Author Topic: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!  (Read 2678 times)

George Whorewell

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2009, 12:32:09 PM »
Have you been down to Australia, NZ or the Antaractic? The rates of skin cancer are higher, burn times are higher and Antarctica is facing the suns heat through very thin ozone.  This is causing the ice there to melt, once enough ice melt water fills the ocean not only do tides rise (as we see with some islands in the south pacific facing a complete lack of land in years to come) but the overall temp drops and it will slow the oceans currents thus plunging us into an ice age.  Ice ages have occurred naturally and throughout the earths life cycle but not due to carbon and CFC emissions causing the ozone to deplete (unless dinosaurs drove cars).  This is something man made.  It's quite on the cards we may have been heading towards another ice age cycle soon or that a volcano could explode sending enough debris to drive down temperatures but the continued emitting of c02 is certainly bringing us closer and it's by mans hand this time not natures. 

I have a two part question

(1)Have you been to any of those places--- And has any human being (save scientists or film crews) "been" to the Antarctic?

(2) Do you seriously believe that there is going to be another ice age "soon"? Or by soon, do you mean its possible that if things persist as they have  been, it may be in another 10 thousand years or so?

kcballer

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2009, 01:42:46 PM »
The burn is from the UV rays, they would be getting through because of the thinner ozone, correct, but I don't know if that relates to warming...
The point is that some of the previous partial consensus is based on fixed data (or data that disagreed being thrown out).  There are hundreds of prominent scientists and climatologists that disagree with the man made global warming premise.  The number of scientists disagreeing has been increasing.

the sun rays that get through and cause a higher risk of skin cancer also cause the ice in Antarctica to melt at a faster rate
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kcballer

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2009, 01:46:02 PM »
I have a two part question

(1)Have you been to any of those places--- And has any human being (save scientists or film crews) "been" to the Antarctic?

(2) Do you seriously believe that there is going to be another ice age "soon"? Or by soon, do you mean its possible that if things persist as they have  been, it may be in another 10 thousand years or so?


I have spent extensive time in both Australia and New Zealand.  I have been to Antarctica on a cruise believe it or not but it wasn't like i spent a huge amount of time there.  By soon i mean there could be 1-2 degree changes in our children's lifetime which would be devastating for a planet so finely balanced.   
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tonymctones

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2009, 02:00:59 PM »
I have spent extensive time in both Australia and New Zealand.  I have been to Antarctica on a cruise believe it or not but it wasn't like i spent a huge amount of time there.  By soon i mean there could be 1-2 degree changes in our children's lifetime which would be devastating for a planet so finely balanced.   
how is ice melting that is already in the ocean going to raise the level of water?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2009, 02:16:50 PM »
I have spent extensive time in both Australia and New Zealand.  I have been to Antarctica on a cruise believe it or not but it wasn't like i spent a huge amount of time there.  By soon i mean there could be 1-2 degree changes in our children's lifetime which would be devastating for a planet so finely balanced.   

What year did we have the correct temprature in KC?

kcballer

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2009, 02:54:31 PM »
how is ice melting that is already in the ocean going to raise the level of water?

Did you really just ask that? Okay go fill a glass with water, put ice cubes in it and see what happens when it melts....then answer your question yourself.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2009, 03:00:55 PM »
Did you really just ask that? Okay go fill a glass with water, put ice cubes in it and see what happens when it melts....then answer your question yourself.

I'm dead serious.  All evidence shows we have been cooling for ten years.  So when was the right temprature and what is the proper temp and how do we know that our curtailing our vehicle usage will make any difference whatsoever? 

haider

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2009, 04:18:04 PM »
The question posed by tony is actually a very good one.

Ice is LESS dense than water! The trick to this is that not all of the volume taken by ice is IN water, there is some floating above the surface. So when the icebergs starts to melt it would add about a 1/7 or 1/10 of a fraction more to the volume.

The same amount of ice actually takes up less volume than liquid water.
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Skip8282

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2009, 04:26:59 PM »
Did you really just ask that? Okay go fill a glass with water, put ice cubes in it and see what happens when it melts....then answer your question yourself.


Uh...you might want to re-read his question.

The real experiment is to fill up a glass of water with ice, mark the level, and tomorrow after the ice has melted, check the level again.  I think you'll find a nominal difference.

It's the ice resting on land which melts into the ocean that's the real issue for rising sea levels.

tonymctones

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2009, 04:58:29 PM »
The question posed by tony is actually a very good one.

Ice is LESS dense than water! The trick to this is that not all of the volume taken by ice is IN water, there is some floating above the surface. So when the icebergs starts to melt it would add about a 1/7 or 1/10 of a fraction more to the volume.

