New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?

[karu]

"we" would imply that you have had a vote on your proposals versus Bob Chick arbitrarily deciding whats best for the people you claim to represent.

but that didn't happen did it?

Changed from what to what? The athletes get judged on Sat...

I use the word WE as I am a part of the pro league and represent the athletes interests...who do you think proposes the changes? In order to represent the "fair dinkum", one needs to have a voice at the table...not quite sure what "back room" YOU'RE used to being in...but the Pro League meeting minutes are posted, as in the case of this thread.

ImBasile

[240 is Back]

LOL @ Ronnie whooping melvin Anthony in the posing round...

[erics]

Then whats the point of even working on your posing? If it doesn't matter then everyone shouldn't bother with it. 

The reason that most posing routines have been boring Chick is that most Bodybuilders are Mediocre posers! No one has ever complained about the entertainment value of watching Lee Labrada, Bob Paris, Rusty Jeffers, etc, pose.

If there was more value attached to presentation, it would force bodybuilders to work harder at it, hire people to help them prep/choreograph their routines, etc. Of course the IFBB wouldn't want to actually try and uphold their standards... 

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

By removing the posing round - and by extension posing itself - you are simply lowering the standards of bodybuilding as a sport (at least when viewed as an artistic sport). You are destroying the potential of this sport by taking away the opportunity for athletes to find other ways to excel in it.

By actually making a competition out of it, you can actually increase the atmosphere, excitement and tension for spectators - not to mention the athletes.

This is a terrible decision. It reflects a lack of awareness of what constitutes the basis for entertainment in modern sports and reveals an incredible lack of vision on behalf of the management of the IFBB.

My God, now that I think about it, has the IFBB ever made use of a sports marketing consultancy firm in order to highlght ways of improving the sport?

What a waste of potential.

[Chick]

"we" would imply that you have had a vote on your proposals versus Bob Chick arbitrarily deciding whats best for the people you claim to represent.

but that didn't happen did it?

Vote on it? It WAS my proposal...I dont "claim" to represent them...I do.

[Chick]

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

By removing the posing round - and by extension posing itself - you are simply lowering the standards of bodybuilding as a sport (at least when viewed as an artistic sport). You are destroying the potential of this sport by taking away the opportunity for athletes to find other ways to excel in it.

By actually making a competition out of it, you can actually increase the atmosphere, excitement and tension for spectators - not to mention the athletes.

This is a terrible decision. It reflects a lack of awareness of what constitutes the basis for entertainment in modern sports and reveals an incredible lack of vision on behalf of the management of the IFBB.

My God, now that I think about it, has the IFBB ever made use of a sports marketing consultancy firm in order to highlght ways of improving the sport?

What a waste of potential.

No one is removing the posing round.

[erics]

No one is removing the posing round.

But you are for all intents and purposes removing it from consideration.

Again, I wonder just how much the IFBB and its management seriously consider how their decisions impact on the viablity of bodybuilding as a sport.

Bodybuilding may never go mainstream but a touch of dignity would go a long way towards it at least being accepted as a respected oddity in the sports and entertainment world.

[Chick]

But you are for all intents and purposes removing it from consideration.

Again, I wonder just how much the IFBB and its management seriously consider how their decisions impact on the viablity of bodybuilding as a sport.

Bodybuilding may never go mainstream but a touch of dignity would go a long way towards it at least being accepted as a respected oddity in the sports and entertainment world.

There is no "for all intent and purpose"...

It has never been judged, so what is changing in your mind?

[erics]

There is no "for all intent and purpose"...

It has never been judged, so what is changing in your mind?

That is the whole point.

By removing any chance for consideration, you are also removing any chance for any meaningful progress in the sport beyond how big the athletes can get.

By making the ability to pose an integral part of the sport, you automatically raise the level of dignity that the sport can present.

If you are concerned about poor physiques winning with great posing, then that would simply be a matter of how much you weigh the scores in favour of each criteria.

In anycase, by the time you get to to where it matters, the ability to pose and present your physique ought to make a real difference between those who are very close in terms of size, conditioning and proportion. Set up correctly, this importance in the posing round could create real tension and excitement for spectators.

[Chick]

That is the whole point.

By removing any chance for consideration, you are also removing any chance for any meaningful progress in the sport beyond how big the athletes can get.

By making the ability to pose an integral part of the sport, you automatically raise the level of dignity that the sport can present.

If you are concerned about poor physiques winning with great posing, then that would simply be a matter of how much you weigh the scores in favour of each criteria.

In anycase, by the time you get to to where it matters, the ability to pose and present your physique ought to make a real difference between those who are very close in terms of size, conditioning and proportion. Set up correctly, this importance in the posing round could create real tension and excitement for spectators.

You still need the ability to pose, in the prejudging...mandatories, individual posing round, and finals...if making 10K DOESNT MOTIVATE THE GUYS, THEN NOTHING WILL.

Even when the guys believed they WERE gettng judged on the routine, we had a 95% lame/ boring routines...

Now, they have a chance at some real money...and we open up the floodgates for some real entertainment, while not handcuffed by this imaginary "scoring" of the posing round.

You're not thinking this through

[bigdumbbell]

there shouldnt be any night shows in BB....PERIOD.

[erics]

You still need the ability to pose, in the prejudging...mandatories, individual posing round, and finals...if making 10K DOESNT MOTIVATE THE GUYS, THEN NOTHING WILL.

Even when the guys believed they WERE gettng judged on the routine, we had a 95% lame/ boring routines...

Now, they have a chance at some real money...and we open up the floodgates for some real entertainment, while not handcuffed by this imaginary "scoring" of the posing round.

You're not thinking this through

Again, that is the point. They 'believed' they were getting judged but in fact they were not. Is it any wonder then that the posing got worse and worse?

