If Jay comes back and wins 4?

[NarcissisticDeity]

oh the irony of the biggest dorian lover on the planet going on about dryness and density in a guy with a back filled with loose folds of skin..

 

now more than ever I am convinced its all about skin colour for you..

the particulars of the physique mean nothing to you.

keep on posting and cementing it in..

I never said he was as hard and as dry as Dorian 

and you're convinced of a lot of wacky shit that's nothing new , like Ronnie had more detailed calves than Dorian , and Dorian lost the 1993 Mr Olympia and Shawn Ray beats Dorian 1995 in a front latspread , and Dorian was the most overrated bodybuilder of all time , so you convinced it's about colour ( sic ) is nothing new

and the particulars of the physique? lmfao what like balance ( which I listed ) density ( which I listed ) dryness ( which I listed ) and muscular bulk? ( which I listed )

You like men with pretty physiques and can't grasp how anyone without them can beat those with , it's nothing more than ignorance on your behalf , again nothing new . and seeing you can't argue with the judging criteria look for a way out in race  you're sinking to new levels like your comrade plumpster what's funny is while you mention race I don't think you ever once said a white guy deserved to beat a black one  I believe they call that projection

I judge physiques per criteria not color

[lax]

sorry Jay, you won because no one good is around anymore

man
you are one angry brother

[Hulkster]

LOL nope. if by 'brother' you mean I am black, no,  I am white as can be.

that has nothing to do with stating the obvious: that shawn is better. not bigger. but better.

[hench]

im no ray fan but he is destroying jay in everything but size. the back shots show just how poor jays is, rays is crisp, defined, sharp. cutlers is none of those.

fact shawn routinely beat guys much bigger than him because of the quality of his physique.

what makes you think this would be any different?:

you think the criteria favors jay?:

think again buddy:

maybe the same fucked up criteria that you think would favor dorian over ronnie, but not in this planet.

not by a long shot:

[NarcissisticDeity]

fact shawn routinely beat guys much bigger than him because of the quality of his physique.

what makes you think this would be any different?:

you think the criteria favors jay?:

think again buddy:

maybe the same fucked up criteria that you think would favor dorian over ronnie, but not in this planet.

not by a long shot:

Oh yes Shawn meets the criteria better than Jay  typical of your ignorance , yes Shawn beat much bigger men and your point? they were lacking Jay isn't

You claims width , width , and width yet Ray has absolutely NONE but it's okay when it's Shawn vs Jay but a major flaw when Flex V Ronnie  hypocrite much?

Jay has better balance than Shawn , Jay is just as hard and as dry as Shawn while carrying a fuck of a lot more muscle , easy math , Jay meets the criteria better , you want to argue Shawn has a prettier physique knock yourself out means nothing according to the criteria

[Hulkster]

im no ray fan but he is destroying jay in everything but size. the back shots show just how poor jays is, rays is crisp, defined, sharp. cutlers is none of those.

thank you.

but ND is blinded by the ivory colour of Jay's skin. just as he favors dorian over the far superior peak ronnie, he somehow thinks Jay would beat shawn..

its always the same. skin color takes a back seat to physique qualities with flowerboy.

he demonstrates it daily.

[Hulkster]

im no ray fan but he is destroying jay in everything but size. the back shots show just how poor jays is, rays is crisp, defined, sharp. cutlers is none of those.

but his back is white, therefore ND likes it more 

[NarcissisticDeity]

thank you.

but ND is blinded by the ivory colour of Jay's skin. just as he favors dorian over the far superior peak ronnie, he somehow thinks Jay would beat shawn..

its always the same. skin color takes a back seat to physique qualities with flowerboy.

he demonstrates it daily.

racist meltdown 

[NarcissisticDeity]

but his back is white, therefore ND likes it more 

Yeah because Shawn really beats Jay in a rear latspread  and standing relaxed from the rear  he's more balanced in those shots  he has better proportion  he's carrying more muscular bulk  he's wider   

Hulkster likes Shawn because he's black and no white guy could possibly be better than a black one 

[NarcissisticDeity]

im no ray fan but he is destroying jay in everything but size. the back shots show just how poor jays is, rays is crisp, defined, sharp. cutlers is none of those.

He's not destroying Jay in balance & proportion or width or thickness , he beats him in crisp muscularity and detail but again that's only part of the criteria

[NarcissisticDeity]

man
you are one angry brother

Hulkster is a selfloathing white guy with an affinity for pretty ebony bodybuilders 

[Mr.1derful]

meltdown 

Shawn would in NO way shape or form beat Jay 09 not in the cards

Exactly.  It wouldn't even be close.

[erics]

In my opinion, Shawn Ray's physique should be an Olympia winning physique.

But OBVIOUSLY the judging leans towards something freakier and shocking. With that in mind, of course Shawn has no chance of beating Yates, Cutler etc.

Jay Cutler IS balanced. So was Dorian in his first two Olympias. When you look at these two guys, nothing really stands out. The difference between these kinds of physiques and Ray's physique is the kind of balance they represent - one is freaky looking while the other is more line based.

The judging criteria is obvously being used to support the freakier (with the odd upset, ala 2008).

[NarcissisticDeity]

In my opinion, Shawn Ray's physique should be an Olympia winning physique.

But OBVIOUSLY the judging leans towards something freakier and shocking. With that in mind, of course Shawn has no chance of beating Yates, Cutler etc.

Jay Cutler IS balanced. So was Dorian in his first two Olympias. When you look at these two guys, nothing really stands out. The difference between these kinds of physiques and Ray's physique is the kind of balance they represent - one is freaky looking while the other is more line based.

The judging criteria is obvously being used to support the freakier (with the odd upset, ala 2008).

