Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?

[Skip8282]

Why should the tax payer pay for abortions that are elective?

Angioplasty is an elective surgery too.  Should medicare stop covering that?

And I'm also on board for free breast augementations!   

[Straw Man]

this is your problem straw youre falling for the bull shit agenda obama is pushing

weve already gone over this but you STILL refuse to acknowledge and try and push them as part of the same problem.

THEY ARE 2 SEPERATE PROBLEMS!!!

The real issue is the problem with the health care system we currently have for the ppl who actually pay for  health care not that there are ppl out there without health care even though there are viable options out there for them...
quit spouting obama/msnbc talking points and think for you fuking self.

people without insurance or health care and people with insurance who either can't afford to use it or get denied coverage by their provider are all part of the same larger problem.

abortion is not on my radar screen at all. 

It's a distraction for people to chase so they won't pay attention to the real problem

I wasn't aware you watched MSNBC but I have no clue what talking points you think you're seeing in my posts

[Straw Man]

Angioplasty is an elective surgery too.  Should medicare stop covering that?

And I'm also on board for free breast augementations!   

I'm only in favor if I get to be on the "panel" that decides.

[tonymctones]

Angioplasty is an elective surgery too.  Should medicare stop covering that?

And I'm also on board for free breast augementations!   

technically every surgery could be deemed elective but "elective" in this sense is meant to denote a procedure that is not medically beneficial I would say.

Angioplasty does serve a medical purpose, what purpose does an elective abortion serve?

again whats the difference between paying for abortions and say paying for lipo?

[Straw Man]

technically every surgery could be deemed elective but "elective" in this sense is meant to denote a procedure that is not medically beneficial I would say.

Angioplasty does serve a medical purpose, what purpose does an elective abortion serve?

again whats the difference between paying for abortions and say paying for lipo?

you really want to stay distracted don't you?

[tonymctones]

people without insurance or health care and people with insurance who either can't afford to use it or get denied coverage by their provider are all part of the same larger problem.

I wasn't aware you watched MSNBC but I have no clue what talking points you think you're seeing in my posts

There are options out there straw, yea i know you have to deal with the beurocratic mess that is govt but there are options

what larger problem would that be?

you seem to roll both problems into one without acknowledging that you can address one without addressing the other just like obama does and msnbc as well.

[tonymctones]

you really want to stay distracted don't you?

this is what this thread is about weve gone up one side and down the other with this health care bs

you know the 2 seperate problems can be addressed you guessed it SEPERATLY thats where I stand

Sorry bro I dont feel like helping those who wont help themselves I know its a cooky concept but I like to keep the money I earn. Youve got a big heart I admire that but there are ppl out there that will take advantage of you just as they are now.

[Straw Man]

this is what this thread is about weve gone up one side and down the other with this health care bs

you know the 2 seperate problems can be addressed you guessed it SEPERATLY thats where I stand

Sorry bro I dont feel like helping those who wont help themselves I know its a cooky concept but I like to keep the money I earn. Youve got a big heart I admire that but there are ppl out there that will take advantage of you just as they are now.

scroll back and you'll notice that I've already commented that I don't think Obama is being dishonest about abortion.

Everything else has just been the typical GetBig merry-go-round

[tonymctones]

scroll back and you'll notice that I've already commented that I don't think Obama is being dishonest about abortion.

Everything else has just been the typical GetBig merry-go-round

you also said that abortion was a non issue that was meant to keep "stupid" ppl distracted. That comment had nothing to do with whether or not he was being dishonest.

Some ppl are actually against abortion straw and seeing as it is in the MAJORITY of cases elective the idea that it shouldnt be funded by those who are against it is a legit concern.

do you not find it ironic and funny straw that obama tries to push health care for all by appealing to morals and yet is ok with ppl shirking their responsibility to others and abortion?

[Straw Man]

you also said that abortion was a non issue that was meant to keep "stupid" ppl distracted. That comment had nothing to do with whether or not he was being dishonest.

Some ppl are actually against abortion straw and seeing as it is in the MAJORITY of cases elective the idea that it shouldnt be funded by those who are against it is a legit concern.

do you not find it ironic and funny straw that obama tries to push health care for all by appealing to morals and yet is ok with ppl shirking their responsibility to others and abortion?

Yes, that is what I said and I was referring ( and I assumed you understand) in the CONTEXT of the debate of about health care reform.

In that context, the fake hysteria that somehow your health insurance premium is going to pay for an abortion is a smoke screen to keep people ginned up about an emotional issue (for them) and maybe even to attach some of that emotion to the opposition to health care reform.

[tonymctones]

Yes, that is what I said and I was referring ( and I assumed you understand) in the CONTEXT of the debate of about health care reform.

In that context, the fake hysteria that somehow your health insurance premium is going to pay for an abortion is a smoke screen to keep people ginned up about an emotional issue (for them) and maybe even to attach some of that emotion to the opposition to health care reform.

do you not think that if somebody is against abortion that there is a legitimate concern there?

problem is straw simply b/c you dont see this as a legit issue doesnt mean its not a legit issue for anybody.

[Straw Man]

do you not think that if somebody is against abortion that there is a legitimate concern there?

problem is straw simply b/c you dont see this as a legit issue doesnt mean its not a legit issue for anybody.

sure but if that's your issue then please call your insurance company tomorrow and check and see if they cover abortions

If so, I assume you'll be cancelling your insurance

btw - I thought the issue was about Obama being dishonest and not abortion in general.

for the record, I don't think he's being dishonest and I think the hair splitting on the right is to distract people, gin up emotion and then redirect that emotion to opposing health care reform

[Skip8282]

technically every surgery could be deemed elective but "elective" in this sense is meant to denote a procedure that is not medically beneficial I would say.

