Author Topic: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?  (Read 30514 times)

Chick

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Re: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?
« Reply #200 on: October 22, 2009, 06:19:10 PM »
chick,

how does the new system give the guys out of the top 6 a fair shake?

prejudging will still be dominated by callouts for the top placings with a few extra callouts for the other guys but not against the top guys.

posing round isn't judged so a guy who may shine in his signature poses doesn't get any points for it (a great example was berry demey... wasn't the strongest in the compulsories but had so many signature poses where he looked awesome and it often brought him up in the ranks during the night show)

only the top 6 will be judged at all at night now.

how will a guy on the fringes get the chance to be compared to the top tier?


The guys have NEVER gotten any points for it, and few examples can be made for anyone out of the money, moving up anywhere...

Personally, I'm not opposed to the judges calling out the top 10 for a quick run down...but thats up to the pro league to consider....problem is, a line has to be drawn somewhere (case can be made for the guy in 16th m oving up to 15th, etc..) and we could be there for 8 hours...

Bottom line is, it aint 4th grade t-ball where everyone gets a shot...it's PRO BB, and the best of the best will shine and place in the money spots...

Consider it elimination rounds...

Chick

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Re: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?
« Reply #201 on: October 22, 2009, 06:22:50 PM »
how many of your proposals were voted on and approved by the athletes you claim to represent?

zero


None...I dont rule by committee. I get a general consensus from the many pro's I'm in contact with throughout the year, and some ideas come from the athletes themselves....

I have yet to receive a single complaint from anyone I represent

Chick

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Re: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?
« Reply #202 on: October 22, 2009, 06:30:42 PM »
That in itself means nothing. You can't infer that your ideas are necessarily better than another person's's simply because you are in a position to have the IFBB accept them. The only thing you can infer is that you are in a better position to have ideas accepted. After all, on what basis does the IFBB accept such proposals?


My ideas (and those I submit on other athletes behalf) are the only ones that matter....everyone has an opinion, and idea, a proposal...and the IFBB accepts proposals on the basis of the representatives of the athletes that a part of the pro league....

As for the proposals themselves, on what basis are they necessarily making things better? Are they short-term benefits? What direction will they take the sport? These are things that professionals, consultants, marketers, planners etc consider. You and the IFBB may very well have considered them, but judging by what has been posted, the fans would never know.

I'm not sure where you're coming from...does the NFL conduct a poll of the fans to make changes?  All the minutes from the meetings are posted for anyone to see...I dont hire a firm of marketers, planners to conduct a 2 year study on how elimination the posing round will affect the public opinion of anonymous posters on the internet....

As for what "basis" the proposals are making things better....read them, and you tell me. I'm sure you have already armed yourself with the knowledge of whats been presented, accepted, rejected, etc....right?


I'm up for it.

jwb

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Re: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?
« Reply #203 on: October 22, 2009, 07:14:19 PM »

The guys have NEVER gotten any points for it, and few examples can be made for anyone out of the money, moving up anywhere...

Personally, I'm not opposed to the judges calling out the top 10 for a quick run down...but thats up to the pro league to consider....problem is, a line has to be drawn somewhere (case can be made for the guy in 16th m oving up to 15th, etc..) and we could be there for 8 hours...

Bottom line is, it aint 4th grade t-ball where everyone gets a shot...it's PRO BB, and the best of the best will shine and place in the money spots...

Consider it elimination rounds...
I agree the posing round shouldn't be scored... only because I don't think they would do a good job if they actually tried to do it as a posing round.

However I think there will need to be some tweaking of the prejudging since only the top 6 get to be judged after the prejudging is over.

The one thing guys who are 7th thru 15th ALWAYS complain about is not being compared at all or not enough... often a guy is placed close to someone they don't even get a callout against.

Can we expect more callouts now that the posing round isn't to be judged?

Can we expect a longer, more detailed posedown round (which includes more comparisons and the actual posedown) since that will now be half the total scoring?

Chick

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Re: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?
« Reply #204 on: October 22, 2009, 07:18:11 PM »
I agree the posing round shouldn't be scored... only because I don't think they would do a good job if they actually tried to do it as a posing round.

However I think there will need to be some tweaking of the prejudging since only the top 6 get to be judged after the prejudging is over.

