New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?

[Alex23]

fixed

Sounds like the "wounds" are still fresh...

[jwb]

this may have been 21 years ago but it is light years ahead of what anyone today could pull off... so much for progress...

[Chick]

this may have been 21 years ago but it is light years ahead of what anyone today could pull off... so much for progress...

Yet, he managed to only place 4th in the posing round...

case and point

[erics]

It's not basic sports marketing, as BB is not basic sports in any sense of the word

This response sums up why bodybuilding is eating itself alive.

It's not necessary to agree with everything that has been suggested but the responses given offer little in the way of constructive criticism.

We know bodybuilding is not mainstream.
We know the posing round has not really been judged.
We know bodybuilding is basically about conditioned muscle.
We know that bodybuilding is not gymnastics.

We know all of these things and so simply repeating them as a 'response' doesn't serve the debate or the discussion one iota.

If we want to improve things (and I assume that is what we want to do) then it is encumbent upon the IFBB and its representatives to be able to discuss the issues, their causes, implications and possibilities, intelligently and with a sense of awareness.

[Chick]

This response sums up why bodybuilding is eating itself alive.

It's not necessary to agree with everything that has been suggested but the responses given offer little in the way of constructive criticism.

We know bodybuilding is not mainstream.
We know the posing round has not really been judged.
We know bodybuilding is basically about conditioned muscle.
We know that bodybuilding is not gymnastics.

We know all of these things and so simply repeating them as a 'response' doesn't serve the debate or the discussion one iota.

If we want to improve things (and I assume that is what we want to do) then it is encumbent upon the IFBB and its representatives to be able to discuss the issues, their causes, implications and possibilities, intelligently and with a sense of awareness.

We do discuss the issues...just because you are not a part of it, doesnt mean it doesnt take place.

As I said, it HAS been explained, over and over...you're either unwilling, or incapable of understanding what has been answered.

[erics]

Yet, he managed to only place 4th in the posing round...

case and point

Case and point indeed...

If the value of such posing wasn't weighted properly, then maybe, just maybe, it ought to be?!

How the potential of such posing for the sport and beyond is being missed by the IFBB is beyond me.

[MB]

Bob, you mentioned last night on PBW that you're in favor of the judges bringing out competitors for additional comparisons, if needed, after the posing round.  That would possibly enable someone who is not in the top 6 after pre-judging to suddenly move into the top 6 right before the posedown.  Isn't that creating a third round of scoring and devaluing the pre-judging? 

[erics]

But for the fans, nothing really has been answered.

This is what is so frustrating. Most of the answers I have read have just been the repeating of the supposed negatives, negatives that seem to destroy any chance of improving them.

Anyway, I'm sure you are sick and tired of reading what I have to write so I will call it quits for now.

I also hope you understand that I am not intentionally personally attacking you or anybody. I'm just one of those fans that would simply like to see the potential of bodybuilding realised.

[Chick]

Case and point indeed...

If the value of such posing wasn't weighted properly, then maybe, just maybe, it ought to be?!

How the potential of such posing for the sport and beyond is being missed by the IFBB is beyond me.

It's all "beyond you"...which is why you're having such a tough time understanding it. Maybe thats the problem...

So whats the "value" of posing?  10%? 40%? 90%? you cant compare diametrically different routines...

[Chick]

Bob, you mentioned last night on PBW that you're in favor of the judges bringing out competitors for additional comparisons, if needed, after the posing round.  That would possibly enable someone who is not in the top 6 after pre-judging to suddenly move into the top 6 right before the posedown.  Isn't that creating a third round of scoring and devaluing the pre-judging? 

No...I'm interested in the guys being compared fairly and the judges having the opportunity to get it right by whatever and however many rounds necessary.

PRE judging is just that...PRE. As it doesnt represent ALL the judging, or the culmination of the judging...thats why the value for Sat has been increased

[erics]

It's all "beyond you"...which is why you're having such a tough time understanding it. Maybe thats the problem...

So whats the "value" of posing?  10%? 40%? 90%? you cant compare diametrically different routines...

That kind of thinking is self-defeating.

They are able to do it in the other artistic/creative sports.

Why not bodybuilding?

(sorry, I couldn't resist responding to this post...)

[Chick]

But for the fans, nothing really has been answered.

This is what is so frustrating. Most of the answers I have read have just been the repeating of the supposed negatives, negatives that seem to destroy any chance of improving them.

Anyway, I'm sure you are sick and tired of reading what I have to write so I will call it quits for now.

I also hope you understand that I am not intentionally personally attacking you or anybody. I'm just one of those fans that would simply like to see the potential of bodybuilding realised.

The positives have been outlined and answered...you just choose to not respond to them.

