Author Topic: White House wants more power to set Medicare rates (Obama is a Dictator)  (Read 1859 times)

grab an umbrella

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And why is it expensive for the providers? Are you saying it should cost what it costs? That's what is ignorant.   You don;t have to be a hospital accountant to see that  ::)

http://www.american.com/archive/2009/may-2009/what-is-driving-rising-healthcare-costs

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa211es.html

Executive Summary

Health care costs have increased dramatically over the last few decades and are now thought to be excessively high. That has caused the current political reevaluation of our health care system, including its funding and performance.

This study is an analysis of the causes of the increase in health care costs. The major culprit in the seemingly endless rise in health care costs is found to be the removal of the patient as a major participant in the financial and medical choices that are currently being made by others in the name of the patient.

The increasing share of medical bills paid by third-party payers (insurance companies and governments) and the disastrous consequences are documented. Patients overuse medical resources since those resources appear to be free or almost free. Producers of medical equipment create new and more expensive devices, even if they are of only marginal benefit, since third-party payers create a guaranteed market. Attempts to rein in those costs have led to a blizzard of paperwork but proven ineffective in controlling costs.

The cure for the present problems is straightforward: the patient must once again be made the central actor in the medical marketplace. Patients need to be given the same motivations to economize on medical care that they have to economize in other markets. Tax laws need to be rewritten. The use of medical savings accounts needs to be promoted. High-deductible health insurance should be encouraged.

Returning the patient, and normal market principles, to center stage is all that is necessary to bring the costs of health care under control.

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

Health Insurance Costs

This document is also available as a printable .pdf file.
Health Insurance Costs

Facts on the Cost of Health Insurance and Health Care

Introduction

By several measures, health care spending continues to rise at a rapid rate and forcing businesses and families to cut back on operations and household expenses respectively.

In 2008, total national health expenditures were expected to rise 6.9 percent -- two times the rate of inflation.1 Total spending was $2.4 TRILLION in 2007, or $7900 per person1. Total health care spending represented 17 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP).

U.S. health care spending is expected to increase at similar levels for the next decade reaching $4.3 TRILLION in 2017, or 20 percent of GDP.1

In 2008, employer health insurance premiums increased by 5.0 percent – two times the rate of inflation. The annual premium for an employer health plan covering a family of four averaged nearly $12,700. The annual premium for single coverage averaged over $4,700.2

Experts agree that our health care system is riddled with inefficiencies, excessive administrative expenses, inflated prices, poor management, and inappropriate care, waste and fraud. These problems significantly increase the cost of medical care and health insurance for employers and workers and affect the security of families.

National Health Care Spending

    * In 2008, health care spending in the United States reached $2.4 trillion, and was projected to reach $3.1 trillion in 2012.1 Health care spending is projected to reach $4.3 trillion by 2016.1
    * Health care spending is 4.3 times the amount spent on national defense.3
    * In 2008, the United States will spend 17 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP) on health care. It is projected that the percentage will reach 20 percent by 2017.1
    * Although nearly 46 million Americans are uninsured, the United States spends more on health care than other industrialized nations, and those countries provide health insurance to all their citizens.3
    * Health care spending accounted for 10.9 percent of the GDP in Switzerland, 10.7 percent in Germany, 9.7 percent in Canada and 9.5 percent in France, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.4


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Look at how pitiful canada's healthcare is.  Our country is HUGE, and every organized government program fails.

Employer and Employee Health Insurance Costs

    * Premiums for employer-based health insurance rose by 5.0 percent in 2008. In 2007, small employers saw their premiums, on average, increase 5.5 percent. Firms with less than 24 workers, experienced an increase of 6.8 percent.2
    * The annual premium that a health insurer charges an employer for a health plan covering a family of four averaged $12,700 in 2008. Workers contributed nearly $3,400, or 12 percent more than they did in 2007.2 The annual premiums for family coverage significantly eclipsed the gross earnings for a full-time, minimum-wage worker ($10,712).
    * Workers are now paying $1,600 more in premiums annually for family coverage than they did in 1999.2
    * Since 1999, employment-based health insurance premiums have increased 120 percent, compared to cumulative inflation of 44 percent and cumulative wage growth of 29 percent during the same period.2
    * Health insurance expenses are the fastest growing cost component for employers. Unless something changes dramatically, health insurance costs will overtake profits by the end of 2008.5

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According to who?  What company?  Data please.  Thats a blanket statment, which this article seems to be full of.
    * According to the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research and Educational Trust, premiums for employer-sponsored health insurance in the United States have been rising four times faster on average than workers’ earnings since 1999.2
    * The average employee contribution to company-provided health insurance has increased more than 120 percent since 2000. Average out-of-pocket costs for deductibles, co-payments for medications, and co-insurance for physician and hospital visits rose 115 percent during the same period.6
    * The percentage of Americans under age 65 whose family-level, out-of-pocket spending for health care, including health insurance, that exceeds $2,000 a year, rose from 37.3 percent in 1996 to 43.1 percent in 2003 – a 16 percent increase.7

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Over 2000 dollars oh brother, because thats so much money.