Ray's physique isn't balanced he has short legs he has high calves that aren't in proportion with his quads , he's narrow in the clavicles to say he's balanced isn't really the truth

you can say he has pleasing proportions , that is you like where the muscles are and how it appears and perhaps that should be the ideal on what the Olympia should be but you have to take into account the rest of the criteria and even in this area Shawn falls flat on his face compared to guys like Flex Wheeler

the old adage applies a good big man will always beat a great small one , bodybuilding is a ' sport ' for the genetic elite and 5'6" and 205 pounds isn't the elite

here's what wins contests today , size , density , dryness and balance is this what should win contests? that's a matter of semantics it is what it is 

[erics]

Shawn Ray's lines are world class and I would prefer the Olympia and all bodybuilding judging to promote that aspect of the sport. By this I mean that size, conditioning and posing ought to all be directed at highlighting or improving the look of one's lines. But that is my preference.

With a criteria favouring someone like Shawn Ray, then you could legimitise bodybuilding as a sport through that criteria.

However, bodybuilding as it stands today is all about size, density, dryness and balance.

Fair enough, that is what it is but I think bodybuilding would be better off it wasn't.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Shawn Ray's lines are world class and I would prefer the Olympia and all bodybuilding judging to promote that aspect of the sport. By this I mean that size, conditioning and posing ought to all be directed at highlighting or improving the look of one's lines. But that is my preference.

With a criteria favouring someone like Shawn Ray, then you could legimitise bodybuilding as a sport through that criteria.

However, bodybuilding as it stands today is all about size, density, dryness and balance.

Fair enough, that is what it is but I think bodybuilding would be better off it wasn't.

Shawn isn't the yardstick in which conditioned aesthetic mass is judged by that would be Flex Wheeler anyway you may very well be right it might be better for the sport , someone should start their own federation and limit the amount of size on competitors and reward the more aesthetic physiques but going against the IFBB is an exercise in futility

[erics]

To my eyes, Flex post-1993 was a shadow of what he showed in 1993. Despite some more second place Olympia finishes and Arnold Classic victories, I felt his physique looked worse and worse. But then, I'm not an IFBB judge so...

[NarcissisticDeity]

To my eyes, Flex post-1993 was a shadow of what he showed in 1993. Despite some more second place Olympia finishes and Arnold Classic victories, I felt his physique looked worse and worse. But then, I'm not an IFBB judge so...

I agree 1993 was his high mark for his physique

[ChristopherA]

I agree 1993 was his high mark for his physique

Its the high mark for ANY physique my friend.

[erics]

Going back to topic, if Jay comes back and wins number four then hopefully it means that the bst physique on the night won.

In terms of legacy and whether he is among the elite of Mr Olympia winners, well, you can only compete against the opposition that is there. Arnold wins seven Mr Olympias but other than 1980, he only ever really competed against one or two others.

It's not Jay's fault if he beats guys who are 'supposed to be better'. He has every right to beat them if he is in shape.

The whole 'one hit wonder' theory is junk anyway. Samir may only have one Olympia but his victory - virtue of having the best physique on the night you are supposed to have the best physique - ensures his legacy.

As long as Jay comes in shape and the judges are looking for his type of physique, then he deserves to win.

And that, really, is all there is to it.

[ChristopherA]

His legacy is that he was lucky enuff to win multiple Olympias with the worst structure of any winner in history. Yes hes huge and ripped and works hard so congrats. Arnold waxed competition that might not have been out of this world but was presenting a physique that had not the likes of not been seen before.Jays physique is a regression in the standard as far as I am concerned and Arnold is eons ahead of him. Yes blah blah blah Jays 50lbs heavier whatever. Bigger isnt better.

[Hulkster]

. Yes blah blah blah Jays 50lbs heavier whatever. Bigger isnt better.

exactly...some people still don't get this..

[Immortal_Technique]

Ray's physique isn't balanced he has short legs he has high calves that aren't in proportion with his quads , he's narrow in the clavicles to say he's balanced isn't really the truth

you can say he has pleasing proportions , that is you like where the muscles are and how it appears and perhaps that should be the ideal on what the Olympia should be but you have to take into account the rest of the criteria and even in this area Shawn falls flat on his face compared to guys like Flex Wheeler

the old adage applies a good big man will always beat a great small one , bodybuilding is a ' sport ' for the genetic elite and 5'6" and 205 pounds isn't the elite

here's what wins contests today , size , density , dryness and balance is this what should win contests? that's a matter of semantics it is what it is 

Well yes, but Flex Wheeler had no calves, until he got fake ones. Pretty narrow, until he got fake shoulders. And very narrow "disappearing" style rear lat spread. Also his chest was smaller than his delts. I know he is "the sultan of symmetry" because of his great natural lines, but in today's climate his quads would appear small, although well separated, and his disappearing back would hold him back just like it did in the 90s. This year's flat version of Heath had many of the same strengths and weaknesses.

Ray had worse shoulders than Flex (at least they were real) but a better back in the rear lat spread. Flex had the detail in the rear double bi. Shawn had proper quads, did actually have good calves, as good as someone like Cormier anyway, and certainly better than Flex.

Flex maybe had the better physique at his best, but you can pic anyone apart, even Flex. Did he not look narrow and small next to Dorian in 93 after all?

[Royalty]

your getting to be even dumber than ND..

Jay would get crushed by any of those guys in top shape:

take for example Ray, its not even close:

jay absolutely crushed Shawn at the 2001 Olympia. Not even close.

[Royalty]

Agreed. Hes simply the current best.If Victor could ever fulfill his potential he would hand Jay his ass but who knows if that will ever happen.

victor had his chances. Maybe he reached his potential. Jay wins everytime. Jay bats 1000 against victor