[Chick]

That kind of thinking is self-defeating.

They are able to do it in the other artistic/creative sports.


Name one

Why not bodybuilding?

(sorry, I couldn't resist responding to this post...)

[erics]

You're not serious are you?

- gymnastics
- rhythmic gymnastics
- figure skating
- ballroom dancing
- equestrian
- synchronised swimming
- cheerleading
- etc etc

[MB]

No...I'm interested in the guys being compared fairly and the judges having the opportunity to get it right by whatever and however many rounds necessary.

PRE judging is just that...PRE. As it doesnt represent ALL the judging, or the culmination of the judging...thats why the value for Sat has been increased

If the judges can arbitrarily create a third round that changes their pre-judging placings right before the posedown, then that opens the door for all kinds of scandals.  I thought the goal was to have pre-judging count as 50% and the posedown count as 50%.  If you can make the top 6 after pre-judging, then suddenly be removed from the top 6 right before the posedown (by some unscored round), that's opening a can of worms.       

[Chick]

You're not serious are you?

- gymnastics
- rhythmic gymnastics
- figure skating
- ballroom dancing
- equestrian
- synchronised swimming
- cheerleading
- etc etc

What are they able to do?  Gymnastics, figure skating have their own issues with judging and controversy because of the very nature of subjective judging...

We dont use props as some of the other sports you mention do....so you can eliminate them

[Chick]

If the judges can arbitrarily create a third round that changes their pre-judging placings right before the posedown, then that opens the door for all kinds of scandals.  I thought the goal was to have pre-judging count as 50% and the posedown count as 50%.  If you can make the top 6 after pre-judging, then suddenly be removed from the top 6 right before the posedown (by some unscored round), that's opening a can of worms.       

Can of worms?  Judging is judging...I personally dont care how many rounds they need, as long as they get it right and the guys have an opportunity to be compared...I guess they couldnt  just open that Pandors Box in the prejudging, right? They would have to wait until the night show?

You're grasping at straws...

[erics]

Of course there are issues but the judging criteria is very clear for both the fans and the athletes. By extension, the judging becomes accountable.

As for the use of props, that is inconsequential to the issue.

It is not a matter of 'eliminating them' because they have different criteria or styles or equipment or whatever. The issue is how these sports have come to terms with the aspect of subjectivity.

[Milos_Sarcev]

Well said...

Thwe bottom line is that the "posing round" has never been scored as such, and gave the false impression that this was a round in which someone with the best posing could actually move up...

By eliminating the actual scoring of this round, we open it up to awarding PRIZE MONEY to someone that actually HAS the best routine/ most entertaining, etc...without compromising the judging.

The other objective was having the posedown count..if were going to have 2 day shows, then BOTH should count as such, and athletes should have a chance to catch up/ show that they have the better physique. The posing at a BB show is a showcase of the physique and we need to start expanding the thinking into more entertainment and putting out "shows" rather than competitions (which are for the most part, a giant snooze fest)...prejudging= competition...finals=entertainment

Idiotic - as always...You keep giving the false impression that symmetry round is for symmetry only... posing round for posing...etc...when everyone knows that IN EVERY ROUND PHYSIQUES ARE BEING JUDGED - and "rounds" only determine which poses would be required for athletes to do...

#1) In symmetry round we have 4 relax poses - and judges are not judging "symmetry only" but as Jim Manion answered to me at 1997 Mr. Olympia press conference: judges are judging BEST PHYSIQUES in every round...

#2) In muscularity round we have 8 mandatory poses - and judges are judging (again) best physiques in those exact mandatory poses...

#3) In free posing round we, the athletes have freedom to present to judges and the audience our physiques in poses other than mandatory (4 relax + 8 compulsory)... - genius

 Posing round was never intended to be judged for "best posing routine", best posing skills...movement, choreography...
but JUST LIKE OTHER ROUNDS - for the best PHYSIQUE...

[Chick]

Of course there are issues but the judging criteria is very clear for both the fans and the athletes. By extension, the judging becomes accountable.

As for the use of props, that is inconsequential to the issue.

It is not a matter of 'eliminating them' because they have different criteria or styles or equipment or whatever. The issue is how these sports have come to terms with the aspect of subjectivity.

The judging criteria is only clear in that thye have mandatory moves that must be done (i.e-floor routine in gymnastics)...but the artistic score is and has always been at th forefront of controversy because its completely subjective...now we get to bb, where the ENTIRE sport is subjective and we dont have any athletic elements...now were just back to opinion and interpretation...

The use of props is NOT inconsequential to the issue...with them, we look like a circus and the fans dont like it (ie.-WBF)  without them, it is accepted but limit the amount one can be creative with a posing routine...