Real entertainment ought to come form the sport itself through the process of its competition. The posing round and being able to pose should be an integral part of this, not something tacked on as part of the 'side entertainment.'

If there is somehow 'real money' available now for the best poser, why not increase the total prize money pool for the lower placed guys (ie, 6-10) so that their ability to pose can have a real impact on their placings and so make for more exciting competition?

[Pecs]

shoudl not even include it if it is not scored. Cos the bbers will not put in effort to put a good routine

[mantronik]

You're right, I've had this on the table for the last 2 years.

Since november 2005 actually...last 4 years

[bigdumbbell]

most BB today are only talented about substance use.  most haven't even an ability to walk across a balance beam. 

[Chick]

Again, that is the point. They 'believed' they were getting judged but in fact they were not. Is it any wonder then that the posing got worse and worse?

Real entertainment ought to come form the sport itself through the process of its competition. The posing round and being able to pose should be an integral part of this, not something tacked on as part of the 'side entertainment.'

If there is somehow 'real money' available now for the best poser, why not increase the total prize money pool for the lower placed guys (ie, 6-10) so that their ability to pose can have a real impact on their placings and so make for more exciting competition?

Competition is only so exciting...you can only see so many front DB and lat spreads before it becomes wallpaper...by the same token, you can only sit through so many lame posing routines...

This is still a BODYBUILDING competition at the end of the day, and someone like a ken Jones should not be placed ahead of guys that are obviously better because he had a better routine.....

[erics]

Competition is only so exciting...you can only see so many front DB and lat spreads before it becomes wallpaper...by the same token, you can only sit through so many lame posing routines...

This is still a BODYBUILDING competition at the end of the day, and someone like a ken Jones should not be placed ahead of guys that are obviously better because he had a better routine.....

True, which is why you organise the process of competition so as to make it interesting. Even two fat cows running across a field becomes interesting when the viewer kows something is at stake. It becomes even more interesting when the viewer knows why something is at stake.

A simple measure would be to actually judge the posing round as posing ability, with a few points kept in reserve for conditioning perhaps. The guys who have made it through the qualifying rounds to be afforded a chance to pose then get to see how far their posing can take them over similarly conditioned guys.

Basically you set everything up so that the posing becomes relevant in determing the who places where amongst those guys who are in the mix.

[erics]

As an extra, there ought to be a limit on the number of competitors for the very reason of boredom through repetition. That way, everything that one does on that stage becomes important in determing placings.

Look at sports like gymnastics and figure skating. How many times can you view the same triple-back-flip-thingy before it gets old hat? That doesn't stop those sports being exceedignly popular in their countries. It doesn't stop them from being entertaining nor does it stop them from being sports.

It seems to me that bodybuiding has fallen into the trap of believing its own razzle and dazzle.

[bigdumbbell]

if there's a night showit should be entertainment driven not all those talentless posers

[Alex23]

Chick destroying lots of weak posters on here.

Nothing more to say.

[jwb]

hey chick have you ever thought about having the guys pose in ascending order at night according to their prejudging scores?

ie. the last place guy from the prejudging poses first and the first place guy poses last? wouldn't that build some drama and have the crowd more excited and interested as to if the 2nd, 3rd guys can take over the first place guy in the posedown and win the contest?

[Chick]

hey chick have you ever thought about having the guys pose in ascending order at night according to their prejudging scores?

ie. the last place guy from the prejudging poses first and the first place guy poses last? wouldn't that build some drama and have the crowd more excited and interested as to if the 2nd, 3rd guys can take over the first place guy in the posedown and win the contest?

No, it would just let everyone know what the placings are and make it LESS attractive to attend...

[kyomu]

Chic, ANSWER my question please.

Then STILL  IS IT A OBLIGATION FOR THEM TO DO THE POSING ROUTINE?

[Mr Nobody]

Chic, ANSWER my question please.

Then STILL  IS IT A OBLIGATION FOR THEM TO DO THE POSING ROUTINE?

Yes if the round dont count why have it? My guess so people will show up and pay money.

[nycbull]

what is sad is that the new generation of bb's cannot sustain the golden age rules. They have dropped the ball for sure.

Is this a result of sociologial change? No, more likely a result of the dumbing down of America, the lack of any education in the arts is showing itself in this ignorant decision to devalue the posing round. By marginilzing it, it will probably disappear all together.

Using profit as the only measure of somethings value is what is wrong with America today and with the IFBB. If there is no interest in art for the sake of art then so be it. But don't complain when your culture becomes more and more vacuous by the coporations that control it and you are feeling empty and spiritually lost.

The posing round was a way of taking the physical into the etheral. Making just simple biology and flesh into art. That was exciting and transformative.  Just going for big muscles through pharmacueticals and displaying them on stage to be measured is very animalistic and dull. Why not just leave slabs of marble on museum floors, no bother to see what they can become? Or leave canvasas empty? Why bother taking the everyday physical world into the realm of the spiritual? If it doesnt make money then get rid of it right?

The IFBB is just dumbing us down some more with this latest decision. Devaluing a tradition that inspired many of us to believe that through hard work, disipline and stick to it-ness we could transform something mortal into something magnificent.  Too bad the IFBB couldnt stick to it.

What makes me wonder about people that make decisions like this, is dont they have any gratituted to the world they grew up in. They seem to want to just rape and pillage it taking all material posession for themselves leaving nothing for the next generation, not even art.

[karu]

so you admit to arbitrarily making proposals on others behalf, without consent.
"It was my proposal".

Making the IFBB more like the NPC. Has Manion already tapped you as his successor?

Vote on it? It WAS my proposal...I dont "claim" to represent them...I do.