Equal Rights or *Special Rights*

[Signifying Monkey]

Goodness gracious I can see a situation where a guy gets hit on by a homosexual man and beats his ass and then gets federally charged for it...

fuking seriously?

are you suggesting that if someone hits on you, you then have the right to beat their ass?

[peruke]

Why isn't it a Federal crime to assault us straight people?  What kind of discrimination is that?


Obama signs hate crimes bill into law


Washington (CNN) -- President Obama on Wednesday signed a law that makes it a federal crime to assault an individual because of his or her sexual orientation or gender identity.

The expanded federal hate crimes law was added to a $680 billion defense authorization bill that Obama signed at a packed White House ceremony.

Full Story:  http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/28/hate.crimes/index.html

Get someone to call you an ethnic name, etc...when someone is kicking your ass, and then it will be a hate crime.... "I am sure someone would be willing to do that for you"!!!

[tonymctones]

are you suggesting that if someone hits on you, you then have the right to beat their ass?

are you fuking stupid no, i know this is getbig and all but read my posts and discern from them i dont follow idiotic lines of thought.

What im saying is that I can see a situation like that happening...if a straight guy hits on your girl and you beat his ass is it a special kind of hate crime against heterosexuals? NO YOU JACK ASS

why is the situation i put foreward any different? one guys gay, again like the title says this isnt equal rights its special rights and follows right along with the BS PC gay movement. 

[Signifying Monkey]

Ron should rename this board "meltdowns r us"

[tonymctones]

Ron should rename this board "meltdowns r us"

LOL you should go back to the G&O if you think that persuades or humiliates ppl here...thing is on here ppl actually have vaild debates.

This is highlighted by you not responding to my previous post as you know its a valid point. You see on the Politics board ppl actually debate and its when ppl run from the debate as you are they are looked at like the loser. Meltdown comments dont work here but you can deflect and run away all you want just giving you the heads up.

[Skip8282]

skip you shouldnt be surprised bro come on gays get and seek special treatment all day long...im still waiting for my pass to go into womens locker rooms and change in there 

I guess the shock isn't so much people seeking special rights, but actually being given special rights.  An assault on a heterosexual is just as bad as an assault on a homosexual.


I understand what SM is saying, I'm just not seeing that type of prosecutorial discrimination.  Maybe 50 years ago, but not now.

BTW, you get that free pass to the women's locker rooms, PM me IMMEDIATELY!

[Signifying Monkey]

I understand what SM is saying, I'm just not seeing that type of prosecutorial discrimination.  Maybe 50 years ago, but not now.

frankly i think it's just obama and congress catering to the gay lobby... there might be a few cases where this is relevant.  But i would trust most state courts to do the right thing. 

but, there is no special right involved here.  it's not like they waived double jeopardy for people who attack gays

[OzmO]

Ozmo may have been saying that because I'm a Federal employee, I'm not sure.

But, I think Hugo's right.  I don't know of any cases where somebody got a free walk just because they assaulted a gay person.  If it's going on, then the state needs to step in and go after both the prosecutor and the assailant.

HAHAHAH  what?  Why would I think you are a federal employee and why would i care?  I'm not the paranoid type.  

Lemme explain what I'm saying:

Washington (CNN) -- President Obama on Wednesday signed a law that makes it a federal crime to assault an individual because of his or her sexual orientation or gender identity.

the way i read this is that if you assault someone because they are GAY or STRAIGHT or MALE or FEMALE or SHE MALE or HE MALE or WOMAN MALE man child with benefits....

Then it's a federal offense.

You asked:

Why isn't it a Federal crime to assault us straight people?  What kind of discrimination is that?

That's why I said "It is" a federal crime to assault someone because they are straight.

Personally I think it's overkill, but i think they are doing it to discourage assault based on sexual orientation.  

I don't really care, because i wouldn't ever beat up someone because they are cross dressing whore.

[OzmO]

the idea is that there will be more local pressure on the DA to do the right thing with the straight guy... maybe not as much with the gay guy

so, yes, all crimes are not created equal

and, ozmo, it doesn't apply to everyone.  if mentally unbalanced hugo chavez attacked you in one of his periodic frenzies... hope your local DA takes the case, because that's the only justice you're going to get.  unless chavez took you across state lines for the "extraterrestrials" to do "experiments" on you

REad the above post.  It does apply to everyone.  At least that's the way it reads to me.  If you beat someone up because they are straight then it can be considered a federal offense.  I hope you are smart enough not to ever do that and find a viable reason other than the fact he's straight to kick his ass.
 