Angioplasty does serve a medical purpose, what purpose does an elective abortion serve?

again whats the difference between paying for abortions and say paying for lipo?

I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out Tony.  Where's the line in deciding what should be covered and what shouldn't.  You can easily argue that fat removal is medically beneficial, etc.  Picking and choosing what should be covered vs what shouldn't be covered just seems to me to be an exercise in futility.

[Skip8282]

I'm only in favor if I get to be on the "panel" that decides.

OK, but you've got to evaluate the fat and ugly ones too.

[Straw Man]

OK, but you've got to evaluate the fat and ugly ones too.

why would fat ugly girls need breast implants

[Skip8282]

Some ppl are actually against abortion straw and seeing as it is in the MAJORITY of cases elective the idea that it shouldnt be funded by those who are against it is a legit concern.

So I'll ask you my question to BB.  Should people who believe in faith-based healing be allowed to stop paying for Medicaid and Medicare?

[Skip8282]

why would fat ugly girls need breast implants

To impress the chubby chasers.

[Straw Man]

To impress the chubby chasers.

well since money is tight I think we'd have to set some basic standard and ration the boob jobs only for good looking girls with low self esteem

[tonymctones]

sure but if that's your issue then please call your insurance company tomorrow and check and see if they cover abortions

If so, I assume you'll be cancelling your insurance

btw - I thought the issue was about Obama being dishonest and not abortion in general.

for the record, I don't think he's being dishonest and I think the hair splitting on the right is to distract people, gin up emotion and then redirect that emotion to opposing health care reform

it originally was but again your comment caused this to decend into what it has.

whether private insurance companies do or not isnt the question perhaps we should research everybody in the company and refuse to use them if someone is pro choice b/c we technically pay their salary? 

we are not technically paying for abortions even if the insurance company pays for them we are paying for a service in the terms of insurance for ourselves and only ourselves. Taxes payed by us would go to fund those who dont pay taxes or pay less taxes health care under obama liberal agenda that you seem to be falling for so why should we not get a say in what we are paying for?

Horrible and ignorant arguement straw

[Straw Man]

it originally was but again your comment caused this to decend into what it has.

whether private insurance companies do or not isnt the question perhaps we should research everybody in the company and refuse to use them if someone is pro choice b/c we technically pay their salary? 

we are not technically paying for abortions even if the insurance company pays for them we are paying for a service in the terms of insurance for ourselves and only ourselves. Taxes payed by us would go to fund those who dont pay taxes or pay less taxes health care under obama liberal agenda that you seem to be falling for so why should we not get a say in what we are paying for?

Horrible and ignorant arguement straw

great point - I'm opposed to the war in Iraq and the office of Faith Based Initiatives (just to name a couple of things).

I find both of those to be much more offensive than whether some woman I don't know chooses to have an abortion.

shouldn't I get to choose that MY tax dollars not be used for either of those things

btw - doesn't the Hyde ammendment prevent tax dollars being used to pay for abortions?

[tonymctones]

great point - I'm opposed to the war in Iraq and the office of Faith Based Initiatives (just to name a couple of things).

I find both of those to be much more offensive than whether some woman I don't know chooses to have an abortion.

shouldn't I get to choose that MY tax dollars not be used for either of those things

btw - doesn't the Hyde ammendment prevent tax dollars being used to pay for abortions?

It does give you a legit reason to be concerned and oppose certain acts and legislation which is more then you are willing to give these ppl who are concerned about abortions being payed for with tax dollars...

I think that has been covered on here already it was established that if the legislation doesnt specifically bar it then it would be allowed.

[Straw Man]

It does give you a legit reason to be concerned and oppose certain acts and legislation which is more then you are willing to give these ppl who are concerned about abortions being payed for with tax dollars...

I think that has been covered on here already it was established that if the legislation doesnt specifically bar it then it would be allowed.

fine I oppose them

Guess what - my tax dollars still pay for them anyway

now what do you suggest I do?

perhaps bitch about it on an obscure message board?

[tonymctones]

fine I oppose them

Guess what - my tax dollars still pay for them anyway

now what do you suggest I do?

perhaps bitch about it on an obscure message board?

fine you support obamas liberal agenda what do you propose you do about it defend it on some obscure message board? 

[Straw Man]

fine you support obamas liberal agenda what do you propose you do about it defend it on some obscure message board? 

I wish Obama actually had a liberal agenda

for the record (again) I see no problem with any health care reform (which most likely never happen) including safe access to abortion at the discretion of the patient and her doctor within our current legal system.  I don't give a shit if tax payer dollars pay for it or not.  I assume anti abortion folks will find the same way to deal with it that I deal with my tax dollars being wasted on the office of faith based initiatives

I think the topic of this thread is a classic case of right wing hair splitting used to gin up emotions of a certain segment of the public in order to get them to oppose the larger agenda of health care reform

I expect nothing from this board except some harmless entertainment

[tonymctones]

I wish Obama actually had a liberal agenda

for the record (again) I see no problem with any health care reform (which most likely never happen) including safe access to abortion at the discretion of the patient and her doctor within our current legal system.  I don't give a shit if tax payer dollars pay for it or not.  I assume anti abortion folks will find the same way to deal with it that I deal with my tax dollars being wasted on the office of faith based initiatives

I think the topic of this thread is a classic case of right wing hair splitting used to gin up emotions of a certain segment of the public in order to get them to oppose the larger agenda of health care reform

I expect nothing from this board except some harmless entertainment

that speaks volumes...

I sincerely hope obama does get reform on health care passed I also sincerely hope he doesnt intiate another govt hand out program.

Its not really important but you seem to be facinated with this topic more then anyone your posted more in this thread then beach.

me too