The one thing guys who are 7th thru 15th ALWAYS complain about is not being compared at all or not enough... often a guy is placed close to someone they don't even get a callout against.

Can we expect more callouts now that the posing round isn't to be judged?

Can we expect a longer, more detailed posedown round (which includes more comparisons and the actual posedown) since that will now be half the total scoring?


Yes, you can expect both of those things...as for comparisons......of course the lower placed guys complain about being compared, its the nature of the beast

jwb

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Re: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?
« Reply #205 on: October 22, 2009, 07:29:36 PM »

Yes, you can expect both of those things...as for comparisons......of course the lower placed guys complain about being compared, its the nature of the beast
nice to hear that adjustment will hopefully be made...



nycbull

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Re: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?
« Reply #206 on: October 22, 2009, 07:32:31 PM »
None...I dont rule by committee. I get a general consensus from the many pro's I'm in contact with throughout the year, and some ideas come from the athletes themselves....

I have yet to receive a single complaint from anyone I represent

Is there a system for filing complaints, and what would happen to an athlete if he did complain? Would he be seen as disgruntled and thus be watched more closely?

jwb

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Re: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?
« Reply #207 on: October 22, 2009, 07:36:46 PM »
Is there a system for filing complaints, and what would happen to an athlete if he did complain? Would he be seen as disgruntled and thus be watched more closely?
I think the ifbb has been pretty good in regards to upset bbers really...

I mean samir bannout punched out a promoter and still got to compete again!

Chick

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Re: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?
« Reply #208 on: October 22, 2009, 07:38:48 PM »
Is there a system for filing complaints, and what would happen to an athlete if he did complain? Would he be seen as disgruntled and thus be watched more closely?

Watched by who? The system is simple...an athlte has an issue, concern, complaint, idea, etc...they come to me (or any of the reps) and say whats on their mind...we either answer their question, or take it to the brass as a general complaint/ concern without mention of specific names.  It goes from there

erics

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Re: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?
« Reply #209 on: October 22, 2009, 07:50:33 PM »
My ideas (and those I submit on other athletes behalf) are the only ones that matter....everyone has an opinion, and idea, a proposal...and the IFBB accepts proposals on the basis of the representatives of the athletes that a part of the pro league....

Great, now we are getting somewhere.

The ideas that you submit are of course the only ones that matter. However, is there an official channel within the IFBB that allows others to submit proposals etc. Do these proposals have to go through you (for example) and on what basis do they pass any first stage?

I'm not sure where you're coming from...does the NFL conduct a poll of the fans to make changes?  All the minutes from the meetings are posted for anyone to see...I dont hire a firm of marketers, planners to conduct a 2 year study on how elimination the posing round will affect the public opinion of anonymous posters on the internet....

Basically, accountability. It's probably not necessary to have teams of marketers etc but it wouldn't hurt for an organisation the size of the IFBB, with all of the money that is involved, to have a game plan. Most business have such plans, whether they are 6 month, year-long etc. Not withstanding in-house political manoeuvrings (which are the bane of all organisations) and short-term gratifications, both financial and otherwise, what do the IFBB expect will come of its decisions in the long term? In other words, what vision do they have for the sport?

As for the basis of the proposals, well, they don't appear to be guided by any vision of where to take the sport but instead seem reactionary.

Again, I would like to reiterate that I am not attacking you or anyone. Being in a more politically influential position than everyone else on these boards, I am just hoping that you will consider the advantages of some of the more reasoned out posts rather than just rejectng them or considering them attacks.

Just trying to raise the bar here Chick, that's all.

nycbull

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Re: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?
« Reply #210 on: October 22, 2009, 08:03:49 PM »
Watched by who? The system is simple...an athlte has an issue, concern, complaint, idea, etc...they come to me (or any of the reps) and say whats on their mind...we either answer their question, or take it to the brass as a general complaint/ concern without mention of specific names.  It goes from there

 well that seems OK but leaves room for misinterpretation, Wouldnt it be better if there was a written record of it, so it can be tracked and followed up on in a systematic way. Even for legal reasons that would make sense.


Chick

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Re: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?
« Reply #211 on: October 22, 2009, 08:13:28 PM »
Great, now we are getting somewhere.