[Signifying Monkey]

HAHAHAH  what?  Why would I think you are a federal employee and why would i care?  I'm not the paranoid type.  

Lemme explain what I'm saying:

the way i read this is that if you assault someone because they are GAY or STRAIGHT or MALE or FEMALE or SHE MALE or HE MALE or WOMAN MALE man child with benefits....

Then it's a federal offense.

You asked:

That's why I said "It is" a federal crime to assault someone because they are straight.

Personally I think it's overkill, but i think they are doing it to discourage assault based on sexual orientation.  

I don't really care, because i wouldn't ever beat up someone because they are cross dressing whore.

assuming you are a straight white male, it would not be a federal crime to beat your ass

[Hugo Chavez]

Huge "Mentally Unstable" Chavez, did I say somewhere that I think we need federal criminal law? I never endorsed it, just explained the reasoning behind it....  unfortunately, you're too mentally fucked up to distinguish between endorsement and explanation.  

Here are some suggestions for you.  Sleep normal hours, log off getbig once in a while and pay more attention to your wife and kids

read the rules.  if you can't leave people's family out our your trolling you don't need to post here.  That's the only warning i'll give you on that. 

2nd where the hell did I ask a question that needed your explanation?  I didn't fool.  We already have hate crime laws and they work, assualts are already prossecuted and you can't find any examples where they haven't been.  So my question was why do we need this add on.  Nowhere does what I asked suggest a lack of understanding between federal/state/local law. you're just trolling and if that's all you're here for, you're on the wrong board for that.

[tonymctones]

frankly i think it's just obama and congress catering to the gay lobby... there might be a few cases where this is relevant.  But i would trust most state courts to do the right thing.  

but, there is no special right involved here.  it's not like they waived double jeopardy for people who attack gays

I agree that there will probably be a limited number of cases in which this comes into play but thats not the point. The point is the govt is supposed to create a level playing field as the laws apply to its constituents. They however walk the line in these types of legislation and even though the legislators may not intend for a law to be used a certain way you have to know that it can and probably sooner or later will create a "special right" situation.

You should not pass legislation that could lead to special rights even if they werent meant to allowing gays to marry is a "special rights", allowing gays into same sex locker rooms is "special rights", this legislation will lead to judgements that normally would be simple assault but b/c of it will be a hate crime. I wouldnt call this special rights but it is special treatment to say the least.

[OzmO]

assuming you are a straight white male, it would not be a federal crime to beat your ass

read it again:

Washington (CNN) -- President Obama on Wednesday signed a law that makes it a federal crime to assault an individual because of his or her sexual orientation or gender identity.

It doesn't say "because they are gay"

Let's say, just for example, this straight guy really pissed you off because he said the dress you are wearing makes you look fat and said if you were straight you wouldn't be wearing dresses.  And then you took your coach purse and beat him to death yelling "fuck you straight people".  

You be charged with murder AND a hate crime.

[Signifying Monkey]

read the rules.  if you can't leave people's family out our your trolling you don't need to post here.  That's the only warning i'll give you on that. 

2nd where the hell did I ask a question that needed your explanation?  I didn't fool.  We already have hate crime laws and they work, assualts are already prossecuted and you can't find any examples where they haven't been.  So my question was why do we need this add on.  Nowhere does what I asked suggest a lack of understanding between federal/state/local law. you're just trolling and if that's all you're here for, you're on the wrong board for that.

you're an idiot. how the hell did you become moderator of a politics board if you don't even understand basic concepts of how the law works?

[Signifying Monkey]

read it again:

Washington (CNN) -- President Obama on Wednesday signed a law that makes it a federal crime to assault an individual because of his or her sexual orientation or gender identity.

It doesn't say "because they are gay"

Let's say, just for example, this straight guy really pissed you off because he said the dress you are wearing makes you look fat and said if you were straight you wouldn't be wearing dresses.  And then you took your coach purse and beat him to death yelling "fuck you straight people".  

You be charged with murder AND a hate crime.

fair enough. I missed the "fuck you straight people" part

[tonymctones]

Here is the bottom line....

Is assualt on one person worse then assualt on another for any reason?

assualt is assualt and its illegal

I think SM is right and this is just obama playing towards his base.

[OzmO]

Here is the bottom line....

Is assualt on one person worse then assualt on another for any reason?

assualt is assualt and its illegal

I think SM is right and this is just obama playing towards his base.

