't do the "oiled men in thongs on a stage" thing, so for us it's a non-issue.

[TechnoViking]

Thats why there should be age limits...The problem is 40-50 year olds wanting to compete with young adults...These asshats can't do it with out hormones...Whats wrong with being the best in your age group and leave it at that? In just about every sport, everyone over the age of 35-40 would get smoked...But not in bodybuilding...That shit needs to stop...

[Tapeworm]

There are legitimate cases.

I wonder if they consider these.

I also think it is hypocritical that women can take birth control pills, which aren't really all that  different from HRT for women, yet HRT is not allowed?

Oestrogen is also anabolic in women.

I thought the pill mimiced a state of pregnancy and the progesterone meant a lower estrogen level.  Don't they say long term pill use reduces the risk of breast cancer for that reason?

[240 is Back]

if you inject a needle into your ass every week containing teststerone, you're not natural.

if you have 'low' levels, use the gel or a patch.  if you're putting 800 mg into yourself every week then wearing a 'natural for life!' t-shirt, you're an idiot.

[HTexan]

Lol sport teams should just pick a range and let player's do whatever along as theIr in the range.