The ideas that you submit are of course the only ones that matter. However, is there an official channel within the IFBB that allows others to submit proposals etc. Do these proposals have to go through you (for example) and on what basis do they pass any first stage?


Well, thats kind of the whole point to having reps, for the men, they go through me. For the women, they go through their respective reps...

Basically, accountability. It's probably not necessary to have teams of marketers etc but it wouldn't hurt for an organisation the size of the IFBB, with all of the money that is involved, to have a game plan. Most business have such plans, whether they are 6 month, year-long etc. Not withstanding in-house political manoeuvrings (which are the bane of all organisations) and short-term gratifications, both financial and otherwise, what do the IFBB expect will come of its decisions in the long term? In other words, what vision do they have for the sport?

Unfortunately, the IFBB has never really been run like a business with long term plans, etc. If the shows were put on BY the IFBB, then I would agree with you in principle....but they are not.  They have always been content to have outside promoters put on their shows, etc...not my choice, but the IFBB has been around alot longer than I have.

As for the basis of the proposals, well, they don't appear to be guided by any vision of where to take the sport but instead seem reactionary.

Some are reactionary (as a result of past or present influence) and some are put forth as a means for making it better for the future athletes in terms of earning potential, health coverage, etc...

Again, I would like to reiterate that I am not attacking you or anyone. Being in a more politically influential position than everyone else on these boards, I am just hoping that you will consider the advantages of some of the more reasoned out posts rather than just rejectng them or considering them attacks.

I hear you...but they are few and far between, as I'm sure you have seen...tough to get any real input from outside people with virtually no knowledge of the inner workings of a company...

Just trying to raise the bar here Chick, that's all.

As am I

erics

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Re: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?
« Reply #212 on: October 22, 2009, 09:36:32 PM »
Quote
Unfortunately, the IFBB has never really been run like a business with long term plans, etc. If the shows were put on BY the IFBB, then I would agree with you in principle....but they are not.  They have always been content to have outside promoters put on their shows, etc...not my choice, but the IFBB has been around alot longer than I have.

I thought as much. That's a real shame.

Doesn't the IFBB have any control over how it wishes the sport to be presented? That would be the major benefit in having a more clear cut vision with which to direct the sport.

Thanks for answering my questions the way you did.

nycbull

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Re: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?
« Reply #213 on: October 23, 2009, 10:57:09 PM »
how does the IFBB make money exactly..Where does their power come from?

jwb

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Re: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?
« Reply #214 on: October 24, 2009, 12:12:17 AM »
how does the IFBB make money exactly..Where does their power come from?
you wanna put on a pro show you have to give them money upfront to do it... one way they make money

karu

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Re: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?
« Reply #215 on: October 24, 2009, 05:42:49 PM »
Its funny how your agenda is accomplished through a  "general consensus" that exists only in your mind.

btw - tamali and colt prince agreeing with you doesn't constitute a consensus.

most pros don't care what you do, seeing that your in manions pants anyway.


None...I dont rule by committee. I get a general consensus from the many pro's I'm in contact with throughout the year, and some ideas come from the athletes themselves....

I have yet to receive a single complaint from anyone I represent

karu

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Re: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?
« Reply #216 on: October 24, 2009, 05:44:37 PM »
Shame Ben Weider didn't do anything about Paul Chua.

Watched by who? The system is simple...an athlte has an issue, concern, complaint, idea, etc...they come to me (or any of the reps) and say whats on their mind...we either answer their question, or take it to the brass as a general complaint/ concern without mention of specific names.  It goes from there

NaturalWonder83

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Re: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?
« Reply #217 on: October 24, 2009, 05:55:31 PM »
Its funny how your agenda is accomplished through a  "general consensus" that exists only in your mind.

btw - tamali and colt prince agreeing with you doesn't constitute a consensus.

most pros don't care what you do, seeing that your in manions pants anyway.


agreed
w

Milos_Sarcev

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Re: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?
« Reply #218 on: April 16, 2010, 07:39:24 PM »
"posing rounds" are best saved for muscleweb, muscletv etc... lets face it... not all of us move like Milos Sarcev  ;)


THX
But anyone can move like that with just a bit of practice...





















SF1900

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Re: New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?
« Reply #219 on: April 16, 2010, 07:43:19 PM »
Does this mean we won't get to see Kai Greene practically stripping on stage?  >:( >:( :( :(

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