Really Obama playing politics?  What nerve.

The reality is however, hate crime laws are designed to discourage violence and politicians lap it up for their own purposes all the time.   

Who cares anyway?   

[Hugo Chavez]

you're an idiot. how the hell did you become moderator of a politics board if you don't even understand basic concepts of how the law works?

  great, I can clearly see how I don't have a basic understanding of the law.  It's a good thing I can read the invisible type where you show that   nice self owning.

[Signifying Monkey]

I agree that there will probably be a limited number of cases in which this comes into play but thats not the point. The point is the govt is supposed to create a level playing field as the laws apply to its constituents. They however walk the line in these types of legislation and even though the legislators may not intend for a law to be used a certain way you have to know that it can and probably sooner or later will create a "special right" situation.

You should not pass legislation that could lead to special rights even if they werent meant to allowing gays to marry is a "special rights", allowing gays into same sex locker rooms is "special rights", this legislation will lead to judgements that normally would be simple assault but b/c of it will be a hate crime. I wouldnt call this special rights but it is special treatment to say the least.

I'm still not seeing how it creates a special right.  I'm assuming the only way an AUSA gets it is if the DA doesn't take it.  And this legislation can't constitutionally allow AUSAs or DAs to make special exceptions for gays.  If there's evidence to suggest that a crime occurred, then hopefully the DA will bring charges and there's no need for the AUSA. Of course, the DA might defer to the AUSA because the latter case could impose a stiffer sentence  

There might be different sentencing guidelines for hate crimes (which are a federal creature for the most part), but if people are kicking the shit out of other people just for being gay, then maybe they should serve some extra time

[Skip8282]

I'm still not seeing how it creates a special right.  the only way an AUSA gets it is if the DA doesn't take it.  And this legislation doesn't allow AUSAs or DAs to make special exceptions for gays.  If there's evidence to suggest that a crime occurred, then hopefully the DA will bring charges. 

There might be different sentencing guidelines for hate crimes (which are a federal creature for the most part), but if people are kicking the shit out of other people just for being gay, then maybe they should serve some extra time

Alright, that's a fair criticism.  Perhaps I should have said, "special treatment".

[tonymctones]

Really Obama playing politics?  What nerve.

The reality is however, hate crime laws are designed to discourage violence and politicians lap it up for their own purposes all the time.   

Who cares anyway?   

LOL you doubt OZ that some savy DA will in a liberal area will try and charge somebody who really wasnt trying to commit a hate crime under this?

I understand why hate crimes are in place but the fact is assault is assault

I care OZ b/c its more appeasement to the liberal gay movement which is horseshit...ppl need a good dose of reality from time to time and by pandering to these fucktards you simply empower them.

[tonymctones]

I'm still not seeing how it creates a special right.  I'm assuming the only way an AUSA gets it is if the DA doesn't take it.  And this legislation can't constitutionally allow AUSAs or DAs to make special exceptions for gays.  If there's evidence to suggest that a crime occurred, then hopefully the DA will bring charges and there's no need for the AUSA. Of course, the DA might defer to the AUSA because the latter case could impose a stiffer sentence  

There might be different sentencing guidelines for hate crimes (which are a federal creature for the most part), but if people are kicking the shit out of other people just for being gay, then maybe they should serve some extra time

Like i said its more special treatment...

but go back to my example of the gay guy hitting on a man, you really think that person would be prosecuted under a hate crime?

now if the man was beating up a straight man who hit on his women, would he be prosecuted under a hate crime?

you see the difference? Like i said i doubt legislators intend for these things to have some of the consequences they have but they law is supposed to create a level playing field. It is not supposed to give special treatment to certain individuals.

[Signifying Monkey]

I understand why hate crimes are in place but the fact is assault is assault

i tend to agree, but i'm not going to lose any sleep over a gay-basher or some other socio/psychopath serving a couple extra years

[tonymctones]

i tend to agree, but i'm not going to lose any sleep over a gay-basher or some other socio/psychopath serving a couple extra years

I agree but I seriously doubt that there will be one gay person prosecuted under this and you know it. There will however be straight ppl who probably shouldnt be prosecuted under this who are.

[Skip8282]

i tend to agree, but i'm not going to lose any sleep over a gay-basher or some other socio/psychopath serving a couple extra years

That's fine, but at what point do we draw the line?  Should nerds get special treatment?  Chess players?  Albinos?  Mentally retarded?  People with freckles?

When we start giving special treatment to one group, the slope just becomes more and more slippery.