The Impact of Rising Health Care Costs

    * National surveys show that the primary reason people are uninsured is the high cost of health insurance coverage.2

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Every projection for the governments healthcare plan shows it will cost a lot more than using a private insurer.
    * Economists have found that rising health care costs correlate to drops in health insurance coverage.8
    * A recent study by Harvard University researchers found that the average out-of-pocket medical debt for those who filed for bankruptcy was $12,000. The study noted that 68 percent of those who filed for bankruptcy had health insurance. In addition, the study found that 50 percent of all bankruptcy filings were partly the result of medical expenses.9 Every 30 seconds in the United States someone files for bankruptcy in the aftermath of a serious health problem.

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As has been pointed out many times, people were probably living beyond their means in the first place.  IE, house as expensive as they could afford, and then the medical bills came and they were fucked.

    * A new survey shows that more than 25 percent said that housing problems resulted from medical debt, including the inability to make rent or mortgage payments and the development of bad credit ratings.10

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A survey?  I've never had faith in surveys.

    * About 1.5 million families lose their homes to foreclosure every year due to unaffordable medical costs. 11
    * A survey of Iowa consumers found that in order to cope with rising health insurance costs, 86 percent said they had cut back on how much they could save, and 44 percent said that they have cut back on food and heating expenses.12

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Again, do you need HBO?  Starz?  The brand new lease on the car?  Americans weren't saving anyways, so its mildly laughable the the "survey" says they cut back on saving.


    * Retiring elderly couples will need $250,000 in savings just to pay for the most basic medical coverage.13 Many experts believe that this figure is conservative and that $300,000 may be a more realistic number.

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As opposed to the government telling old people to fuck off because their going to die anyways???


    * According to a recent report, the United States has $480 billion in excess spending each year in comparison to Western European nations that have universal health insurance coverage. The costs are mainly associated with excess administrative costs and poorer quality of care.14

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Of course its bloated, its huge.  Will the government run a bloat free program?  Fuck no, you and I both know this.  The 480 billion sounds high, but remember, we have 300 million people, western europe has hose many?


    * The United States spends six times more per capita on the administration of the health care system than its peer Western European nations.14

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The quality of our healthcare is far superior as well.  Do you want quantity or quality?

 
Time for Action on Reining in Health Care Costs

Policymakers and government officials agree that health care costs must be controlled. But they disagree on the best ways to address rapidly escalating health spending and health insurance premiums. Some favor price controls and imposing strict budgets on health care spending. Others believe free market competition is the best way to solve the problems. Public health advocates believe that if all Americans adopted healthy lifestyles, health care costs would decrease as people required less medical care.


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I found something I agree with.


There appears to be no agreement on a single solution to health care’s high price tag. Many approaches may be used to control costs. What we do know is if the rate of escalation in health care spending and health insurance premiums continues at current trends, the cost of inaction will severely affect employer’s bottom lines and consumer’s pocketbooks.

Notes

   1. Keehan, S. et al. “Health Spending Projections Through 2017, Health Affairs Web Exclusive W146: 21 February 2008.
   2. The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation. Employee Health Benefits: 2008 Annual Survey. September 2008.
   3. California Health Care Foundation. Health Care Costs 101 -- 2005. 02 March 2005.
   4. Pear, R., “U.S. Health Care Spending Reaches All-Time High: 15% of GDP.” The New York Times, 9 January 2004, 3.
   5. McKinsey and Company. The McKinsey Quarterly Chart Focus Newsletter, “Will Health Benefit Costs Eclipse Profits,” September, 2004.
   6. The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation. Employee Health Benefits: 2008 Annual Survey. September 2008.
   7. Agency for Heathcare Research and Quality. Out-of-Pocket Expenditures on Health Care and Insurance Premiums Among the Non-elderly Population, 2003, March 2006.
   8. The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation. The Uninsured: A Primer, Key Facts About Americans without Health Insurance. 2004. 10 November 2004 http://www.kff.org/uninsured/
   9. Himmelstein, D, E. Warren, D. Thorne, and S. Woolhander, “Illness and Injury as Contributors to Bankruptcy, “ Health Affairs Web Exclusive W5-63, 02 February , 2005.
  10. The Access Project. Home Sick: How Medical Debt Undermines Housing Security. Boston, MA, November 2005.
  11. Robertson, C.T., et al. “Get Sick, Get Out: The Medical Causes of Home Mortgage Foreclosures,” Health Matrix, 2008
  12. Selzer and Company Inc. Department of Public Health 2005 Survey of Iowa Consumers, September 2005.
  13. Fidelity Investments, Press Release, 06 March 2006.
  14. McKinsey Global Institute. Accounting for the Cost in the United States. January 2007