The only real issue is elimination of a outdated, useless scoring round that limits the creativity and potential money earning to athletes...

[Milos_Sarcev]

Yet, he managed to only place 4th in the posing round...

case and point

He was 4th as judges saw his physique - as 4th in this "free posing round"...If POSING or movement would be what is being judged - any professional dancers with no muscles whatsoever could win Mr. Olympia posing round...

Bob, it is painful to listen to all your nonsense...

BTW - how many athletes did vote for this change?

And I asked ATHLETES, not how many OFFICIALS...as we all know this "order" is coming from papa Giepetto...and you Pinocchio have to convince the athletes...somehow...Hmm mm?

Can you provide list of majority of IFBB pros asking for this change?

Or - yet another "Bobservation" is coming up...








BTW - for those of you who didn't get new addition of Webster Dictionary:
[Bobservation - inability to tell the truth if your life depends on it...]

[MB]

If there is going to be a best poser award for the free posing routines, there should be some ground rules.  I'd start with no dancing and each mandatory pose can only be shown once.  That would even the field and get the guys thinking creatively to fill their 2 minute routines.  One last rule, no walking back and forth across the stage asking for applause.  If you want applause, bring a good routine.     

[Chick]

Idiotic - as always...You keep giving the false impression that symmetry round is for symmetry only... posing round for posing...etc...when everyone knows that IN EVERY ROUND PHYSIQUES ARE BEING JUDGED - and "rounds" only determine which poses would be required for athletes to do...

True, which makes calling them "symmetry round"/ "posing round", etc....pretty much obsolete as it's misleading and confusing for the athletes and fans

#1) In symmetry round we have 4 relax poses - and judges are not judging "symmetry only" but as Jim Manion answered to me at 1997 Mr. Olympia press conference: judges are judging BEST PHYSIQUES in every round...

Physique round #1

#2) In muscularity round we have 8 mandatory poses - and judges are judging (again) best physiques in those exact mandatory poses...

Physique round #2

#3) In free posing round we, the athletes have freedom to present to judges and the audience our physiques in poses other than mandatory (4 relax + 8 compulsory)... - genius

Physique round #3

 Posing round was never intended to be judged for "best posing routine", best posing skills...movement, choreography...
but JUST LIKE OTHER ROUNDS - for the best PHYSIQUE...


Which is the very reason it's being changed...

Physique round #4

Whats idiotic, is even wasting my time responding to you, as you have as much to do with the IFBB as any anonymous gimmick on this site...but I'll answer for everyone else to see.

[Milos_Sarcev]

Whats idiotic, is even wasting my time responding to you, as you have as much to do with the IFBB as any anonymous gimmick on this site...but I'll answer for everyone else to see.

Ouch Bobby The Clown stating yet another nonsense...
I have as much to do with the IFBB as any anonymous gimmick on this site...?

I had 10 consecutive Mr. Olympia qualifications, title of the IFBB PRO Champion and 72 IFBB pro shows "under my belt".
I've assisted numerous IFBB pros throughout the years and helped many promoters in their efforts to put great IFBB shows - for the fans...

My unjustifiable suspension should be embarrassment for the Federation and for the record - I'll give you a chance to show your "testicular fortitude" once again...Bozo.

You already owe me $50 K for one of your common, typical, everyday "getbig" stupidity (hence saying: stupid is what stupid Bob does) - betting me that you were able to purchase Humalog - WITHOUT PRESCRIPTION in particular store in Southern California...and I guarantee that you didn't...All you could get was Humulin R, N, U, L...and maybe mixes...but 100% for sure - NOT HUMALOG!
Not now, not ever...as simply - anyone could check rules and regulations of California pharmaceutical laws...and realize that Humalog was available only through valid Rx - medical prescription...

So, after you've put your both feet in your (fortunately...I guess?) big mouth - and realized that you are in trouble - as your usual chicken-shit self with zero integrity - what did you do...?

Of course - instead of admitting your mistake - you manipulated the truth...as always.

Whats more - you felt the need to challenge me and bet me...and not just bet me...but throw some fortune cookies...I mean balls at me - checking my "testicular fortitude"...

So, I called your bluff and raised your bet from $5000 to $50000...as anything else would be considered - lousy "estrogenous foreplay" in comparison...

Now, you can take me up on double or nothing...as I am going to tell you that I am coming back to MY CHOSEN FEDERATION, where I spent most of my life in...and as you are suggesting otherwise - here is your opportunity to "get me"...

You want to bet that I will NOT be reinstated (as you are so arrogantly saying)?

Common Bobby - check those raisins down there and put your money where your mouth is ...

I'll be glad to accept your offer.

[The Showstoppa]

Milos has spoken.