The same amount of ice actually takes up less volume than liquid water.
but more of the iceburg is below the water so the melting of an ice burg would actually cause the water to drop

Im sure there is a scientifict explaniation for this i just wanted to make KC look like jack ass  ;D Mission accomplished

tonymctones

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2009, 04:59:23 PM »
Did you really just ask that? Okay go fill a glass with water, put ice cubes in it and see what happens when it melts....then answer your question yourself.
missed science class i guess?  ;)

haider

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2009, 05:02:22 PM »
but more of the iceburg is below the water so the melting of an ice burg would actually cause the water to drop
Yes there is more of it under the water, but there is "extra" volume that is above the surface. The melting of that is what causes the rise in sea levels, because that "extra" is part of the waters now.
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ToxicAvenger

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2009, 05:23:15 PM »
guys..google. Ice Sheets on the SOUTH POLE...

the ice sheets there r actually growing
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Kazan

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2009, 06:24:24 PM »
Yes there is more of it under the water, but there is "extra" volume that is above the surface. The melting of that is what causes the rise in sea levels, because that "extra" is part of the waters now.

Well thats all fine and dandy, but where did the water come from that made the ice? Wasn't the water already there? So how is melting going to create more water?
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haider

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2009, 07:22:37 PM »
Well thats all fine and dandy, but where did the water come from that made the ice? Wasn't the water already there? So how is melting going to create more water?
#1. Water is not "created". It melts from the ice into a liquid state, and it is the liquid state of water that is troublesome for us.

#2. Water levels certainly have not been constant in the earth's history. So this fluctuation would not be a unique event... the trouble is that if we're responsible for it then its in our own interest to stop it.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2009, 06:23:16 AM »
#1. Water is not "created". It melts from the ice into a liquid state, and it is the liquid state of water that is troublesome for us.

#2. Water levels certainly have not been constant in the earth's history. So this fluctuation would not be a unique event... the trouble is that if we're responsible for it then its in our own interest to stop it.

How do we even know if our efforts will work? 

This whole thing is a complete folly.  Watch this and grasp the concepts.  The Green movement is truly delusional. 


Kazan

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2009, 08:18:46 AM »
#1. Water is not "created". It melts from the ice into a liquid state, and it is the liquid state of water that is troublesome for us.

#2. Water levels certainly have not been constant in the earth's history. So this fluctuation would not be a unique event... the trouble is that if we're responsible for it then its in our own interest to stop it.

#1 thats funny I always thought that two hydrogen atoms covalently bonded to a single oxygen atom made water, so your saying that it starts as ice and melts and we get water?

#2 That is the problem, scientist don't know, hell they are finding whale skeletons in the middle of the desert. So what does that mean? Mother nature is going to do what she does and there is nothing man can do about it. Some times we need to take a step back and realize how insignificant man really is in the grand scheme of things
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ToxicAvenger

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2009, 09:42:27 AM »
I believe in climate change...like perodic cycles...el-nenio (sp?)...the 4 seasons ..etc

i dont believe in global warming
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shootfighter1

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2009, 11:22:07 AM »
ultraviolet rays don't directly cause warming, they have other effects (DNA damage,etc).  Trapping of gases is more related to the theory of warming, not UV rays.
I think we need more compelling evidence that man made CO2 is having a significant effect.  There is no doubt the earth has actually cooled in the last 10-15yrs.  Temperature cycles are probably mostly related to the sun's energy and the interaction with the oceans.
If we can prove without real doubt that man made CO2 is accelerating warming, I'd be on board with SOME of this...but there is too much debate and political agenda/money making with global warming which has skewed some of the science.  We should step back and have independent scientific communities debate this out impartially. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2009, 12:10:11 PM »
Not only that Shoot, lets say that Al Gore is correct about warming etc, how do we know that our sending trillions of dollars to combat this problem is going to result in a solution to the problem?   

haider

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Re: Al Gore just canceled trip & speech at Copenhagen!
« Reply #45 on: December 05, 2009, 01:42:22 PM »
How do we even know if our efforts will work? 

This whole thing is a complete folly.  Watch this and grasp the concepts.  The Green movement is truly delusional. 


First of all, I'm not an advocate of the 'pro-green' movement. I was merely trying to explain why sea levels rise as the polar ice caps melt. I'm not taking any sides on the issue.

What Carlin is arguing in the video is pointless- ofcourse the planet isn't going anywhere. But come on, human beings have advanced enough techonolgically AND in numbers so we're able to affect the environment significantly (i.e. in ways that affect us and other creatures).

Nuclear bomb anyone? Soil erosion? Deforrestation? Water pollution? Combine human ingenuity (+ stupidity, double edged sword) with 7 billion people and there's potential for disaster.  Any arguments against this are severely outdated IMO. The global warming issue is more complex, however, and the solutions to it are inevitably tied with global economics. So like you said, I agree that we should assess properly the situation as well as our own ability to solve it before we make major moves.
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