You argue the sources all you want.  Bottom line is that the system is overcharged and bloated.  Only an  ostrich  would think otherwise.


Yes I read it.  Sorry if it sounded like I didn't read it, playing call of duty when I typed it.

Soul Crusher

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What I meant by tort reform was that many docs practice what is known as "defensive medicine" in that they order many tests just to avoid claims of malpractice.  This greatly adds to the cost of medicine.  Its like CYA medicine for the fear of a lawsuit. 

OzmO

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Yes I read it.  Sorry if it sounded like I didn't read it, playing call of duty when I typed it.

Yeah,  I'm thinking of playing CoD 4 again.  I'm not suggesting that the current administration's answers will work or are the right ones.  I'm also not suggesting that we should have universal healthcare.  I do have about 3 dozen family relatives living in Canada and have asked them about their health care services.  It's not as bad as its made out to be in some media and they for the most part are satisfied with it.  I'm sure there are bad cases, just like here, where a year ago or so i responded to a post where an insurance company called a hospital a pulled the plug on a patient (fully current with their premium) who was being prepped for surgery.  So there are horror stories both ways.


I'm simply pointing out that our health is ranked low, it's bloated, over priced. 

i don't know where you get the idea that our health care system is top notch. No one else seems to think so.


http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/index.html

The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care

United States
See also: Health care reform in the United States and Health care in the United States
The United States is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not have a universal health care system.[1] The government directly covers 27.8% of the population[17] through health care programs for the elderly, disabled, military service families and veterans, children, and some of the poor, through Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, and TRICARE.[18][19] Federal law ensures public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay.[20] However, this unfunded mandate has contributed to a health care safety net that some analyses say is increasingly strained.[21] Certain types of medical spending and particularly health insurance benefit from significant tax subsidies; in particular, employer-sponsored health insurance is a non-taxable benefit. In all, government spending accounted for 45.1% of total health spending in the U.S. in 2005.[22] Current estimates put U.S. health care spending at more than 15% of GDP, a greater portion than in any other United Nations member state except for the Marshall Islands.[23]



Additionally, you haven't shown anything that's deceptive in that article all you seem to do is regurgitate conservative talk show rhetoric.


OzmO

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What I meant by tort reform was that many docs practice what is known as "defensive medicine" in that they order many tests just to avoid claims of malpractice.  This greatly adds to the cost of medicine.  Its like CYA medicine for the fear of a lawsuit. 

Thanks, I agree then.

My x-wife just became a flabottomist (sp?)  Draws blood.  There are quite a few hoops they have to jump through just to get their certificate. 






 

grab an umbrella

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Hey ozmo do you play on xbox or ps3?

OzmO

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Hey ozmo do you play on xbox or ps3?

I got it on PS3.  My Xbox crashed and i haven't sent it in yet (red rings of death)

JOCKTHEGLIDE

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Thanks for saying it for me.  That's why there is a problem.  The whole system is bunk.  And just so you know and just so you can't fall back on your programming, I pay the money for health insurance and have full cable/internet ($300/month not inclusing what i pay per view).  That's not the issue here, although your programming wants you to make it the issue. 

The issue, it that it's over charged poorly managed health care that's out of control and something needs to be done.
how fast is your internet again,,,

OzmO

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how fast is your internet again,,,

I'm not paying $300 for internet.  I'm paying $300 for internet AND cable (premium channels, 2 HD DVR boxes, 1 reg box etc...)

The internet part cost about $40/mo. 

grab an umbrella

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Well crap ozmo, www.xboxlive.com/support
Or
1800 4myxbox
Send that thing off so I can hurt you in some COD4
;)